Comments on: Is the USGA Out of Bounds?

By: Phil

Phil — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 22:18:46 +0000

Maybe we, as the majority of golfers, should ban the U.S.G.A and the R & A from interfering in our amateur competions and leave them to find ways of making the pros worse like make them wear high heels and blindfolds. Meanwhile we can just concentrate on the game instead of measuring each others grooves and checking to see if we have got the right pants on.

By: Alex

Alex — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:11:59 +0000

I definately don't understant the full depth of the new situation, but i don't think this is good for the recreational golfer (consumer) because so many of the players out there today like to use what the pros use. But what i essentialy want to know is ... will there be two categories of the market, one for the pros, and pne for the recreational golfer who doesn't care about the grooves. I think the market should be the same for everyone who plays competition or others would have an advantage over others because of the grooves they have. I think the game of golf is fine and the change is not necessary.

By: Mark Sanchez

Mark Sanchez — Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:33:38 +0000

I have played golf for over 40 years. It seems like my index has been at 9.2 like a woolly Mammoth in an ancient glacier--frozen forever! Nevertheless as an avid weekend warrior, I search like heck for the a better "groove" one more "dimple", one less dimple, a surer grip, a larger head for my driver and a truer roll from my putter. Why make my weekend a little harder? I don't get it! Is the sanctity of the game truly imperiled by square grooves? My game isn't. My playing group, mostly in 2 to 6 index range are looking for the same thing. An edge to improve their games. Something that has never, ever been offered by the USGA who ought to stick with tricking up to 19th century golf courses to embarass (sic) 21st century players like they are good at. The USGA has never regulated a better game. When Jack Nicklaus used to complain about the way "these new balls fly off the club head" back in the 80's I thought, "gee this guy must not have the right ball contract, because if he did he would still be out-driving everyone. What balls is he talking about anyway? Where can I get them?" Still the USGA didn't make the manufacturers make a shorter ball. Believe me I have been looking for those balls Nicklaus complained about ever since. I have to trust the manufacturers and I pay my money and go out and try to win my $2 Nassau! Like the old Ping Square grooves of the 80's (Tom Kite vs. Karsten Manufacturing) they ought to let the Supreme Court decide. If anyone on the higher court is carrying anything more than a 10 they will say "All golfers who have them (square grooves) can continue to play with them. Then, after I get mine, then they must never be manufactured again!

I like that.

By: Timothy D Watson

Timothy D Watson — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 06:37:28 +0000

The USGA proposed that the rule would be enforced for competition involving "expert players" in 2009. Then, in 2010, the rule would apply to all golfers regarding equipment manufactured after that date. Equipment manufactured before 2010 could be considered conforming for an "at least 10 year" period when in non-competition use. For competition use after 2010, equipment manufactured before would have to conform fully to be allowed. That is my understanding.

The transition is a little confusing and could take (at least)until January 1st, 2019 to complete. Nothing official should actually happen until 2009, but the unofficial effects started when the proposition was made public. I assume that in 2010 new equipment must be fully conforming for a proper handicap, but old equipment is allowed to have previously conforming grooves. Later (maybe 2019), I assume that previously conforming grooves will become improper for handicap with no allowances.

The following is a strange theory. When playing out of competition, players could buy old clubs just to be able to get around the new rules. Perhaps they would resharpen the grooves. With this strategy, they could get rewarded with better scores. This could continue to be possible for the nine years between 2010 and 2019. This loop-hole could increase the demand of certain old equipment by serious (though deceitful) golfers during this time and create more pressure for the new equipment to catch up again. After around 2019, that equipment would officially be unconforming and the benefits probably surpassed. That equipment (maybe a large portion made between a long period) would devalue drastically and previously classic clubs be made untasteful. This is a lot of coulds and maybes. I just find that fictional series of events interesting and darkly amusing.

By: Larry

Larry — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 03:04:18 +0000

Will the club manufacturers reap the benefi of a rule where we have to throw away our old Big Bertha Irons and buy those $900 a set new irons with conforming grooves?

By: JP Bouffard

JP Bouffard — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:44:14 +0000

Wachesaw:

You bring up an interesting point, something I am not clear on at the moment. Yes, there is a grandfather period, and the rule is likely to be initiated as a "condition of competition" only. However, I am unclear whether, for instance, posting scores for handicap purposes will be "legal" with non-conforming grooves, once the rule change goes into effect.

By: wachesawgolfer

wachesawgolfer — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:08:54 +0000

The good news, in any event, is the Rule change applies to Tour Players, not the skilled amateurs and up. The change for the non tour is to be grandfathered in over many years, maybe nine if memory serves. Most everyone will replace their irons within that time and as stated, most amateurs will not notice much difference (only because we are skilled enough to avoid high roughs...in our dreams).

By: Mark

Mark — Mon, 03 Sep 2007 18:06:11 +0000

lots of good points here which i don't want to repeat, but one that no one has mentioned.

Since this is a rule which predominantly affects pro players, theoretically, this is an issue which should be managed by the PGA, not the USGA. The PGA should be the group optimizing the pro game and the USGA should should working for the recreational golfer.

Problem is, the PGA is run by the players who don't want hard setups and want very low scores. The PGA will never do anything that prevents low scores.

In a way, the real issue here is do you want a 2-tiered system of rules-- one for pros and one for amateur golfers?

As a result, you will likely have rules that have inconsistant enforcement and create more confusion than anything else. (like the GPS range finder rule does right now).

By: Erik J. Barzeski

Erik J. Barzeski — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:53:42 +0000

JP Bouffard said on September 1, 2007:

How can you be sure?

I can be as sure as you can, which is exactly my point. You're making a lot of statements that you simply can't back up or that you've arrived at by specious (at best) means.

By: JP Bouffard

JP Bouffard — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:19:56 +0000

Erik J. Barzeski said on August 30, 2007:

It has nothing to do with "ego-fueled compulsion" and I think it's somewhat silly to second-guess the reasoning the USGA has given.

How can you be sure? And I don't think it's "silly" at all to second guess their reasoning. Every golfer has the right to question whether a change in the rules is reasonable or justified.

I understand what the USGA believes is happening with elite players using U-grooves, and I understand how the research supports their claims. What I am questioning is whether this issue requires any action at all, and whether their intended action is really good for the game.