Understanding the Golf Swing

[iacas]

I played today with two kids who are 15. Both hit the ball, as you might imagine, pretty far. I was about 20 yards short on all tee shots (3W or driver).

They both do this, but I'll talk about one in particular as his case is severe. Mike hits the ball just about 25 to 30deg to the right of his target line. The ball hooks back, sometimes too much.

I've measured. 30deg. It's ridiculous. It works at the course I play at - there are not many "chutes" of trees, and the holes that have chutes accept a draw. But he still comes awfully close.

Sometimes, of course, he leaves the clubface open and the ball goes about 100 yards right on that same 30deg angle.

One hole - 16 at my course - is a short, uphill par 4. No room to hit a 80-yard hook. I told him to squeeze off a 3W or hold off the face from closing. He had no idea what I really meant.

Mike's swing is flat enough to set a ball on it and have it not roll off, and he delivers the club from so far inside I'm surprised he doesn't catch his fingers on the belt loop over his back pocket.

Mike typically shoots about 78, but he'll have rounds where everything goes right or everything hooks 150 yards to the left (I ain't kiddin') and he'll shoot 96 with six or seven shots OB. He regularly hits a 3I off a fairly reachable par 5 on the back nine (13 at my course) because he's gone OB so many times there it's scared him off of even hitting a 3W.

Kids these days, I tell ya. Anyway, this is a long roundabout way of asking one very simple question: how well do you believe you understand the golf swing? On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being David Leadbetter and 1 being, I dunno, some kid in Nepal who's never heard of golf.

I'd put myself at about a 7 or an 8. I've always had a pretty good knack for seeing what other people are doing in a golf swing, and though I may struggle from time to time, as soon as I get myself on film I know exactly what to fix. Understanding the golf swing and being able to do it and feel it are two different things, after all.

I've read up on things, I know some good training drills, and I play both by feel and analytically, depending on the situation.

In fact, if y'all want to list your handicap index and your guess at your score here, maybe we'll see a correlation.

Mine: 5.7 index, 7.5 understanding (I'll choose 7 in the poll)

[iacas]

Oh yes, an additional note. Mike basically got into a small argument with me about another player, Steve. Steve cannot swing from the inside to save his life - I think he's literally physically incapable of it. :-) He hits a big cut most of the time, or when his timing is on he hits a pull cut that finds fairways. Typical "over the top" move and if the clubface is square, it starts down the middle and cuts, if it's closed it starts left and cuts, and if it's really closed it starts left and goes straight or hooks.

Mike was trying to tell me that those pull-draws were a matter of coming from the inside. I tried to point out that it's all relative - if swing path is 5 degrees from the outside and the clubface is closed 10 degrees, it'll start left and then hook, but it wasn't a "hook swing" or "from the inside."

I'm not sure what they're failing to grasp here - it's always been something I tend to innately "get." The clubface at impact is the starting line of the ball. Its flight from there on out is determined by the swing path relative to the clubface. That's it.

But they don't get that. I don't know what that says about them - or their future - as golfers. I hope they learn fast.

[sevenfourate]

'm not sure what they're failing to grasp here - it's always been something I tend to innately "get." The clubface at impact is the starting line of the ball. Its flight from there on out is determined by the swing path relative to the clubface. That's it.


Thats not quite correct Erik.Its the other way around :-D :

Swingpath gives the ball its initial direction and its the clubface that applies the spin to the ball thereafter,and therefore gives the final shot shape.

Im not teaching you to suck eggs - and hopefully some others can learn,but thats why your typical slicer's divot points left,but why the ball then curves to the right......

Out to in swing (or "over-the-top" move): Divot aims left along swing-path.
Open clubface to this swing-path: Ball spins left to right (anti-clockwise).

= SLICE !!!!! :-\

[sevenfourate]

Not the best example ever ive seen but heres a little insert about Swingpaths and ball-flights for anyone interested:

http://www.swinglife.iwarp.com/pages/understandflight.html


Basically theres 3 swing-paths (Out to in,inside-square-to inside and in to out),and three clubface positions (open,square and closed) giving you 9 potential shot shapes:

From left to right across the spectrum:

Outside to in SWING with CLOSED clubface = Pull-hook.
Outside to in SWING with SQUARE clubface = Pull.
Outside to in SWING with OPEN clubface = Slice.

Square SWING with CLOSED clubface = Draw away from target.
Square SWING with SQUARE clubface = Straight shot.
Square SWING with OPEN clubface = Fade away from target.

In to out SWING with CLOSED clubface = Hook.
In to out SWING with SQUARE clubface = Push.
In to out SWING with OPEN clubface = Push-slice.

As well as those nine shots you also have these 2:

Slightly inside to out SWING with slightly CLOSED clubface = Draw.
Slightly outside to in SWING with slightly OPEN clubface = Fade.

Then EXCESSIVELY in to out OR out to in with hosel strike = Shank.

First way to "cure" any of these bad shots is to work on swingpath FIRST (always) (look at divot for a clue) - THEN sort the position of the clubface at impact after that.

Hope that helps someone :-D

[iacas]

Thats not quite correct Erik.Its the other way around :-D :

Swingpath gives the ball its initial direction and its the clubface that applies the spin to the ball thereafter,and therefore gives the final shot shape.

Im not teaching you to suck eggs - and hopefully some others can learn,but thats why your typical slicer's divot points left,but why the ball then curves to the right......

Out to in swing (or "over-the-top" move): Divot aims left along swing-path.
Open clubface to this swing-path: Ball spins left to right (anti-clockwise).

= SLICE !!!!! :-\

Uh, yes, that's what I said. Except that swing path has very little to do with the initial direction. I know which way a divot points, and it seems as though you're drastically misreading what I've written.

[AK-Edge]

Thats not quite correct Erik.Its the other way around :-D :

Swingpath gives the ball its initial direction and its the clubface that applies the spin to the ball thereafter,and therefore gives the final shot shape.

Im not teaching you to suck eggs - and hopefully some others can learn,but thats why your typical slicer's divot points left,but why the ball then curves to the right......

Out to in swing (or "over-the-top" move): Divot aims left along swing-path.
Open clubface to this swing-path: Ball spins left to right (anti-clockwise).

= SLICE !!!!! :-\

Maybe I am just misunderstanding you, but part of that doesnt make sense to me. But if you open the clubface along the out to in swingpath it would make it slice, but wouldnt that require the ball to spin clockwise? To me it would seem that anti clockwise rotation of the ball and an outside-in swing would result in a pull-hook or pull-draw?

[iacas]

Maybe I am just misunderstanding you, but part of that doesnt make sense to me. But if you open the clubface along the out to in swingpath it would make it slice, but wouldnt that require the ball to spin clockwise? To me it would seem that anti clockwise rotation of the ball and an outside-in swing would result in a pull-hook or pull-draw?
I think he meant clockwise.

Slices spin clockwise (when viewed from above looking down on top of the ball).
Hooks spin counter-clockwise (again, when viewed from above).

And ignoring backspin, of course. :-)

Really - when viewed from the tee (i.e. behind the ball, with it travelling away from you), a slice spins like / and a draw spins like \ (if you understand my simple ASCII art, imagine arrow heads on the bottom of each of those).

[AK-Edge]

OK cool. It was just what made sense to me, but what makes sense to me definitely isnt always right.

[iacas]

OK cool. It was just what made sense to me, but what makes sense to me definitely isnt always right.
Further discussion of swing path and clubface angles can be done in this thread (http://thesandtrap.com/forum/showthread.php?t=904). Let's get this thread back to talking about how well you believe you understand the golf swing. ;-)

[AK-Edge]

I would say I have an understanding of about a 6, I can usually diagnose whats causing things to go wrong since I know what I tend to do wrong. But I cant really look at someone elses swing and know whats wrong with it.

[muda]

i know my swing inside and out. since i play mostly by feel, it's hard for me to tell others what they could do to improve, so I just keep my mouth shut.

[muskegman]

I'd have to give myself a 3.5 out of 10 on swing understanding and it shows in my handicap. I'm a mid nineties guy for the time being. While I'm a 3.5 I'm in the middle of a swing change with a pro so here's to hoping that improves soon.

[Rafcin]

"The process of learning your golf swing (or anything else) begins when you challenge your brain by flooding it with new information -- a new grip, a different aim, or a brand-new start to your downswing. To handle the overload your brain adds connections and your neural networks grow in size. Once the growth has occurred, the brain rewards itself by releasing pleasure molecules called endorphins, the reason you feel good when you learn something. Given this built-in reward system, the message is clear: to learn how to swing the club, the best thing you can do is be patient, accept the temporary chaos, and let the endorphins rage."

Finally somebody explained it the way we can understand... Oh wait. I didn't understand it ;-)

[iacas]

"The process of learning your golf swing (or anything else) begins when you challenge your brain by flooding it with new information -- a new grip, a different aim, or a brand-new start to your downswing. To handle the overload your brain adds connections and your neural networks grow in size. Once the growth has occurred, the brain rewards itself by releasing pleasure molecules called endorphins, the reason you feel good when you learn something. Given this built-in reward system, the message is clear: to learn how to swing the club, the best thing you can do is be patient, accept the temporary chaos, and let the endorphins rage."

Finally somebody explained it the way we can understand... Oh wait. I didn't understand it ;-)
I'm gonna read some Rotella books. I'm guessing he doesn't talk quite like that. :-)

[Rafcin]

I'm gonna read some Rotella books. I'm guessing he doesn't talk quite like that. :-)
Nah, it's not from Rotella. I think he's preaching is different sort - he doesn't talk to about changing swings, learning new swings. He's idea is - whatever you have is good enough for him, and he'll help you get your head out of the way, so you can execute your mechanics that you have. If you don't have them - he can't help you.

[rckymtnglfr]

I'm about the same as Erik. I've played many years, taken many lessons, watched many videos, read many books. I have a very good understanding of my swing and can help most players with a 15 or above. Some of the finer details I can not pick up without video. My selection was 7 and I am a 7 handicap.

[NCGolfer]

I'm a 7, but people treat me as an 8. :-)

I wish I knew more about the swing...or at least could pick up quicker on things. It takes me a while to watch someone and really pick up what they are doing. Just in the past year or so I've paid much more attention to the differences in swings and tried helping more. The reason I was hesitiant in the past is that I didn't want to cause any more problems. I'm over that now though...but still tread lightly and only work on one thing at a time.

[skrumple]

I put 9 but I should have put 8. I have been with the same coach for 3 year and I can nw recognize what people are doing right and wrong

[You're Away]

Well, I picked #6 and I'm around a 12 right now. I actually have a pretty good understanding of the swing but still like to have a pro help me correct my problems (at least sometimes). I can also usually see faults in other swings but never say anything, and if I'm asked I might pick one main thing for them to be aware of. More often than not I don't even watch others swings for fear that it'll mess me up...don't even get me started on left handers ;-) .

Chris

[Gary W]

Good question - there is a quite a gap between #6 and #7 in my case. I can usually figure out what I need to do/not do, but generally don't know where to start in offering suggestions to others.

[kklick]

Well I picked 5 but it could be somewhere between that and 7. I've only been playing for about 6 years. The first two years I didn't really try to improve just played. After that I started reading books. I've been through a ton of golf books and enjoy reading different ideas. I think I have a pretty good understanding of the swing and can usually pick out what I'm or others are doing wrong. Without video though its hard for me to see if I'm actually doing what my mind is saying I'm doing. Sometimes what you think you are doing may not be what is actually happening so I usually try to see a pro and get some feedback.

Yesterday I got through most of a new book. The 7 laws of the golf swing by Nick Bradley. Its actually an excellent book with great visual images. Can't wait to finish it and put some of it to work.

[Indian Sensation]

I am #1 as I have many problems but am workign on getting better by listening to the advice of Cthrash13.

[alexlax12]

It's hard for me make a decision in the pole because a lot of those choices apply to me. I would say I have a pretty good idea of whats going on in the golf swing, and work on a lot of things myself. However I do take lessons, and people ask me for advice. I wouldn't say I can fix any problem I see in my own swing, but for a higher handicapper I can generally point them in the right direction.
Also, many people feel differently about the golf swing. For example, if you showed my pro Tiger's swing, he would say that Tiger has some work to do. And my pro is a well known teacher in my area, has caddied on the PGA tour, and qualified for the U.S. Open. My point is, that no matter how well people think they know the golf swing, almost certainly other people will have different thoughts/approaches.
As for the pole I chose (7) and my handicap is 5.2

[golfchief]

I'm not sure what they're failing to grasp here -

There not trying to get it, they want to swing as hard as they can and hit the ball a long way. the ball does go far but they have no idea where.
I play nine holes Sunday with two young guys and a wife ( in mid 20s) they hit the ball all over long, usually without a shot to the green. I shot a six over 42 and missed one fairway about 8 feet and that was because of the wind.
they were in the high 50s.

[Konrad]

I would say that I know a lot about the golf swing simply because I have read way to many books. Heh. I can pretty much tell what people are doing wrong, but I feel unconfortable giving people advice, because, I'm only 14.

[neudi]

To me that is a tough question to answer b/c there is no real "Perfect" swing. Everyone's is different and obviously they work well...from Furyk's odd backswing to tigers hard swing to jacks all wrists putting method. I mean the swing can be a completely different thing for everyone so i dont know if you can really KNOW a ton about a swing other than you own.

[allin]

I feel most experienced golfers can look at another golfer and identify faults. The problem is when you consider fixes there often unintended consequences. Especially when you consider individual differences, age, build, personality, the ability to find the right fix and communicate it so that another person can make us of it is very difficult. I need a feel, others need a visual cue, or a trigger. Thats why PGA teaching pros get paid.;-)

[muskegman]

I feel most experienced golfers can look at another golfer and identify faults. The problem is when you consider fixes there often unintended consequences. Especially when you consider individual differences, age, build, personality, the ability to find the right fix and communicate it so that another person can make us of it is very difficult. I need a feel, others need a visual cue, or a trigger. Thats why PGA teaching pros get paid.;-)
Very, very good point. What may be working for me won't necessarily work for you. Keep in mind that what I'm doing may be a ugly patch for a bigger problem I'm having. :-) There are some general principles that fit all of us though like proper swing plane and such.

[georgep]

I don't think options 5 and 6 are mutually exclusive. I can fix my swing, but I still like to have a pro look at it once in awhile to make sure I haven't picked up a new bad habit that I'm unaware of. I can also generally get my friends on track (but only if they ask).

[thehillgolfer]

i put 4...the only book i've read is tiger woods' how i play golf. i used that for my basics but havent looked at it since, i do suscribe to golf digest (for a couple months) but i have yet to find a tip thats worked. one thing i do know is that slowing down my swing does not work.

[golfchief]

I think when they say slow your swing they mean to slow the back swing and swing the club with speed on the down swing.

[georgep]

I think when they say slow your swing they mean to slow the back swing and swing the club with speed on the down swing.

I'd elaborate on that to say that slowing the backswing is a good general tip, but in particular slow down the transition at the top. A lot of people try to yank it down from the top, which throws everything off. If I don't pause or at least smoothly transition from back to forward swing, I'm going to be off plane and lucky to find any mown area on the course. Don't be in a hurry to get to the ball.

Then, you should feel like the club hits maximum speed just in front of the ball (as in after you've hit it), about 7 o'clock as seen from behind the golfer.

[A.J.]

I feel most experienced golfers can look at another golfer and identify faults. The problem is when you consider fixes there often unintended consequences. Especially when you consider individual differences, age, build, personality, the ability to find the right fix and communicate it so that another person can make us of it is very difficult. I need a feel, others need a visual cue, or a trigger. Thats why PGA teaching pros get paid.;-)


Indeed. On a similar note, I'll share a little annecdote about how dangerous giving out swing advice can actually be.

A friend of the family, a very very good golfer with a solid understanding of his swing was a constant victim of the "one-size fits all" mentality. The result was tragic for my father's game as he would aggressively give innaplicable advice (to a guy who was hitting the ball well too). You see, he had developed a convicted attitude that Hogan really did have all the keys to the game. If you've read The Five Fundamenals you know Hogan suffered a bit from the holy grail syndrom when it came to swing fundamentals. He studied Hogan's swing maticulously. Makes sense right--he figured, "hey, Hogan's built just like me, that the swing I should be making." You see he was all of 5'6" 140. On the other hand, my father is 6'4" 220! He also didn't realize, apparently, that other pros with small builds could have been studied e.g. Tom Watson (one plane v. two plane swings).

The moral of the story is you have to be careful when giving out advice no matter how well you understand the golf swing. Should Chi Chi Rodgriguez or Lee Travino or Jim Furyk listen to you if numbly try to correct their apparently horrendous swing habits based on your concept of the correct swing? No. They'd probably just ignore you and continue smoking you from tee to green. :-D

[tpgolf]

Great post AJ

I rated myself as a 7. I can spot the swing flaws of fellow golfers and a can give advise to fix the flaw, however, I only give the fix if the person asks.

As for golfers that have unorthodox swings, if they have been playing for a while they know more about their swing than you ever will. And they have learned to get the ball in the hole with the swing they have. To paraphrase Harvey Penick, beware the golfer with a bad grip and a bad swing. They have learned to play around their flaw.

[rover220]

i voted 6 as i generally know when/why im doing something wrong as i know my swing pretty well. besides, most of my troubles come from trying to rip the ball on the backswing...DOH! :lol:

can spot minor faults on others swings too.

[$2 Nassau]

Being honest with myself, I rated myself a 4. I've been playing about 3+ years now...how much can I really know? I like to think I'm constantly learning and constantly getting better though.

Nice thread.

[elivate]

I am at 22.3 right now and I would say my knowledge of the golf swing would be 5.5

[lamebums]

I'm about 6.5. I know what I'm doing wrong, and occasionally I help others. About a 15 handicap. What keeps my handicap up (and currently going in the wrong direction) is blowup holes.

[powerhitter]

Im about a 2 on that, even though I can shoot below/even par its due to hitting the ball far enough to lessen my mistakes. My swing is based on instincts and I have very little "actual" golf knowledge on the intracasies of the golf swing.

[niblick]

I gave myself a 4. I was at the range with a co-worker recently and he asked about hitting draws and fades. I was able to show him one of each successfully. I know my own swing pretty well, and I know my tendencies.

I'm a 21 handicap. Last year I was a 25. I've only been taking my game seriously for about a year and a half. Before that I only played a few times a year. I'm a voracious reader, and I study the game passionately. When something goes sideways with my swing, I generally know what's happening. I don't tell other people anything though. I may be able to see what they're doing at times, but my knowledge isn't deep enough to be of any long-term help.

[Philfest]

I played today with two kids who are 15. Both hit the ball, as you might imagine, pretty far. I was about 20 yards short on all tee shots (3W or driver).

They both do this, but I'll talk about one in particular as his case is severe. Mike hits the ball just about 25 to 30deg to the right of his target line. The ball hooks back, sometimes too much.

I've measured. 30deg. It's ridiculous. It works at the course I play at - there are not many "chutes" of trees, and the holes that have chutes accept a draw. But he still comes awfully close.

Sometimes, of course, he leaves the clubface open and the ball goes about 100 yards right on that same 30deg angle.

One hole - 16 at my course - is a short, uphill par 4. No room to hit a 80-yard hook. I told him to squeeze off a 3W or hold off the face from closing. He had no idea what I really meant.

Mike's swing is flat enough to set a ball on it and have it not roll off, and he delivers the club from so far inside I'm surprised he doesn't catch his fingers on the belt loop over his back pocket.

Mike typically shoots about 78, but he'll have rounds where everything goes right or everything hooks 150 yards to the left (I ain't kiddin') and he'll shoot 96 with six or seven shots OB. He regularly hits a 3I off a fairly reachable par 5 on the back nine (13 at my course) because he's gone OB so many times there it's scared him off of even hitting a 3W.

Kids these days, I tell ya. Anyway, this is a long roundabout way of asking one very simple question: how well do you believe you understand the golf swing? On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being David Leadbetter and 1 being, I dunno, some kid in Nepal who's never heard of golf.

I'd put myself at about a 7 or an 8. I've always had a pretty good knack for seeing what other people are doing in a golf swing, and though I may struggle from time to time, as soon as I get myself on film I know exactly what to fix. Understanding the golf swing and being able to do it and feel it are two different things, after all.

I've read up on things, I know some good training drills, and I play both by feel and analytically, depending on the situation.

In fact, if y'all want to list your handicap index and your guess at your score here, maybe we'll see a correlation.

Mine: 5.7 index, 7.5 understanding (I'll choose 7 in the poll)

You said; "Mike typically shoots about 78" or so.

Well, I'd take his swing if it came with a 78 and I wouldn't give 2-shitz about the rounds in which he lost it in!

Don't be so pro minded and be happy with your own "near perfect" swing and handicap.

[Ringer]

Where's the "One step above Leadbetter" option? :D

I'm a Scratch (+2 when I can practice) and probably a 9 to 9.5. There's always more for me to learn but I can coach the best of them.

[slackhouse]

i'm about a 1. Still trying to learn the game and all of the little things that can make a huge difference. It still amazes me how so many things have to come together with your swing to accomplish what you want.

[muskegman]

You said; "Mike typically shoots about 78" or so.

Well, I'd take his swing if it came with a 78 and I wouldn't give 2-shitz about the rounds in which he lost it in!

Don't be so pro minded and be happy with your own "near perfect" swing and handicap.

A little testy (http://www.••••••••••••••••••?v=KGvUSCo6_LY)? BTW, I'm totally kidding you. Just so you know. :-P

[lamebums]

Understanding of what's going on, 7, maybe 8. My actual swing? 4, on a good day. I know what I do wrong 99 times out of 100, I just can't get all my shit together.

[Ringer]

A little testy (http://www.••••••••••••••••••?v=KGvUSCo6_LY)?

Hey hey hey.. there will be no porno here.

[sonicblue]

I'm entirely self-taught (i.e., through just watching TV, reading books/mags, independent drills, etc...). I took one set of three lessons, helped for a bit, but ultimately I had to rethink it all in my own head. I consider myself a student of the swing, and believe everyone has to accomplish the same basic goals but via their own anatomy.

I'll pass on the occasional tip to a partner but only if I actually know that person (I won't just start blabbing to some random single I hook up with, unless they actually ask). I've taught my wife from scratch, and she's never been an athlete of any kind, to the point where she can pop a 175-yd drive out there straight (we're working on chipping and putting!). My regular golfing buddy has a very unique, self-constructed swing that tends to get off-kilter a lot, and I can usually set him straight within a couple holes.

All in all, I've considered advertising locally giving inexpensive, beginner golf lessons just to see if I could really teach.

[lamebums]

I think I might have posted this before, but here goes - 7 or so in my understanding. I keep it to myself mostly - but if someone asks for advice I'll pass it on, especially if I'm at the range and just taking my time. 99 out of 100 times I know what's going wrong with my swing. Usually, I'm able to fix it.

My swing is almost entirely self-taught and homemade. It was refined by a driving range pro to be a bit more reliable, but it's still pretty dysfunctional. I take it back like John Daly, then to extend so I don't pull the ball, I end up leaning forward and almost around the center of the swing path and ending in a short finish that resembles Arnie hitting driver. (Yeah, beware the guy with a weird swing or grip - because he's found a way to make it work).

Is there any pro who ends up swinging themselves opposite the club as they extend through? I'm trying to draw a comparison but I can't see anyone who does.

[The Rambler]

I'm a lucky one. i got to have my dad teach me the joys of the game

[Chris36]

I'm a number 3

[robert]

On this scale I feel like about a 5. I have several mental cues that I like to trigger my swing off of, but ultimately I want that feedback from a third party looking at my swing. Assuming they are qualified to help me with my swing. I feel like my yearly improvement in golf is directly from the help of the various CPGA teachers I have learned from, they know what they're doing and they've taught me well and I imagine I will always be coming back for more adjustments and tweaks to my swing.

[Leek]

I'm a professional lesson taker. I love to learn as much as possible. I have gone to a number of top 50 instructors (as ranked by Golf and Golf Digest). I've gone to some great ones who aren't ranked. I've discussed theory with all of them. Many friends come to me to diagnose and help them fix their swings.

Unfortunately, when I play I'm giving myself a lesson and I just can't turn it off. I diagnose every shot, especially misses (which are 90% of my shots). It costs me about 4-5 shots a round. I wish I could forget what I've learned, but this year I got a 5 hdcp to scratch, a 14 to an 8. I also got a 13 hdcp up to a 15 :)

[Fourputt]

I'm a 6 on that scale... I have good understanding of the principles and physics of the swing, but I don't delude myself into thinking that I can use that knowledge to help anyone but myself. I can often see what most high cappers are doing wrong, but trying to fix it is well beyond my capabilities. I can usually fix problems with my own swing, but that is based more on observation of the ball trajectory and feel. I can feel what I'm doing, but I can't feel what another player is doing, thus I don't feel comfortable in trying to tell them how to change anything.

I will sometimes offer some basic advice on the short game fundamentals if I'm asked, but again I don't try to fine tune it, just tell them what the basics are.

[tigerstripes]

Those kids are only 15 years old, when I was 15 i didn't care about any of that crap, all I cared about were cars and girls. (and yes, I played golf at 15)

I didn't care to learn swing technicalities until well after college.

Anyways, to answer your question, I put myself at a 6 on your scale.

[putterboy]

I say I am I still "check in with the pro to see what I should work on". I say this for two reasons: my pro is awesome and always knows exactly what minor tweak to make to bring everything together. Second I dont have the ability yet to film my swing at the range. If I got that I would be leaning more towards being able to diag my own swing issues and fix them

[ericm]

I'd have to say I am a 6b. The 'b' qualifier is that I don't play enough and that leads to tragic forgetfulness. I am currently a 16.3, which will go up a few tenths after today's round. During my prime, country club brat days, I was a 4.8. Every now and then I'll feel something that I have done really correctly and the light bulb goes on and my swing will get incrementally better.

[bluenar9]

It's funny becausae I understand the physics of the golf swing with all the different swing path/clubface variations and even what causes each of the different changes in the aforesaid elements... yet every time I go to the range, my swing is different. Sometimes my divots are straight and sometimes they're angled to the left. I started using a strong grip a couple of years ago and that corrected my chronic slicing problem. Now I have a swingpath problem where I come down too over-the-toppish. I'm not the most flexible person, so I like the straight back, straight left elbow, push my wrist out, then come back straight down method. But sometimes I come outside-in and it creates pull issues.

[Lost Ball]

Lost Ball likes to get lessons every few months or so but that is it due to time and money

[Crafty]

I understand a fairly large amount about the golf swing for someone my age (16), not to brag. I know how to fix problems for the most part, and I can help most of my golfing buddies with their issues. I would say that I like to check the fundamentals (grip, head, and stance) before I go searching for minute details in my swing. So overall, I would rate myself 6 to 6.5

[tm22721]

My knowledge has improved to maybe a 5/6. Being an engineer I tend to overanalyze. Now that my swing has stabilized I am trying to analyze less, and develop more feel/instinct.

I am not there yet.

[x-forged]

i voted a 6. i know my own swing well, and am able to tell if something is off and i can generally fix it. i know the golf swing pretty well, but im no expert. i can tell what a person is doing wrong if they are hitting the ball bad, and i sometimes give advice, but i wont give complicated advice, i dont want to mess things up even more.

[tm22721]

How about a poll for those of us who know what to do but can't do it ?

[amedeiros]

How about a poll for those of us who know what to do but can't do it ?

Or one for just the opposite? I feel I am capable of a great swing, I just don't know enough of the swing basics and how to apply them to my swing. This is definitely due to the fact that the only lessons I have had were rare and from an awesome pro at my grandpa's country club in San Diego who I have not been able to see for years now as I live about 5-6 hours away and rarely have time for a lesson when I am there :-( That being said I put myself roughly at a 3.

[r7 425]

Im a feel player...I dont get boggled in mechanics..Its basically hand eye coordination with a lot of him turn..im pretty athletic and the more i move my hips the better i hit the ball..

[irspow]

Okay, I'll bite. I think that I am a nine. Maybe that sounds smug, but I've devoted more than half of my life studying all of the information I can get my hands on regarding the game and the swing itself specifically. While my index should be lower because of my knowledge, I feel that I will never really reach my true potential.

I have an insatiable desire to understand all of the different methods to swing a club efficiently which leads to a never ending series of experiments. I feel that I have to KNOW all of the possible methods, both by feel and technique, in order to be able to reach and help as many people as possible with my instruction.

This along with looking at terrible swings most of the day will probably forever doom me to never developing a razor sharp game for myself. But then I am an instructor not a player.

Tom

[twomey7]

I chose three. Sometimes I can fix my swing but Most of the time I don't know whats going on. I figure im coming over the ball. But I think my swing is just out of whack. I am off balance, I swing too hard, Im not fluid, my grip is wrong. I just cant afford golf lessons though

[mrobbie]

17 Handicap, and voted 6

As above, I probably need a lesson, but its just too $$$ here so I will wait until I move on to the next destination before getting into a block of lessons (I think I am beyond a 1 lesson fix!)

I generally get to fix my issues but plugging away at them. I think I understand the fundamentals and so will be able to figure out the cause of a persistent problem through enough range time.

[AmenCorner]

I voted 5, which I think is modest. I'm only 31 but have been playing and reading, and taking lessons since I was 12 or so.

I know the swing pretty well, but don't really have the knack for swing tips.

Whether or not I offer advice depends on the situation. Usually not. However, I have friends that sometime ask or are just starting the game. I will give them pointers on swing fundamentals, but usually not style type tips.

[dkglf98]

I rely on ball flight to tell me what my swing is doing, ie. starts left of my target I came over it, push it a little is cool, I came inside just didn't release.

[wachesawgolfer]

I think most people can tell a good swing from a poor one. Problem is they cannot see their own swing unless they video or use mirrors and often they are not doing what they think they are doing or feeling. Since they cannot figure what they are doing wrong in their own swing they think they cannot or should not know what someone is doing wrong or right. But, its easy to see a break in tempo, poor shoulder turn, lifting the club, poor top position, casting, change of spine angle, tilting, reverse pivot, poor grip, poor setup, lousy alignment, rolling the clubface in the takeaway or a lousy finish and the sound of the shot tells a lot too. What you cannot see is why someone hits it 300 and someone else 260, for the most part, because the swing is too fast to see the weight shift forward, lag preservation and impact positon.

[Left Is Right]

Im about a 6

I know a lot about the swing or what it should look like, I can identify others swing faults by looking at their swing and comparing in my mind what they are doing wrong to mental images of a "perfect" swing

It might sound odd but its like if you see something one way and all of a sudden its a different way, you can tell the difference

Also i can identify what im doing wrong by videotaping my swing, and i usaully no a drill that will help me fix it

[sonicblue]

I think I'm changing my vote. As much as I feel like I can easily determine mine, and playing partners', swing faults, days like yesterday happen where I "just can't see" the solution, or at least can't make myself do it. Frustrating.....

[lynchjo]

My first "aha" moment in golf came about 4 years ago when I was about an 18 handicap and my brother-in-law, a scratch golfer, told me: "John, you gotta learn how to swing the golf club from the inside".

I am a right handed golfer and back then my ball flight was a slice (ball starts left of my target line then curves to the right). I had the dreaded "over the top move" when I started my down swing which meant my swing path was to the left of my target line leaving my club face open at impact (relative to my swing path)...thus...the dreaded slice!

I never really understood what my brother-in-law meant till many pain staking hours later that real power and accuracy is accomplished by swinging from the inside.

Once I figured out how to swing from the inside on a consistent basis, I became a single handicap player within 3 months (from an 18 handicap).

When I go to the range I see most golfers have this over the top move on their downswing which is why most golfers slice the ball.

If you learn how to swing the club from the inside, you will be well on your way to the promised land...

Hit 'em Long and Straight!

John Lynch

[JaY_B]

I would put myself between a 6 and a 7, In my opinion the more you know about the golf swing the more you realise you don't know, Give me a couple years once I'm finished at golf college and I will be more knowledgeable.

[dkinser86]

I rated myself a 3 on understanding the golf swing. I am rather young (21) and haven't played golf for very long (6 years) I have about an 8 HC. I have been considering going to a pro to take lessons, but haven't yet b/c of money issues. Also I am going to college and have to deal with all that. I've tried experimenting a bit here and there to see what works. I know how to do things, I just can't seem to physically do them.

[lolzzlolzz]

I voted 8 because I think Leadbetter is a bad teacher.

I've played for about a year, never had a lesson and don't ever plan to (no one knows how to teach golf properly these days).

The golf swing is very simple... anyone can learn a correct swing in not even years, but months.

[HansMoleman]

Whats hitting the ball from the inside?

[iacas]

Whats hitting the ball from the inside?

Hitting the inside, back quadrant of the golf ball.

Really, you hit the back of the ball, but since the club comes from the inside, it feels as if you're hitting the inside of the ball just a little bit.

[Andrew]

Handicap-14.8 Score-5

[odstore]

I voted 8 because I think Leadbetter is a bad teacher.

I've played for about a year, never had a lesson and don't ever plan to (no one knows how to teach golf properly these days).

The golf swing is very simple... anyone can learn a correct swing in not even years, but months.

This made me laugh, and if you've played for a year I highly doubt that you're an 8 HC.

[JackLee]

I voted 6. I understand my own swing, and if I mess up, I know immediately what I did wrong. As for helping someone else, I can see some obvious things, but I would probably need to see their swing on video in slow motion to help very much.

[ndirishgolf]

I am between a 6 and a 7. I know what works for me and can identify (usually without video) what I am doing wrong and can usually fix it without anyone's help. Because I have a self-taught swing, what works for me may not necessarily work for everyone but I have a lot of different "tricks" for each ailment I can experience. If I am trying to help someone, I will suggest some of these. I think my knowledge of the swing has evolved since I started playing.

Lately, when working on my swing, I have been trying to stay away from focusing on the feel of the fix because, once it becomes part of muscle memory, I have to exaggerate the motion to get the same feeling. I am now focusing on a specific position and visual cue. This has helped immensely for not only my fixes but when I help others as well.

[Richie3Jack]

I wouldn't use Leadbetter as an example. I've known too many people that have gotten lessons from him only to be completely screwed up and to come to me to get them straightened out. If you watch a lot of golfers that have worked with him, they tend to get flat and laid off at the top. They also tend to lose a lot of distance under his instruction. Ernie Els is a perfect example and it wasn't until Ernie switched to one of DL's disciples (can't remember the name) that his swing improved and he started to regain the distance he lost.

Hank Haney is probably a better person to use in this example. At the risk of sounding cocky, I gave myself a 9 since I do understand the swing perfectly as long as I have a decent video to record it with. I think in order to be at a 10 you'd have to be like Mac O'Grady and be able to analyze the faults of a swing without the use of a camcorder and have expert knowledge of kiniseology. I can sort of tell the flaws of a golf swing without a camcorder, but I'm nowhere near as accurate and I have a decent understanding of kiniseology, but I'm far from being an expert.



3JACK

[clemsontiger]

I am kind of a tweener from 5 to 6. I know what problems I am having and how to fix them, but sometimes that is just not enough. I still have to get some advice from someone else or a pro.