Low Ball Flight

[iacas]

I hit the ball pretty high. I'll hit a 5I and people will sometimes ask if I've hit an 8I. I used to take pride in that (after all, it sure was easy to trick the opponent into underclubbing), but I'd like to begin hitting the ball lower as better players do.

The average tour player's shaft is something like eight degrees forward (and thus the club is 8 degrees delofted) at impact. What are some good drills to delay the un****ing of the wrists and to get through the ball?

My swing at the moment is pretty compact, uses a good shoulder turn and weight transfer, and is in balance and under control. But I hit the ball higher than I'd like and thus not quite as far.

I plan to see a PGA Pro in the stupid dome and get a lesson or two, but not until January/February. I'm also starting my exercise routine in January. (Unrelated, I know.)

[dale]

TGM: Say a person is hitting every shot high. What can be done to correct that?
BH: No. 1, check your grip and make sure it's not too weak. You can strengthen your grip with tell strip to help the club go over and keep the loft on it, but in general people who hit the ball high release the club very early and don't transfer the weight. The biggest culprit is the lack of weight transfer, your weight staying back and you end up throwing the club from the top. When you practice, just get off your right side if you are right-handed. Just get the feeling that your right shoulder stays a little taller coming into the ball. That will keep the loft on the club.

BH is Butch Harmon.

[iacas]

I tend to play to a 6 or so. I'm not casting, I don't "throw the club at the ball," and my grip is fine last I checked (earlier today). I appreciate the help, but I'm not sure that's it.

It may be a bit on weight transfer, but just saying "you need a better transfer" isn't going to help much. Good golfers are still behind the ball when they make contact, but their hands are well ahead of the ball. Mine are about even and my weight shift is in about the same position.

I think I'll take my mini DV camcorder next time.

[gas_can]

Since you're hitting with stiff shafts I'd suggest looking into an X flex on your next set.

How does the ball travel? Is it a consistant high arc, or does it start out flat and all of a sudden balloon up high? Could be a spin issue with the ball.

Are your punch and knockdown shots flying higher than you'd like too? If so, I'd say it's more of an equipment issue than a swing one. Some clubs are just made to go higher than others.

Try holding on to your finish, don't end the swing up high and break your wrists/elbows. Lock your wrists through impact and try and finish on your right side like Tigers new finish. Try moving the ball back a couple of inches and forward press by half a fists length or so.

There's other stuff you can try too, cupping the left wrist at the top to de-loft the club . . . but that's a feel thing a pro needs to show you how to do.

[iacas]

Since you're hitting with stiff shafts I'd suggest looking into an X flex on your next set.

Not sure that's the way to go. S300s are pretty stiff and my swingspeed hovers around 105 - not quite enough for an X.

How does the ball travel? Is it a consistant high arc, or does it start out flat and all of a sudden balloon up high? Could be a spin issue with the ball.

Are your punch and knockdown shots flying higher than you'd like too? If so, I'd say it's more of an equipment issue than a swing one. Some clubs are just made to go higher than others.

It's consistent and not a spin issue. It may be the clubs (Titleist DCI 962b) - they're "cavity back blades" and it may be part of the reason. Don't have much occasion to hit too many knockdowns - home home course is largely a target/air course, but when I do they're lower.

Try holding on to your finish, don't end the swing up high and break your wrists/elbows. Lock your wrists through impact and try and finish on your right side like Tigers new finish. Try moving the ball back a couple of inches and forward press by half a fists length or so.

Tiger finishes in a reverse pivot? :-) I typically have the ball back a little too far, actually - I play nearly ever shot near the middle of my stance. I've been working on moving it into a better position.

There's other stuff you can try too, cupping the left wrist at the top to de-loft the club . . . but that's a feel thing a pro needs to show you how to do.

Yeah, and I'll get there soon enough. I'm just trying to generate a bit more lag and get that shaft leaning forward a little before I take a lesson.

Never taken a lesson so far, and typically have a pretty good idea what's going on. But I suppose we'll see...

[gas_can]

Try holding on to your finish, don't end the swing up high and break your wrists/elbows. Lock your wrists through impact and try and finish on your right side like Tigers new finish

That should read, "left side" easiest fix for a reverse pivot ever! :-D

[dale]

I play to a 9 and I also add loft, meaning.... I'm casting ! There is no way to add loft without casting. The clubhead HAS to be ahead of the hands in order to ADD loft. A pro has 8 degrees of lean at address....15 at impact.

[iacas]

I don't think they have 15 at impact, no. I've heard 8. 15 would be ridiculous - a 1-iron doesn't have 15 degrees of loft, nor does a driver.

[dale]

An average 5 iron has 8 degree's of forward lean at address...15 at impact by some of the better pro..effectively tuning it into a 3 iron. I never said anthing about loft.

[iacas]

Dale, a 5-iron has 28 degrees of loft. If it's "leaning forward" 15 degrees at impact, that gives it 13 degrees of loft. If a 2-iron is leaning forward 15 degrees at impact, it'd hit the ball into the ground (or 4 degrees off of it).

I've heard about 8 degrees at impact, not at address. I'm pretty confident in that number and the source. The shots of Ernie Els in the January 2005 issue of Golf Digest seem to indicate that 15 is way too much.

But anyway, that's getting a bit off-topic. I think I'll be working on staying behind the shot with my head, but getting my weight onto my left-hand side earlier, delofting the club a little in the process.

In January, that is, when I can schedule a lesson.

[dale]

http://www.golftipsmag.com/content/pastissues/2001/may/4factors.html

Look at the shaft at impact where they discuss face.

[iacas]

Yeah, there's a reason that's a still shot and not a golf swing: I think the angles they're using in those pictures are absurd, and I don't think anyone hits the ball like that. Not anyone good, that is. Again I'll refer you to the Jan/05 issue of Golf Digest...

[jcgolfpro]

Iacas,

I think your problem may be similar to my tendency...

Many are focusing on adding loft which produces a weak shot as the ball slides up the clubface and many times it fades. I have a tendency to hit the ball very high but when I start doing that, I know I have slid the ball too far back in my stance. The one thing some have forgotten is "angle of attack." When we slide the ball too far back, we get a little steep...many times doesn't hurt majorly but when playing in the wind, we hit a lot of "ballooned" shots.

However, without seeing, I can't be sure but you can. If you have access to an impact bag, you can feel it yourself. If not, get a cloth laundry bag and fill it with towels and swing into it (using an old club in case something goes wrong). This will provide IMMEDIATE feedback on your impact position.

[iacas]

Indeed, the ball may be back too far. I'll move it up and see how I feel.

When I started, I used to be very "slidey" - slide back, slide forward - and putting the ball in the exact center of my swing produced the best results (I was probably as likely to hit it thin as fat there, ha ha). As I've gotten better, I've kinda left the ball there... I'll move it up and see how it feels.

NB: my high ball flight is consistent and works really well in half decent weather. I just don't think I'm getting the distance and consistency I could be.

Thanks.

[iacas]

And, come to think of it, my high ball flight may simply be my clubs: Titleist 962bs have a lot of weight in the sole of the club. I dunno just yet...

[dale]

Yeah, there's a reason that's a still shot and not a golf swing: I think the angles they're using in those pictures are absurd, and I don't think anyone hits the ball like that. Not anyone good, that is. Again I'll refer you to the Jan/05 issue of Golf Digest...


http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/90714/2/3179343

Maybe the best swing ever. Please check the impact photo which is not a "still". Absurd.......hmmm.

[iacas]

Ernie Els (http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/79626/1/2770247/Large), 5 degrees, midiron
Tiger Woods (http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/80234/1/3117535/Large), 7 degrees, driver
Colin Montgomery ( http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/94311/1/3314691/Large), way less than 15 degrees, midiron
Davis Love III (http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/81492/1/2831287/Large), 3 degrees, long iron
Hank Kuehne (http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/84599/1/2942908/Large), 7 degrees (12 if you don't adjust for camera angle), long iron.
David Duval (http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/86904/1/3033116/Large), 3 degrees, driver
Adam Scott (http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/81493/1/2831298), 5 degrees maximum, midiron
Sergio Garcia (http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/80523/1/4091425/Large), 3 degrees maximum, driver

One photo of Mickey Wright hitting a ball from the rough with a 9I isn't going to convince me of much. Again, January 2005 Golf Digest. Or any of the images I've listed here.

And I still think it might be the clubs, too.

[skrumple]

Whta kind of shafts do you have in your irons. Try to fine a low tajectory dynamic gold shaft. Also just move the ball back in your stance to lower it and you hands will juct go forward automaticly thats what i did and i agined 20 yes 20 yards to me irons and they are a low draw not a high fade.

[iacas]

Whta kind of shafts do you have in your irons. Try to fine a low tajectory dynamic gold shaft. Also just move the ball back in your stance to lower it and you hands will juct go forward automaticly thats what i did and i agined 20 yes 20 yards to me irons and they are a low draw not a high fade.

I play DG S300s.

And, paradoxically enough, moving the ball forward in my stance brought my ball flight down a little.

I'm going to get 680s, I'm 75% sure, as soon as I can be fitted.

[skrumple]

Ok well I guess you have this figured out then.

[iacas]

Ok well I guess you have this figured out then.
Not sure I can say that, but I think I'm on my way. :-)