Moe Norman

[iacas]

As many know, MJonGolf has re-launched (again) and is focusing on the single-axis (i.e. "Moe Norman") golf swing. Here's a comment I posted to his site recently:

First, it's Vijay, not VJ. You know this, and since you're preaching something so "fringe," your detractors are going to look at every way to pick you apart. Not knowing the name of the world #2 is an easy target.

Second, good luck with all of this. You're going to need it, because you're going to get some tough questions. Those questions are going to be like:

a) If this swing is so good, why doesn't anyone swing with it?
b) Why hasn't anyone ever used this swing to win on the PGA Tour?
c) If Moe Norman was so good, why did he not play against - and beat - his conventional-swinging contemporaries?
d) How much distance am I going to give up going to this swing?

You could argue that most people don't use the swing simply because they've never heard of it, but Vijay knows about Moe - as you point out - yet continues to swing in a conventional fashion. The same holds true for Tiger Woods and countless other professionals. Nobody's ever won with a full Moe-like swing (I think someone, who was it, McCarron? McCallister? - used small parts of it and appears in some commercials) on the PGA Tour, and that's not likely to change. Moe may not have competed because of personality quirks, but there's no saying he would have won, either, had he played. It's speculation.

And lastly, nobody's enthralled with accuracy. Chicks dig the long ball... and so do golfers.

Overcoming those hurdles - those objections - is going to take a lot of time and effort. I don't agree that many golfers will reach their potential with the single-axis swing. I think that potential is the upper reaches of someone's abilities, and so long as they're leaving 5-20% of their distance in the bag, they're not going to reach their potential. They may improve or score better more quickly, but the word "potential" is a different beast than "get to be decent more quickly."

Good luck.

Vijay Singh, Tiger Woods, and a lot of other Touring pros all know Moe Norman. They've seen him, done exhibitions with him, and talked about him. Yet the continue to swing the conventional way.

That's pretty damning.

What do you think of the Moe Norman swing? What is your objection to it? Why don't you use it? What do you think of it?

[hig4s]

As many know, MJonGolf has re-launched (again) and is focusing on the single-axis (i.e. "Moe Norman") golf swing. Here's a comment I posted to his site recently:



Vijay Singh, Tiger Woods, and a lot of other Touring pros all know Moe Norman. They've seen him, done exhibitions with him, and talked about him. Yet the continue to swing the conventional way.

That's pretty damning.

What do you think of the Moe Norman swing? What is your objection to it? Why don't you use it? What do you think of it?

I think it is totally irrelevent. look at swings across the years from the best, say, Nickulas, woods, Palmer, Bobby Jones. Some very different swings here. And look at Count Yogi,, he played as well or better than all of them (wasn't allowed on tour back then because he was Native American) Again totally different. The one common thread was they all started young, copying the swings of the best players they knew until they found what worked for them. There is nothing wrong with a single plane swing if it works for a person, but even among the dual plane convention there are countless contridictions on what one should do. I have taken lessons from several different pros, I take what works for me from each lesson and move on. I'm the only person that can swing my clubs for me, and I have to believe in what I'm doing. For the most part, the things you are suppose to do for a single plane swing just don't seem to work for me.

[iacas]

I think it is totally irrelevent. look at swings across the years from the best, say, Nickulas, woods, Palmer, Bobby Jones. Some very different swings here.

Not really. They're all pretty much well on one side of the line, and Moe Norman's swing is clearly on the other. The swings you've listed had a lot more alike than they did different.

And look at Count Yogi,, he played as well or better than all of them (wasn't allowed on tour back then because he was Native American) Again totally different. The one common thread was they all started young, copying the swings of the best players they knew until they found what worked for them. There is nothing wrong with a single plane swing if it works for a person, but even among the dual plane convention there are countless contridictions on what one should do.

"Single Plane" is not really the same thing as the Moe Norman "single axis" swing. Peter Jacobsen was in Golf Digest as moving to a "single plane" player, but he ain't takin' Natural Golf lessons.

So, I'm not sure you're really talking about the same thing here...

[hig4s]

Other than the fact that Moe kept the ball away from him and had his arms extended to be straight with the club shaft (which is why it is called single axis) it is a single plane swing.

Also look at the pics.. http://www.moenorman.com/gallery.htm

at full back swing and at contact, he looks the same as Jones, Nickulas, Palmer.

Really I think Count Yogi had one of the most different swings as he intentionally, along with the big hip move (like in natural golf and like Bobby Jones) would sweep the club flatly along the ground and never took divots.

And my point is not everything works for everybody, it worked for Moe and some others, but until someone starts winning on the tour with it is hard take as comparable to what is recognized as correct.

And besides that the Natural Golf system is not exacatlly what Moe did,, He had a hip turn before impact which is not what they teach in NG..

A few years back I played the NG way,, and the more I got away from it and toward the standard way of playing the better I played.. And now I'm adding some of the ideas of Count Yogi and getting better again (but not the sweeping to avoid divots part).

My point is whatever works for a person it the right thing to do...

[iacas]

Other than the fact that Moe kept the ball away from him and had his arms extended to be straight with the club shaft (which is why it is called single axis) it is a single plane swing.

I'm not debating whether or not his swing exists in a single plane. I am saying, however, that Moe's swing is not the same as Peter Jacobsen's, for example, or many of the other "single-plane" players we see on the Tours today. Moe's swing was as much like the single-plane "standard" swingers as it is like the double-plane "standard" swingers.

Moe's swing:
a) employed a palmed grip
b) kept the arms and hands very far away from the body
c) started with an address position well behind the ball
d) "swept" the ball more than hit down (with irons)
e) did not produce as much lag and didn't produce as much power
f) may or may not produce more accuracy

Also look at the pics.. http://www.moenorman.com/gallery.htm
at full back swing and at contact, he looks the same as Jones, Nickulas, Palmer.

Not really...

Really I think Count Yogi had one of the most different swings as he intentionally, along with the big hip move (like in natural golf and like Bobby Jones) would sweep the club flatly along the ground and never took divots.

Bobby Jones learned to play with hickory-shafted clubs. The swings of that day were - by necessity - quite different than they are today. Bobby Jones' swing is far from a "modern" golf swing. There is still a lot we can learn from it, but it's not "modern" and wouldn't work as well with today's equipment as it did then.

As for Count Yogi, you're on your own here. I've never seen his swing. I have seen Moe Norman's, and I am simply asking some questions here.

[mediaguru]

I call him VJ all the time just so I don't have to type Vijay. Just like I call Phil "Lefty"...

Anyway. The Moe swing looks quite flat to me. Very "Justin Leonardy".... If it works for you do it. Doesn't look like it would fit me.