Disqualification for Wrong Scorecard Signature: Is it fair?

*ipark1303*

What's your opinion on this issue?

Is it fair to disqualify a player for a wrong scorecard (especially if the mistake was unintentional?)

Don't you agree we need a more fair and updated ruling on this one?

I might suggest players to get E&O (errors & omission) insurance!

*Q.Q.Quillume*

Yes, it's fair to disqualify a player for signing an incorrect scorecard.

**iacas**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q.Q.Quillume

Yes, it's fair to disqualify a player for signing an incorrect scorecard.

Agreed. Clearly it's fair - it's a rule. Thus, "fairness" isn't even a question.

*underparnv*

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Agreed. Clearly it's fair - it's a rule. Thus, "fairness" isn't even a question.

While I agree that it's a rule and it should be followed, I think that the penalty is a bit harsh.

I do believe that there should be a pretty steep penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard, but I don't think it should be a disqualification.

Then again, I can see the other side of the fence on this one as well. The player has the responsibility to ensure they keep their own card (as well as their competitors). How difficult is that??

Oh well...so much for my first disagreement with Erik!

**iacas**

Quote:

Originally Posted by underparnv

I do believe that there should be a pretty steep penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard, but I don't think it should be a disqualification.

As the guy on Sports Reporters said this morning about Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire in baseball: "cheating is like pregnancy: you can't cheat just a little bit."

Putting the wrong number down is one of the most basic things in golf. You put the right number down or you've cheated. Clearly we can't get into the "was it an honest mistake or not?" area - good rules are binary and without any grey areas.

*underparnv*

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

As the guy on Sports Reporters said this morning about Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire in baseball: "cheating is like pregnancy: you can't cheat just a little bit."

Putting the wrong number down is one of the most basic things in golf. You put the right number down or you've cheated. Clearly we can't get into the "was it an honest mistake or not?" area - good rules are binary and without any grey areas.

Good point. But why stop there? Why would the penalty for teeing in front of the tee markers be two strokes instead of a disqualification?

*cmarkmyers*

What about De Vicenzo at the Masters? He signed for a 66 when he actually shot a 65 and instead of going to a playoff he was stuck with second place. Now that is certainly better than a DQ but was it fair to golf and golf fans? Did the best player at the Masters actually win?

*EatDrinkSleepGolf*

What can't the PGA Tour staff tell the Pro right there in the trailer "Hey, I think your card is wrong, wanna recount it?"

**iacas**

Quote:

Originally Posted by underparnv

Good point. But why stop there? Why would the penalty for teeing in front of the tee markers be two strokes instead of a disqualification?

Because the penalty for doing that is clearly outlined. If you do it enough times (gross misconduct) you can be disqualified. It's one of the few grey areas in golf, and of course at the professional level it is never enforced (because nobody warrants it).

Keeping the proper score is one of the basic responsibilities on a player. They alone are responsible for their score. It's a core concept as far as I'm concerned.

We've had this discussion before, and I've been more thorough in those discussions. So if you want to keep discussing it with me, sorry, I'm out. I don't care to repeat myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarkmyers

What about De Vicenzo at the Masters? He signed for a 66 when he actually shot a 65 and instead of going to a playoff he was stuck with second place. Now that is certainly better than a DQ but was it fair to golf and golf fans? Did the best player at the Masters actually win?

Who cares about the fans? It was fair to De Vicenzo. Is it fair to fans that Phil Mickelson botched the 18th at Winged Foot? Maybe not - but it was within the rules.

Note that The Masters doesn't play under USGA rules by definition. They were free to change his card after the fact to reflect the score De Vicenzo actually shot. Bobby Jones himself made the final decision.

You can question the moral character of a lot of people in modern and 20th century athletics, but Bobby Jones ain't one of 'em.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EatDrinkSleepGolf

What can't the PGA Tour staff tell the Pro right there in the trailer "Hey, I think your card is wrong, wanna recount it?"

I think the official scorers in the tent don't know what players have shot. They're busy attending to official business, not watching a leaderboard or a broadcast.

Besides, as I said above, a player is responsible for their own score. So even if they knew I'd be against them saying anything as it opens a whole new set of doors: what if someone who doesn't like Tiger Woods fails to mention to him that he got a score wrong? Or Phil or Vijay or Sergio or "anyone but the top 50 in the world"? Or any other player? It opens the door to discrimination.

And again, it's just silly: the player is responsible for their own score. It's one of the basic tenets of golf. I could argue that the whole honor system we have in golf is based on "keep your own score honestly."