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	<title>Comments on: Palmer, Nicklaus Speak Out Against Augusta Alterations</title>
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	<description>Golf News, Reviews, and Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Doug Carey</title>
		<link>http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations#comment-2287</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesandtrap.com/uncategorized/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations/#comment-2287</guid>
		<description>I think they are going about it the wrong way. By making the course(s) longer, you are playing right into the hands of the big hitters and eliminating the others. Augusta seems to be more concerned about the &quot;winning score&quot; and someone shooting low scores at &quot;Augusta National&quot; than making the tournament more competitive. So what if -20 wins or even -30. If the second place winner shoots -19 or -29, the winning margin is only 1 stroke. Augusta (and other courses too) should do the total opposite of what they are doing. Shorten the course&#039;s and bring &quot;all&quot; of the filed into position to win instead of just a few. Make the par-3&#039;s easily reachable by everyone. Make the par 4&#039;s un-drivable by the longer hitters, but reachable by everyone in 2. Make the par 5&#039;s reachable in two by everyone with a &quot;good&quot; second shot. Does not matter if the second shot is with a 6 iron or a 3 iron. force the long hitters to hit a 3 wood off the tee instead of a driver like the shorter hitters. Make the long hitters pay by going through the fairway for pulling out that driver. Then set it up where they won&#039;t have a chance of getting to the green in two when they do. That&#039;s the way to even-out the chances for the Corey Pavin&#039;s against the Tiger Woods&#039;s. It&#039;s a lot harder to win or run away with a tournament when you have more of the field in contention.  That is more exciting to watch than looking at 2 people running away with it and no chance for anyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they are going about it the wrong way. By making the course(s) longer, you are playing right into the hands of the big hitters and eliminating the others. Augusta seems to be more concerned about the "winning score" and someone shooting low scores at "Augusta National" than making the tournament more competitive. So what if -20 wins or even -30. If the second place winner shoots -19 or -29, the winning margin is only 1 stroke. Augusta (and other courses too) should do the total opposite of what they are doing. Shorten the course's and bring "all" of the filed into position to win instead of just a few. Make the par-3's easily reachable by everyone. Make the par 4's un-drivable by the longer hitters, but reachable by everyone in 2. Make the par 5's reachable in two by everyone with a "good" second shot. Does not matter if the second shot is with a 6 iron or a 3 iron. force the long hitters to hit a 3 wood off the tee instead of a driver like the shorter hitters. Make the long hitters pay by going through the fairway for pulling out that driver. Then set it up where they won't have a chance of getting to the green in two when they do. That's the way to even-out the chances for the Corey Pavin's against the Tiger Woods's. It's a lot harder to win or run away with a tournament when you have more of the field in contention.  That is more exciting to watch than looking at 2 people running away with it and no chance for anyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Greenwald</title>
		<link>http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations#comment-2286</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Greenwald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2006 01:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesandtrap.com/uncategorized/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations/#comment-2286</guid>
		<description>I agree completely with Bryan that they have made the course more &quot;Tiger-friendly&quot; by lengthening the course.  This is why I believe a long hitter has a great advantage at Augusta.  Long hitters will not win every time, but they should win 75 - 80% of the time.

Scoring at Augusta has not gone down for the following reasons.  1) Course has severely sloped greens that are fast and 2) Course is now long by any standard.  

You combine these two factors and scores will stay high.  Unfortunately, Augusta had to lengthen some of the holes for players to be using the same clubs Bobby J would have used in his heyday, so scoring records would not be jeopardized.  It&#039;s a shame when people are using 7 irons and above to hit a Par 5 in 2.  Augusta was forced to add length.

Gee I wonder why Tiger ranked 33rd in putts per green hit in regulation and still won? His Iron play was good, his putting was solid, but it helps to have 4 relatively easy holes (Par 5&#039;s) due to his distance and have probably 4 holes where he is hitting wedge into. That is an advantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree completely with Bryan that they have made the course more "Tiger-friendly" by lengthening the course.  This is why I believe a long hitter has a great advantage at Augusta.  Long hitters will not win every time, but they should win 75 - 80% of the time.</p>
<p>Scoring at Augusta has not gone down for the following reasons.  1) Course has severely sloped greens that are fast and 2) Course is now long by any standard.  </p>
<p>You combine these two factors and scores will stay high.  Unfortunately, Augusta had to lengthen some of the holes for players to be using the same clubs Bobby J would have used in his heyday, so scoring records would not be jeopardized.  It's a shame when people are using 7 irons and above to hit a Par 5 in 2.  Augusta was forced to add length.</p>
<p>Gee I wonder why Tiger ranked 33rd in putts per green hit in regulation and still won? His Iron play was good, his putting was solid, but it helps to have 4 relatively easy holes (Par 5's) due to his distance and have probably 4 holes where he is hitting wedge into. That is an advantage.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik J. Barzeski</title>
		<link>http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations#comment-2285</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik J. Barzeski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesandtrap.com/uncategorized/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations/#comment-2285</guid>
		<description>In 2004, the average score was in fact 73.97. Last year it wasn&#039;t even that good - Tiger and DiMarco finished seven shots ahead of the guys in third place.

If you scroll down in &lt;a href=&quot;http://thesandtrap.com/courses/augusta_to_be_lengthened.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt; you&#039;ll find a small graph showing the scoring average versus the yardage back to 1940.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 2004, the average score was in fact 73.97. Last year it wasn't even that good - Tiger and DiMarco finished seven shots ahead of the guys in third place.</p>
<p>If you scroll down in <a  href="http://thesandtrap.com/courses/augusta_to_be_lengthened.php">this article</a> you'll find a small graph showing the scoring average versus the yardage back to 1940.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations#comment-2284</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesandtrap.com/uncategorized/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations/#comment-2284</guid>
		<description>Just some food for thought, but after Tiger destroyed the golf course in 1997, wasn&#039;t some of the &quot;course changes&quot; factored into trying to Tiger Proof the golf course?

All they did, in my opinion, is just make it more Tiger Friendly.

The truth is, Tiger can do more with a golf ball with his strength, accuracy, talent, then the PGA Tour combined, so by lengthening a golf course, all you are doing is making it THAT much harder for another player to do well on it. I realize Tiger hasn&#039;t won the tournament everyyear, but 4 Master Victories in 10 years isn&#039;t too damn shabby if you ask me.

The length a player hits a ball nowadays is unreal, but look at the scoring average. The scoring average compared to the 1960&#039;s really hasn&#039;t lowered THAT much. We might have all this advanced technology, players that can shoot 59, hit the ball 400 yards, etc... but golf still requires consistency and it&#039;s not like we are seeing the scoring average on tour hit 65. It is still up in the high 60&#039;s. Heck, Tiger&#039;s scoring average in the 200&#039;s was like 68.7 or something. Every year after that has been more in the 69&#039;s...

Based on a par 72 status, which MOST golf courses tend to be, that is roughly 3 under par give or take. Records might be getting broken every year, etc... but the competition is still there.

Sorry, I am probably rambling now :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just some food for thought, but after Tiger destroyed the golf course in 1997, wasn't some of the "course changes" factored into trying to Tiger Proof the golf course?</p>
<p>All they did, in my opinion, is just make it more Tiger Friendly.</p>
<p>The truth is, Tiger can do more with a golf ball with his strength, accuracy, talent, then the PGA Tour combined, so by lengthening a golf course, all you are doing is making it THAT much harder for another player to do well on it. I realize Tiger hasn't won the tournament everyyear, but 4 Master Victories in 10 years isn't too damn shabby if you ask me.</p>
<p>The length a player hits a ball nowadays is unreal, but look at the scoring average. The scoring average compared to the 1960's really hasn't lowered THAT much. We might have all this advanced technology, players that can shoot 59, hit the ball 400 yards, etc... but golf still requires consistency and it's not like we are seeing the scoring average on tour hit 65. It is still up in the high 60's. Heck, Tiger's scoring average in the 200's was like 68.7 or something. Every year after that has been more in the 69's...</p>
<p>Based on a par 72 status, which MOST golf courses tend to be, that is roughly 3 under par give or take. Records might be getting broken every year, etc... but the competition is still there.</p>
<p>Sorry, I am probably rambling now <img src='http://thesandtrap.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andy Greenwald</title>
		<link>http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations#comment-2283</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Greenwald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 00:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesandtrap.com/uncategorized/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations/#comment-2283</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll only refer you to the videos and count how many times Arnie or Jack talk about length. Arnie focus&#039;s on the 7th hole which was lengthened from 360 to 450.  He did not mention any other significant change on that hole, but length.

Listen to Jaime Diaz rebuttal and count how many times he mentions length.

See if you can follow the bouncing ball.  The golf digest article focus&#039;s on the length of holes and the course (520 yards since Tiger won in 1997).

Here&#039;s my wager (if you are willing to accept it).  The winner of the Masters will average over 300+ yards on their drives and will be considered on the long side.  

I appreciate David&#039;s article, but I just disagree with his analysis.  Unfortunately, my belief is that distance is slightly more emphasized in today&#039;s game.  Unless we do something, this trend will continue.

You need to be a long hitter today to win most Major events.  You also need to be a good putter.  That has not changed (thankfully).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'll only refer you to the videos and count how many times Arnie or Jack talk about length. Arnie focus's on the 7th hole which was lengthened from 360 to 450.  He did not mention any other significant change on that hole, but length.</p>
<p>Listen to Jaime Diaz rebuttal and count how many times he mentions length.</p>
<p>See if you can follow the bouncing ball.  The golf digest article focus's on the length of holes and the course (520 yards since Tiger won in 1997).</p>
<p>Here's my wager (if you are willing to accept it).  The winner of the Masters will average over 300+ yards on their drives and will be considered on the long side.  </p>
<p>I appreciate David's article, but I just disagree with his analysis.  Unfortunately, my belief is that distance is slightly more emphasized in today's game.  Unless we do something, this trend will continue.</p>
<p>You need to be a long hitter today to win most Major events.  You also need to be a good putter.  That has not changed (thankfully).</p>
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		<title>By: Erik J. Barzeski</title>
		<link>http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations#comment-2282</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik J. Barzeski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 23:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesandtrap.com/uncategorized/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations/#comment-2282</guid>
		<description>Andy, you&#039;ve completely missed the points Jack and Arnie were trying to make. They didn&#039;t mention distance except to say that the first hole, and a few others, are now &lt;em&gt;too long&lt;/em&gt;.

Their beef is, if you&#039;d bother to read the article, that the driving choices have been taken away. The choice of which side of the fairway to hit, for example, has been removed because trees now encroach where fairway used to be.

Did you watch the videos, Andy? Read the article? Jack said that the recent changes - not the ones done in the past year - were perfect because they were hitting the same clubs in as he was during his heyday. But the recent ones are an abomination that &quot;ruins&quot; the course.

All because some guy named Hootie has his head so far up his butt about distance he can see out of his own neck hole.

We&#039;re already not comparing apples to apples. Pins are tucked much tighter than ever today, greens are smoother (and faster), and the list goes on and on.

And finally, Andy, everyone on this site is an individual and has his own opinion. Dave writes a very fact-based column that&#039;s shown that distance doesn&#039;t help you win tournaments. Hell, it doesn&#039;t even help you hit the ball closer to the hole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, you've completely missed the points Jack and Arnie were trying to make. They didn't mention distance except to say that the first hole, and a few others, are now <em>too long</em>.</p>
<p>Their beef is, if you'd bother to read the article, that the driving choices have been taken away. The choice of which side of the fairway to hit, for example, has been removed because trees now encroach where fairway used to be.</p>
<p>Did you watch the videos, Andy? Read the article? Jack said that the recent changes - not the ones done in the past year - were perfect because they were hitting the same clubs in as he was during his heyday. But the recent ones are an abomination that "ruins" the course.</p>
<p>All because some guy named Hootie has his head so far up his butt about distance he can see out of his own neck hole.</p>
<p>We're already not comparing apples to apples. Pins are tucked much tighter than ever today, greens are smoother (and faster), and the list goes on and on.</p>
<p>And finally, Andy, everyone on this site is an individual and has his own opinion. Dave writes a very fact-based column that's shown that distance doesn't help you win tournaments. Hell, it doesn't even help you hit the ball closer to the hole.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Greenwald</title>
		<link>http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations#comment-2281</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Greenwald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 18:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesandtrap.com/uncategorized/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations/#comment-2281</guid>
		<description>Nothing but distance has caused Augusta to be forced to &quot;extend&quot; the course with the changes Jack and Arnie do not like.

Augusta lengthened the Par 3 to 240 to retain the golf club that Bobby J used to hit this Par 3 in his time.  The players were using 6 and 7 irons in the recent past.

The 15th was lengthened, so Tiger and others could not hit the green with a 7 iron.  They lengthened it, so people had to think about cutting the corner and going for the green.

The 18th is now a great finishing hole, because the boys were just whaling away on the ball over the bunker on the left.  Augusta was forced to do this to retain the difficulty in the hole.

I agree that records are meant to be broken.  However, if Tiger was hitting wedge to each green in 2008 versus what Jack and Arnie were hitting during the 60&#039;s and 70&#039;s, wouldn&#039;t that take away from the new record?

I think we will not be able to compare apples to apples in the future because of these distances.  

Comparing Tiger and Jack on a course by course scoring record will not be fair.  Augusta is just trying to retain this comparison by lengthening the course, so a course record will remain intact.  

We may never see a major championship with a course less than 7000 yards again (except for the British Open).  We will probably see 8000 yard courses in our near future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing but distance has caused Augusta to be forced to "extend" the course with the changes Jack and Arnie do not like.</p>
<p>Augusta lengthened the Par 3 to 240 to retain the golf club that Bobby J used to hit this Par 3 in his time.  The players were using 6 and 7 irons in the recent past.</p>
<p>The 15th was lengthened, so Tiger and others could not hit the green with a 7 iron.  They lengthened it, so people had to think about cutting the corner and going for the green.</p>
<p>The 18th is now a great finishing hole, because the boys were just whaling away on the ball over the bunker on the left.  Augusta was forced to do this to retain the difficulty in the hole.</p>
<p>I agree that records are meant to be broken.  However, if Tiger was hitting wedge to each green in 2008 versus what Jack and Arnie were hitting during the 60's and 70's, wouldn't that take away from the new record?</p>
<p>I think we will not be able to compare apples to apples in the future because of these distances.  </p>
<p>Comparing Tiger and Jack on a course by course scoring record will not be fair.  Augusta is just trying to retain this comparison by lengthening the course, so a course record will remain intact.  </p>
<p>We may never see a major championship with a course less than 7000 yards again (except for the British Open).  We will probably see 8000 yard courses in our near future.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Gladchun</title>
		<link>http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations#comment-2280</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Gladchun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 00:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesandtrap.com/uncategorized/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations/#comment-2280</guid>
		<description>I guess I don&#039;t really understand where you&#039;re coming from. Aren&#039;t past records there to be broken? Arnie and Jack were in no way complaining that the long ball has hurt golf, they were complaining about the changes made to Augusta and how those changes have perverted the charm of the course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I don't really understand where you're coming from. Aren't past records there to be broken? Arnie and Jack were in no way complaining that the long ball has hurt golf, they were complaining about the changes made to Augusta and how those changes have perverted the charm of the course.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Greenwald</title>
		<link>http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations#comment-2279</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Greenwald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesandtrap.com/uncategorized/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations/#comment-2279</guid>
		<description>Sorry Jeff, I apologize.

I guess Erik, Dave, and Cody (fellow web site writers) have just got the best of me regarding today&#039;s golfers hitting the ball over 300 yards on a routine basis.  My comment was aimed more at your fellow web site writers lack of understanding.

These distances have hurt the integrity of the game, past records, and golf courses.  Arnie and Jack understand where this is going and the shame that it is causing golf courses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Jeff, I apologize.</p>
<p>I guess Erik, Dave, and Cody (fellow web site writers) have just got the best of me regarding today's golfers hitting the ball over 300 yards on a routine basis.  My comment was aimed more at your fellow web site writers lack of understanding.</p>
<p>These distances have hurt the integrity of the game, past records, and golf courses.  Arnie and Jack understand where this is going and the shame that it is causing golf courses.</p>
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		<title>By: Episode 015 &#124; The Sand Trap</title>
		<link>http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations#comment-2288</link>
		<dc:creator>Episode 015 &#124; The Sand Trap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesandtrap.com/uncategorized/palmer_nicklaus_speak_out_against_augusta_alterations/#comment-2288</guid>
		<description>Geoff Ogilvy, &#039;Steve&#039; Pate, Mark Hensby, Kirk Triplett? Don&#039;t worry, we&#039;ve got a fair share of Tiger Woods, Michelle Wie, Greg Norman, Davis Love III, and even Bill Clinton to tide you over this week.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff Ogilvy, 'Steve' Pate, Mark Hensby, Kirk Triplett? Don't worry, we've got a fair share of Tiger Woods, Michelle Wie, Greg Norman, Davis Love III, and even Bill Clinton to tide you over this week.</p>
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