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Posts by sacm3bill

 I would disagree that it's based on what's published. What's published describes how to proceed for an "unplayed" hole vs "unfinished or not played under the principles of golf" hole.  The single response we have from the USGA hotline is an interpretation of what "unplayed" means.  Most if not all people, if they had no knowledge of that response, would logically assume that once you've made a stroke at the ball on the tee, you've started the hole and it would therefore...
 No, that's not what Fourputt was saying, or would say. We were talking about a specific scenario where you had a lost ball off the tee with no provisional, and decided to pick up instead of going back to the tee.  Fourputt considers that an unplayed hole (based on a USGA response). I'm sure Fourputt, the USGA, and everyone else considers a gimme putt an unfinished hole. That being said, one of the many problems with that position is determining at what point a hole goes...
 Oops, just noticed I misspoke there and it's too late to edit the original. What I meant to say was, "I don't see how not taking par plus on a hole where you've already jacked a ball or two out of bounds is sandbagging..."
 I'd just point out that there is no one stance, given that Erik has talked to representatives who say the opposite of what the "hotline" people told me. It's unfortunate that the hotline people ignored my specific questions about their rationale and instead fell back on stock responses. At one point I even asked them if the rationale was to prevent sandbagging (one explanation that has been suggested by sandtrap members), and they ignored that question too. But I don't...
  In MEfree's defense I didn't take his post that way. He was just saying you're the only one he knows dong it the way that particular response from USGA said to do it.
  Exactly.  It's not any more reasonable to predict par+handicap for an unplayed hole as it is to predict par+handicap+2 for an unfinished hole where you're still on the tee box after your first ball is OB.  Yep. In my experience writing to the hotline, it's been difficult to communicate, and to get them to answer the questions I've asked if it involved more than just quoting the manual.  It doesn't seem that the hotline is necessarily manned by experts. Certainly if...
 As far as that goes, the answer is going to depend on the person. I'd rather pay by the ball since I'm a slow, methodical range hitter. It would be less economical for me to pay per time slice, but it would be more economical for a scrape-and-hit, scrape-and-hit practicer.
 Re the last part being debatable: I guess, but I bet if a poll was done the overwhelming majority would rather drive a cart around a golf course selling beverages than work in fast food. Re the rest, ok. But like I said before, I wasn't trying to say it's ok to not tip the cart girl, just agreeing with those saying it's kind of strange that the expectation is to tip them as much as if they were a food server in a restaurant  Right, I covered that when I...
 But face it, fast food employees also work harder than cart girls. Food servers do more work than fast food employees, but they are compensated in the form of tips. Fast food workers work harder than cart girls, but they are compensated in the form of higher base pay. I guess the above can be debated, but I don't think you can debate that driving around in a cart all day, even if the weather isn't ideal, is a lot easier than fast food work. That's my main point.
 A typical McDonald's employee spends 7 or 8 hours on their feet in a hot, greasy kitchen environment and/or has to deal with a bunch of customers who aren't out necessarily in the good moods that most people out playing golf are in.  Yet, again, they aren't tipped. And on chilly days there aren't going to be as many golfers out there to sell to in the first place. Not saying either job is easy, and not saying you shouldn't tip the cart girl, just saying I think there are...
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