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Titleist Tour Blog

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Titleist takes a bold step in a new direction with the AP2. Adam Scott has switched. Should you?

Titleist AP2 HeroThere have been few reviews as eagerly anticipated by Sand Trap forum members and readers as this one and our upcoming review of the Titleist AP1s. Our Bag Drop article announcing these clubs has well over 50 comments and my follow-up field test will likely reach 50 before this review is published. In the forum, people are being fitted for, buying, and asking questions about the AP2s and AP1s left and right. Titleist VP of Golf Clubs Chris McGinley feels that this is "the most technically advanced forging ever made" and adds that "demand for this iron is unprecedented in the forged category. Not since the Hogan edge has there been this much buzz and demand for a forged iron."

Titleist, always at or near the top in the "player's irons" category, has in 2008 simultaneously simplified its product lineup and broadened its target market. Though their ZB and ZM models are still available for those who like player's cavity and musclebacks, the AP1 and AP2 are intended to cover pretty much everyone from the PGA Tour golfer to the "aspiring" golfer.

This review takes a look at the Titleist Forged AP2s - the irons intended for the "skilled" player in Titleist's parlance. The "skilled" golfer is anyone with a single-digit handicap right on through to PGA Tour stars like Adam Scott. Like Scott, I've been playing musclebacks for several years due to their superior feel, tremendous workability, and stringent demands that kept my swing in check. Read on to find out what I think of Titleist's fairly radical departure from even their recent past.

Design and Technology
The AP1 and AP2 were designed by Titleist veteran Peter Gilbert, designer of almost every notable DCI iron of the past, with the guidance of Dan Stone, new head of Golf Club Research and Development. Gilbert started with a fresh slate, casting aside the well received 775s and 755s and the technology that had brought them to their current state. He looked at new materials, new shapes, and new processes and created a revolutionary pair of irons - the AP irons.

Elastomer Cushion
The elastomer cushion sits behind the clubface and tweaks the feel and sound. As seen here, it appears to be much wider than it is in reality.

Titleist describes the Forged AP2 as "advanced performance, multi-material, dual cavity, technical forged irons providing traditional solid feel, looks, and shot control for the skilled player." Uhm, yeah. Let's crack the marketing mumbo-jumbo to see what we've really got here.

The acronym "AP" stands for "Advaned Performance," and the AP2 is constructed with several materials, hence "multi-material." The AP2s are formed with a 1025 carbon steel body. Laser welded to the back and sole, a tungsten nickel box lowers the center of gravity, creating an optimal CG location low and deep in the clubhead. The lower, deeper CG results in improved launch conditions with consistent ball speed for distance control and optimal launch and spin for trajectory control. Titleist calls this a "process break through" and, in the words of Chris McGinley, says "never has a back piece with that kind of function or complicated geometry been welded to a forged body." The breakthrough is on the order of the undercut cavities employed by the likes of TaylorMade and Callaway.

An elastomer cushion and a metallic cavity plate complete the list of materials. Both of these materials soften the feel at impact, tune the sound for optimal pitch, and generally make everything feel just a bit sweeter.

AP2 Toes
The minimal offset and varying hosel lengths are apparent in this shot, as is the line between the carbon steel and the tungsten nickel box.

Titleist considers the AP2 a "dual cavity design." The first cavity is obvious: it's the top portion of the club, above the elastomer cushion and below the topline of the club. The second cavity is hidden by the tungsten nickel box. Both cavities push the weight to the perimeter, improving forgiveness on off-center shots. The lower cavity is "capped" with what Titleist bills the "central cross member." It's a metal shelf that connects the back of the cavity to the clubface, right behind the impact area, and it improves the rigidity of the rather thin clubface while acting in cooperation with the elastomer cushion to reduce face vibration.

Finally, the sole itself is optimized for better players. Though the sole is a bit wider than most good players are accustomed to, it features a relieved trailing edge and optimized bounce that seek to achieve the delicate blend between forgiveness and playability for the better golfer.

Esthetics
Forged AP2 GiantBetter players care a good bit about a club's esthetics, and to say the look of the AP2 has been the topic of many discussions would be an understatement of sizable proportions.

Whether it's the metallic insert on the back with the venetian blind look, the "silver "AP2" logo lodged in the toe of the tungsten nickel box, or simply the shock of seeing a Titleist iron with some graphical "stuff" on it, I do not know. After all, the 775 and 755 weren't exactly austere and simple in appearance, either, what with their colorful backs and aluminum bars and things.

Personally, I grew to like the looks of the AP irons, and find that they look a fair bit more handsome in person than in JPEGs on the Internet. Not that it matters much - you don't see any of the cavity back inserts or the toe decals at address. It's simply there for "bag appeal," and whether you like it or not, the AP2 is undeniably recognizable.

At address, the AP2 does have a noticeably thicker topline than the musclebacks I've been playing in prior years. The thickness is on par with other skilled player cavity backs, like the Cleveland CG Red, the TaylorMade r7 TP, and is barely thicker than even Titleist's 695.CB or their new ZB models. Additionally, the slightly thicker topline hides the back of the club, presenting a clean look at address.

The AP2s have what Titleist bills a "confidence inspiring appearance." They're contemporary, with a satin groove area framed by polished steel on the toe and heel. They feature a traditional profile and a blade/hosel junction that flows smoothly and with little offset. The hosels themself vary in length throughout the set: they're shorter in long irons to help promote launch, and longer in the short irons to help control trajectory.

The simple ferrule continues the clean look at address and matches the simple, un-stepped look of the stock Project X shafts right on through to the stock Tour Velvet grip.

Performance
Again, I've always played musclebacks for the feedback they provide. If I play a cavity back iron - even the "good golfer" cavity backs like the TaylorMade r7 TP or the Cleveland CG Red - my game and swing quickly suffer from their lack of feedback. Poor swings are rewarded with decent shots and a generic "feel," and my ballstriking suffers. I can't play the variety of shots I like to play around the golf course. After a short, subtle scoring drop, my swing suffers and my scores rise.

AP2 Backs
The backs of the clubs feature an aluminum medallion that helps fine-tune the sound and feel.

In other words, I've learned to stay away from the "good golfer" cavity backs. I need all the feedback I can get and find it critical to keeping my swing in tune.

So it was with some trepidation that I first hit the AP2s. To be honest, Titleist's ZM and ZB models seemed more up my alley. But long-time muscleback players and traditionalists like Adam Scott had made the switch to the AP2, so who was I to argue?

Nobody, that's who. Though my initial impressions were quite positive, I only came to like and appreciate the AP2 more the longer I used them.

With other clubs in this class (r7 TP, CG Red), only the worst shots transmitted enough feedback to let me know where I'd struck the ball. Contact near the center of the face (but not necessarily on the sweet spot) all tend to feel about the same and a bit dull. I needn't have worried about the AP2s, as they provide nearly all the feedback I've come to expect from my muscleback irons. Every bit of feedback is transmitted, albeit in a muted form. If you pay attention, you can discern the differences between a well-struck shot and one that just missed. I've found that virtually impossible with the others, but the AP2s excel in this area and I cannot commend them highly enough.

For those times when you find the sweet spot, contact cannot be described as buttery smooth as with a muscleback, but it's awfully close. I'm also not sure I've ever heard an iron "crack" with as much clarity and power as these do when you catch one on the sweet spot, either, but it's music to my ears. Miss it a little and, again, a muted tone of a slightly different pitch lets you know.

AP2 Irons High
The 3-, 6-, and 9-irons. Look at the 3-iron topline. When I say "thicker" topline, I mean "barely."

Feedback on mis-hits is great, but it was also nice to discover that the AP2 does not punish you severely for small mis-hits. If contact ½" towards the toe would result in your golf ball landing short and right in a bunker with, say, the Titleist 695.MB, the same strike with the AP2 will put the ball on the fringe or the front right portion of the putting green. This seems true of contact all over the face: the AP2 consistently outperforms all the musclebacks I've played and a fair number of the "good player" cavity-back irons as well.

If you're accustomed to working the ball, the AP2s will not disappoint. Though I was skeptical at first of the amount of control and workability these irons would provide, I've found that I've had to make few to no adjustments when playing shots that curve left or right or go higher in the air. These clubs do hamper my ability to hit the super-low shot, such as when playing out of trees, but this is mitigated somewhat by the Project X shaft. It's a low-spin shaft, so shots played into the wind don't need to be knocked down quite as much, limiting the number of times you'll be forced to flight the ball really low.

I had but one final concern: the wider sole. In reality, the sole plays thinner than it looks due to the trailing edge relief. Having played in wet conditions, dry conditions, from bent/poa fairways and Bermuda fairways, and from all sorts of other lies (that I'd rather not talk about), I found my concerns to be unwarranted. I can still pick the ball off of hardpan or other difficult lies. I can get down to the ball when it's nestled in the rough. I can even hit the ball just a tiny bit heavy with no real detriment. Whether I'm opening or closing the face or moving the ball up or back in my stance, I never felt that the sole was getting in the way or hampering my ability to pull off a shot, and in the case of the ever-so-slightly heavy shots, felt as though the sole provided just enough glide to move into the back of the ball without losing much clubhead speed.

AP2 Triple

One thing you may not be aware of is that the grooves on the Titleist AP1s and Forged AP2s conform to the proposed revised specifications. While I applaud Titleist for treating their customers well (you can buy these irons reasonably comfortable in the knowledge that they should meet revised rules), it did take me a little while to get used to having to deal with fliers again. Knowing how to judge a flier lie isn't a skill a lot of golfers have ever learned, but it's a skill that's fairly easy to pick up and may very well be something all golfers will be dealing with very soon.

In the end, the AP2s have what I consider to be just about the perfect blend of forgiveness, feedback, and playability. Before, my choices were muscleback clubs with lots of the feedback I craved but virtually no forgiveness or cavity-back clubs that transmitted little to no feedback to me on slight mis-hits but which rewarded those mis-hits with good results. The AP2 offers me the best of both and doesn't take away my ability to hit creative shots against the wind or to access tucked pins.

Specifications
The AP2s come with Project X shafts stock, Tour Velvet grips, and in a set of eight irons (3-PW) with the lofts and lies below. Retail pricing is about $999. They're available for both righties and lefties.

They're Titleist irons, though, so custom options abound. Righties can customize the length from +2 inches to -1 inch (lefties from +1" to -½"). Lofts can be adjusted +/- 1°, and righties can adjust the lie angle from +4° to -2° (+/- 2° for lefties).

I'm a fan of the New Decade Multicompound grips, so mine came with those. You may also opt to replace the standard Tour Velvets with Golf Pride grips like Dual Durometer, Tour Velvet Ribbed, Tour Velvet Cord, and Tour Wrap or Lamkin grips like the Crossline and Crossline Cord, or Winn grips like the Black RF or V17 AVS.

Shaft options include several in both graphite (Aldila VS Proto-T in various weights, Graphite Design YS-IRON+ w/GAT) and steel (Project X, Project X Flighted, Rifle, Nippon NS Pro, Tri-Spec, Dynalite Gold, Dynalite Gold with Sensicore, Dynamic Gold, Dynamic Gold HL, and more).

Titleist AP2 Three View

A 51° "W" Wedge is available, and eight-iron "4-W" sets are available for those who would rather not carry a 3-iron.

            Loft      Lie      Length     Swingweight      Offset
            ----      ---      ------     ------------     ------
3-iron      21°       60°      39"            D2           0.160"
6-iron      31°       62.5°    37.5"          D2           0.120"
9-iron      43°       64°      36"            D2           0.090"

Lofts of the clubs are fairly traditional. you may balk at what appears to be one degree less loft than normal on some irons, but I can assure you the tungsten nickel box lowers the CG and raises the ball flight to make up for the slightly stronger loft. Your distances should remain consistent unless your current irons "cheat" with super-strong lofts.

Overall
Titleist AP2Though Titleist has long been in an "evolutionary" phase (see the 690MB -> 695.MB -> ZM lineage), making subtle tweaks to proven designs, the AP1 and AP2 represent a revolutionary break from the old and a bold new direction for Titleist.

Revolutions do not come without risk, but this risk has paid off for Titleist. The AP2s are some of the best "skilled player" non-muscleback irons I've ever played. They offer the perfect blend of forgiveness and feedback that good golfers need. If you can get past the slightly thicker topline and you don't often need to hit a super-low shot, these clubs may very well find their way into your bag. If they do, your scores should drop, your consistency should rise, and your satisfaction could very well hit an all-time high. I know mine has.

Feedback
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25 Responses to "Titleist Forged AP2 Irons Review"

  1. Quote MeBrian Mullins
    Posted 25 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 10:30am #

    Excellent review iacas! I am planning on purchasing these irons within the next few weeks regardless of your review however you answered the few remaining questions I had about them. Keep up the good work


  2. Quote Meduffer888
    Posted 25 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 11:15am #

    Thanks for the review. I'd agree that they look much better in person than on the internet. I thought they were fugly when I first saw pictures, but after looking at them at the shop, they are nice looking.


  3. Quote MeDanzo
    Posted 25 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 11:24am #

    Erik,
    Love reading your comprehensive reviews. Keep up the great work!
    I recently hit with the AP2's and absolutely agree with you on all of your points. Being a long time fan of Titleist, I'm curious to know what you think about their move to the use Project X 5.5 shafts as opposed to the popular Dynamic Gold(S300). On the Titleist website, it lists Adam Scott using the DG shafts with his AP2's.


  4. Quote MeKankle J
    Posted 25 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 1:17pm #

    as always, an awesome review.


  5. Quote MeRobert J
    Posted 25 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 4:17pm #

    Your review is right on, the Ap2's are clean and have a great feedback on all types of shots, i recently hit the new Bridgestone J36 Cavity and Blades and while they were very sweet and responsive, they do not compare favorably with the Ap2's.....I will order my set next week...thanks again for a great and comprehensive review


  6. Quote MeShortgame85
    Posted 25 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 4:28pm #

    Excellent review. Well written and informative. I am looking forward to the AP1 review. Kudos to the Sand Trap for providing superb user reviews and kudos, as well, to Titleist for stepping a bit outside their box to design and manufacture the AP1s and the AP2s. Jon


  7. Quote Merudygu
    Posted 25 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 7:04pm #

    Great review. These are definitely on my short list to demo when I replace my W/S PI5's.


  8. Quote MeJ.P.
    Posted 25 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 7:09pm #

    Danzo said on April 25, 2008:

    I'm curious to know what you think about their move to the use Project X 5.5 shafts as opposed to the popular Dynamic Gold(S300). On the Titleist website, it lists Adam Scott using the DG shafts with his AP2's.

    I asked this same question to a Titleist fitter as we were testing these at a recent demo day. His "salesman" answer was that these irons are a tech breakthrough for Titleist and research says the average golfer believes that Project X is higher tech/newer tech than Dynamic Gold, so they went in. He added that most of their Tour staff will play the ultra-consistant DG Gold, as many do now.

    Excellent review Erik - finally a club that will replace my Mizunos! Thanks!


  9. Quote MeErik J. Barzeski
    Posted 25 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 11:33pm #

    J.P. said on April 25, 2008:

    He added that most of their Tour staff will play the ultra-consistant DG Gold, as many do now.

    I think a lot of the pros on the PGA Tour play Project X shafts, and have for quite some time. I think you got an answer from someone who wanted to sound like they perhaps knew a bit more than they truly do.


  10. Quote Mewill m.
    Posted 26 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 12:31pm #

    These AP2's are THE BEST irons I have ever played, and I have tried them all. Got fitted at hotstix for my correct shaft. The combination of correct shaft and this iron head are unbeatable for me. I am one club longer, much more accurate and my long irons are as straight and easy to hit as ANY ever. I feel completely confident. I can work the ball, hit it high, low whatever. FUN!! Thanks Titliest, I really appreciate the CEO of Fortune brands being a good golfer and pushing the company to the 21st century with this iron. I just ordered the W (gap) wedge. I have made enough money with these, that they have paid for themselves. Get ready to not be able to find these very easily, there will be a lot of demand for them. The buzz is incredible... W.


  11. Quote MeJosh
    Posted 26 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 9:11pm #

    Erik,
    Great review as always.
    What is your opinion on which iron is the most forgiving between the AP2, CGRed and R7TP?


  12. Quote MeEric
    Posted 27 Apr 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 11:24am #

    Josh,

    I am coming from the R7 TP and I can say that they are nearly identical in forgiveness, but in feel these AP2's are the REAL DEAL. They feel great. Very much a forged Titleist. Not overly soft like a Mizuno (played the MP-57's for a few weeks and the ap2's are superior).

    Looking down on these heads there is no doubt you will be hitting a good golf shot.

    There is a reason many of the titleist staffers on the PGA are moving to this club. THey don't HAVE to, but they are. Look at Adam Scott and a few others who carry the 905R driver in the 907 headcover. They won't switch because it isn't working. These irons work.

    My wife got the AP1's based on the success of the AP2 irons. Same technology with a little offset.

    Eric


  13. Quote MeRandy W
    Posted 28 Apr 2008 (2 weeks ago) at 12:07am #

    The look and makeup of these irons sound very similar to the Nike Forged CCI irons... Did anyone else pick up on that?


  14. Quote MeDave
    Posted 28 Apr 2008 (2 weeks ago) at 12:56am #

    I am, like the author, a die-hard muscleback player, afraid of letting my swing be corrupted by anything but. I hit these at the local store and liked the feel on good hits, and could definately feel the feedback difference on the not so hot shots. The sole and topline bother me, probably only due to residual "old school die hardness". If I was smart, and nobody has ever accused me of being so, I would put these in play. Still deciding, but very impressed. As usual, kudos to Titleist... p.s.; Adam Scott won the Nelson today with these, and i'm quite sure he can beat me!


  15. Quote MeMatt M
    Posted 28 Apr 2008 (2 weeks ago) at 11:04am #

    Great review. I ordered mine (4-9 iron) a couple of weeks ago as a trial replacement for my Hogan Apex FTX irons. I hit them with the Project X shafts in them, but stuck with what I know and ordered them with the Dynamic Gold S300s (the Vokey wedges I ordered have the DGs in them and I noticed that the ZBs and ZMs all have the DGs standard) and the New Decade MultiCompound grips. Can't wait to get them out on the course to see how they perform for me under real conditions. I ordered them D2 swing weight (my Hogans are D3 and the AP2s that I hit were D0).


  16. Quote MeWill 2 Kay
    Posted 29 Apr 2008 (2 weeks ago) at 8:57am #

    I hit the AP2s on saturday and ordered a set almost before I putted out on the 18th. The one qualm I would have with them is the height they hit the ball with teh project X shafts but that is just because I came from a very flexibile shaft that hit it too low.

    I can't wait to get them in the bag and then I will work out the wedge combination that works best. Any suggestions? I am thinking 54* and 60* SM vokeys...


  17. Quote MeMatt M
    Posted 29 Apr 2008 (2 weeks ago) at 1:15pm #

    I have a 48º Vokey PW in my set along with a 54º and 58º. I never got used to my previous 60º and my 56º SW wasn't strong enough for me.


  18. Quote MeMark
    Posted 29 Apr 2008 (2 weeks ago) at 6:18pm #

    Local instructor, Chicago area loves the AP2's and can get them for me at a discount....Titleist staff. Play TM Racs right now, 5-6 years old. Solid single digit handicapp so I think it's time to move to a better feedback stick. Will take the E21 Eagle One shafts I have in my TM Racs now and put them in the AP2's. Curious to see the trajectory with AP2's and E21 shafts.


  19. Quote MePaul
    Posted 04 May 2008 (2 weeks ago) at 4:12pm #

    just spent about 2 hours on the range with a 755 and a AP2, both 6.0 project x. windy day, so it's a little hard to judge pure flight (i.e. cuts were cutting a lot, draws were staying more or less straight), but the AP2 blew the pants off the 755. feel, control, workability.... i haven't carried a handicap in a long time--young kids and only playing at conferences will do that--but probably strike the ball like a 10 or so. i actually felt the AP2 was more forgiving than the 755 (which seems contrary to the marketing i've read). maybe i just paid better attention with the AP2?

    i noticed the high trajectory with the rifle shafts; they didn't have a DGs300 to demo, so when i order, i'll be guessing a bit. in any event, the AP2 makes it pretty easy to keep the ball low if you want to. great iron. does everything i want it to and lets me know when i screwed up, but in a "now son, pay a little closer attention next time" kind of way instead of a knuckle-wrapping school marm kind of way. just glad i can't see that fugly cavity at address! (i kid i kid. it actually grew on me as the session went on).


  20. Quote MePaul
    Posted 04 May 2008 (2 weeks ago) at 4:13pm #

    one more thing... the guy at the shop said orders wouldn't arrive until late june due to demand. anyone else heard that?


  21. Quote Mery
    Posted 05 May 2008 (1 weeks ago) at 5:42pm #

    Paul said on May 4, 2008:

    one more thing... the guy at the shop said orders wouldn't arrive until late june due to demand. anyone else heard that?

    yulp. late june it is. i ordered mine last week and they told me late june as well. the ap2's are amazing. i'm playing at a 6 right now which is a little higher than usual and these irons give me the confidence i need to lower the cap' .


  22. Quote Mematt
    Posted 06 May 2008 (6 days ago) at 5:19am #

    I ordered a 3-PW set of these last week with a vokey 56 degree wedge. They seem to be readily available in the UK as a number of shops have them in stock over here.

    I tried out many clubs over the last few months to replace my old mizuno TPZ irons. I tried Mizzie MP60, MP57, MP67, Callaway X Tour, Pings, TaylorMades. I also tried the new ZM and ZB but the AP2 somehow manages to feel like its got the best of both worlds...

    ...The feel really is blade-like but it just offers enough help for slight mishits. I play of a 6 handicap and I think they fit my game perfectly. As much as I liked the idea of playing blades, I think my ego was coming before practicality.


  23. Quote MeQuinn
    Posted 06 May 2008 (6 days ago) at 10:48pm #

    Well I have to say I have just bought a set of the new ap2s. I love them, being an average golfer, a 10-15 handicap and i find the ap2s to have better ball flight, more consistent spin, and able to shot shape easier, something i have never really had the chance to play. but after getting fitted and ordered i have a waiting time of 4 weeks so its a thats a downer but i would recommend these clubs any day.
    thanks for the great review
    Quinn


  24. Quote MeRich
    Posted 09 May 2008 (3 days ago) at 10:14am #

    Bought these clubs on trip to the US a few weeks ago. Shot a one under 71 on a windy day in the second round of the year, a score I haven't been close to in years and years.

    To anyone worried about this not being a "player's club": The AP2's are in my view phenomenally forgiving (compared to the DCI 990s I played before) while still maintaining an attractive feel and ball flight. Also, they do indeed look very different, i.e. more "classic", once set up over the ball IRL, as compared to images online.

    Finally, the importance of getting the correct shaft cannot be overestimated. Have just realized I've wasted 9 years of my golfing life by playing the wrong shaft flex (regular).


  25. Quote Mewill m.
    Posted Yesterday at 10:07am #

    GET FITTED. The new fitting system is good. if you can afford Hotstix or something like that, do it. its worth it. As for the AP2's, they are back ordered 6 weeks! The Titliest guy told me, they were not prepared for the success of the iron. They truly are the best. They will end up as the "eye 2's" of this century. By the way, the Gap wedge is AWESOME!! ONE Thing to watch very carefully... Please have the lofts and lies checked... Unfortunately, all my clubs were several degrees off in lies and loft. We had them all moved to specs and now perfect. Weird for Titliest, but remember, the Chinese are the ones making these...so... Small issue to deal with. Have fun. w.



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