Wedge Bounce and Grind: What it is and Why it Matters
Posted June 18th, 2007 by Jack Waddell
Players preparing for this year's U.S. Open made a rush on the equipment vans to come up with wedges with little bounce and fresh grooves. Here's why.
As we saw this weekend, Oakmont Country Club proved itself capable of growing some of the toughest, most gnarly, luscious grass this side of Kentucky. So while some are calling Oakmont the true victor this year, I think it might have been modern agronomy that really won.
To deal with the combination of deep, thick rough as well as the extremely tight lies on fairways and in the runoff areas around some greens, players had to resort to wedges that could more easily cut through the thick stuff and not bounce off the tightly mowed turf and blade the ball (as happened to Tiger at the third hole Sunday).
Many opted to use wedges with less bounce and a grind that produced a sharper leading edge. Here's what that means and why you might consider doing the same depending on the courses you play.
Bounce
When Gene Sarazen soldered a flange to the bottom of his niblick to create the first sand wedge, he was creating what we now call bounce. Bounce is the angle of the sole measured against a horizontal line (the ground) when the club is in the address position and the shaft is vertical.
The more bounce there is, the higher the leading edge is off the ground when the club is held in its square position. It's expressed in degrees and really matters most in higher lofted clubs. A set of irons might have one degree of bounce in the 3-iron that gradually increases to seven or eight degrees in the pitching wedge.
Gap and lob wedges generally carry six to eight degrees of bounce while sand wedges usually have somewhere between 12 and 14 degrees of bounce. That's because the more bounce there is, the more the bottom of the club acts like the bow of a boat to prevent the club from digging into the ground or the sand.
That wonderful "thump" you hear when a pro hits a sand shot is the sound of the bounce on the sole of the club making the first contact with the sand and not the leading edge digging in.
Grind
Bounce is pretty easy to see and understand (and we have a little more here if you'd really like to know more). But things get tricky once you move a wedge from its normal address position. Generally speaking, opening the blade presents more bounce, closing it down less bounce.
To alter and fine-tune that dynamic, we come to the "grind." And here we have to address two more terms: radius and camber. Radius is the gradual curve of the leading edge as you look down at the head in the address position. Camber is the curve of the sole from the leading to trailing edge.
Many "players" irons in the past like old Hogans and MacGregors were designed with a very straight leading edge. But today, most irons have a slight radius that makes them a little friendlier out of rough and tighter lies.
When it comes to camber, a lot of pros will grind a little off the leading and trailing edges of iron soles to create a "rounder" shape that cuts down on drag and reduces bounce.
Grinding the sole of wedges has become something of an art form that people like Bob Vokey at Titleist have popularized and perfected. I won't pretend to understand all the variations they make available to touring pros, but I do know it can matter greatly to skilled players.
Some like the sole ground down near the heel so that when they lay the club open the bounce doesn't increase as much. Some want a little more radius so the club face looks closer to the ball.
This illustration from the Eidolon web site is a good one to show not just their proprietary "V-Sole" grind, but the difference between low and high bounce wedges.
Grind can get so creative it can be patented. Eidolon Golf is a small specialty wedge manufacturer that's come up with a grind they call a V-Sole. Basically the main part of the sole has a low bounce while the leading ¼" of the sole has a very aggressive bounce so the leading edge can't dig into turf. Perhaps one of these days we can review them for you.
Making Choices
Fortunately, we today have many, many more choices in wedges we can buy off the rack than even just a few years ago. Even better, the leading wedge makers like Titleist, Cleveland, and even Callaway are making multiple lofts available with different bounces.
I have two 58° Vokey spin-milled wedges, one with 8° bounce, one with 12°. I use the 8° at my home course because of the firm sand in the bunkers. When I travel to a course with more powdery sand, the 12° goes in the bag. Interestingly, the grind and sole width on the two wedges is different.
Course and condition specific wedges may be a strategy you want to consider. Tight lies, hard turf, and firm bunkers suggest low bounce wedges. Soft turf, fluffy lies, and soft sand call for more bounce.
In the End…
I doubt we'll ever know what the bounce or grind was on the wedge Tiger used on Oakmont's third hole yesterday. But knowing the result, we can guess he could have used less bounce in that situation. While few of us have access to custom grinds, we can make choices in bounce to help us avoid that dreaded bladed wedge or the bunker shot where the club sticks into the sand.
Feedback
We'd love to hear from you! Comment below or join the forum.
Expressed opinions are not necessarily the opinions shared by others on The Sand Trap or The Sand Trap itself.
Posted 18 Jun 2007 at 7:56pm #
Thank you for a very informative article. I've been very frustrated sculling (blading) a number of my approaches from the fairway with my gap wedge. The medium bounce on my CG-10 may be the culprit. I'll look into it..Thanks again
Posted 19 Jun 2007 at 1:04am #
"I use the 8° at my home course because of the firm sand in the bunkers. When I travel to a course with more powdery sand, the 12° goes in the bag."
I started carrying 4 wedges (46* PW, 50.08 Gap, 54.14 Sand, 58.08 Lob) because it gives me the right option no matter what lie I have. And, I have noticed that I can encounter firm sand and soft sand, tight lies and fluffy lies on the same course on the same day.
Posted 19 Jun 2007 at 9:02am #
One Wedge you might want to throw in there for comparison is the Solus Wedge. I was becoming very frustrated with having to spend money on multiple wedges of the same loft and different bounces and then having to guess which ones to put in your bag that day only to find out that guessed wrong. I purchased a 56º Solus hoping it would be even 1/2 as good as they advertise on TV. Turns out, it's everything they say and more. Based on my success with the 56º I also added a 61º and will soon be adding a 51º.
I have yet to find a situation where these wedges have not worked perfectly for me. Hard Pan or Soft Fairways, Firm or Fluffy Bunkers, etc. Gone are the days of Skulling it off a tight lie or digging into a fluffy bunker.
Posted 07 Jul 2007 at 3:16am #
i just recieved my vokey design 58* and 8* of bounce, do u think this bounce angle will cause more fat or flubbed chips and pitches? i hope not!
Posted 04 Oct 2007 at 2:07pm #
Very interesting, but now i am really confused. I play on a course that has very tight lies on the fairway and around the greens and the traps are very hard. I suppose very low bounce would be the answer. I have been having trouble with my cleveland 52 and 60 unless the ball is sitting up.
Posted 13 Mar 2008 at 9:11am #
I got a vokey sm54.10 and sm60.08. They are GREAT wedges, but i think the sole is too long. I used to have a vokey special grind 60V, so I'm thinking about grinding the back edge of both of the wedges. Not too much though. What do you think?
Posted 08 Apr 2008 at 9:33am #
[...] paid attention to wedge grind (for more on what bounce and grind is, we have some information here). To me, it was something I always attributed to being something only available to Tour players and [...]
Posted 11 Oct 2008 at 2:37am #
to be honest, its not the paintbrush, its the painter, catch my drift? People buy into the golf market just like they're supposed to, with their wallets open. I have a scoring avg of 73.4, I use 2 wedges, an old Walter Hagen pitching wedge, which I use for bump and run shots around the greens, and my 120 distance, and a vokey 58 degree for 90 and in, and short shots i need spin on. Get to know your equipment, stop buying things thinking it will make you better.
Painter, not the paintbrush
I can probably out drive most of you with an old persimmons driver i have, I hit it 275 on the fly
Posted 18 Oct 2008 at 8:28pm #
Hey Chuck,
Do you find yourself alone on the course a lot? it should be pretty obvious to you why no one wants to play with you.
I could wipe up any course with you. I'm a plus 4 and a PGA member. There is no need to be such an ass. Why dont you go somewhere else where no one wants to listen to you,,,,like your local driving range.
Posted 27 Oct 2008 at 12:46pm #
Ditto.
Posted 28 Oct 2008 at 2:59pm #
Looks like J's got your number Chuckie!
Posted 09 Mar 2009 at 6:01am #
reckon Chuck has a point - we focus a lot on consumption, but the primary message seems to be pretty pompous and abrasive so a useful message gets lost once the readers hackle raise.
Chuck is probably better to be playing alone and outdriving himself
Posted 09 Mar 2009 at 9:50am #
no my cousin is a tour player, so I am lucky enough to play with a lot of talent. I may not fit in with you, "plus 4" talent, but I have fun with the guys I fit in with.
Posted 13 Mar 2009 at 11:36am #
chuck said on October 11, 2008:
Well Chuck, if you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that grinds are not about purchasing equipment, they are about getting a WRXer to shape it to your swing style, typical playing conditions, and personal feel and preference.
If a painter is trying to paint a canvas portrait with a fat house painting brush, the likelihood of screwing it up becomes much more realistic. tight lies require a closer leading edge. For those of us who enjoy shooting par, grinds are a great option for revitalizing equipment.
P.S. In his prime, Bobby Jones was whacking a permission driver 230 max...
Posted 18 Mar 2009 at 4:18pm #
anyone know how to adjust bounce angle on 58 deg 8 deg bounce vokey find myself thinning the ball too much something which i never did with my ping zing 2 sw. play off 7 so can,t afford to squander shots.
Posted 04 Apr 2009 at 8:21pm #
I absolutely love reading some of these "no holds barred" comments. Apart from being positively hilarious they are very educational. Nice to know what the good golfers think. I am a bit of an equipment junkie myself so I can relate to what Chuck says - he has a good point.
Aussie Hacker
Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 10:37am #
How does the width of the sole affect the grind. Is it better if it is more narrow?
Posted 29 May 2009 at 1:58am #
I'd like to whack both of you over the skull with your permission drivers. Get back on topic. You both had valid points...
Chuck- that equipment doesn't buy a quality swing. Good point, but nobody is impressed with 275, regardless of the driver. Why don't you tell us your club head speed instead.
Besides, the real Chuck (Chuck Norris) can out drive anyone - using a toothpick.
"A" - that consistent quality ball strikers can benefit from various bounce and grind designs. points taken
But lets face it, 90% of amateur golfers spend too much money on equipment and not enough on lessons or practicing proper swing mechanics.
Posted 06 Jun 2009 at 7:59pm #
Well, 275 on the fly with an old persimmon is pretty good. Chuck - I have some old persimmon woods to sell you if you need any.
Posted 12 Aug 2009 at 10:39pm #
whoever said golf isn't competitive. Chuck, I don't golf but my 12y/o hits 210-220 and avg in the 80's from the whites maybe someday he will be as good as you.
Posted 01 Oct 2009 at 9:04am #
Nice article, sometimes we forget how much the nuance of the game makes a difference when trying to get from a 10 to a 5, and these little gems help. My only comment is that don't let the tour players be the only ones with "access" to grind. A $50 bench grinder, some safety goggles and an old wedge is the perfect mix for some trial and error grinding. Then you can make your own wedges match your swing, course and preference!!
Go make some sparks!!! and be careful
Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 10:58pm #
Never thought too much about bounce and grinds until recently when I won a taylormade 56* sandwedge z groove with 8* bounce at a local tournament. The obvious difference to my existing sandwedge is the flange width 25 mm for the existing v. 17mm for the new one. (old one has 12* bounce)WHAT a difference this has made to my short game. Now carry both in the bag. New wedge for tight lies/hard sand old one for fluffy sand and lies. Sorry Chuck I also play off a 4 and never thought I would change what has always worked but, this has made a big difference and boy, does that new wedge spin it!
Posted Yesterday at 4:58pm #
In regard to bounce angles, most better and Tour players will grind relief on the leading edge..to prevent digging and also to help self locate centerline of the ball
They will also grind relief along the leading edge from toe to heel
there are two types of bounce angles, a dynamic and a static.
A dynamic bounce angle is where the angle comes flush with the leading edge and can be a cause for fat and/or thin shots, or needing to chop your way out of the rough
A Dnamic bounce is much like a river barge that must plow its way through water via force
A Static bounce is much like the bow on a speed boat that parts the water and away from the resistance...this grind also reduces skulled, fat and/or thin shots and helps when your ball lands in a divot
A Static grind is a very versatile grind which is used more and more by Tour players..not to be confused with the static bounce angle, even though a static grind begins with a static angle.
The patented sole on Feel Golf's wedges and irons are good example of what a static grind is and what it accomplishes in all types of lie's and agronomy. Can be seen on feelgolf.net