Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

[ks8829]

I played cavity backs and transition into blades with the mp 30 that are half blades and cavities into full blades, the mp33. I notice my missed are not from contact but from directon, so I will hit it solid and simply working on direction control. I have hit a 5 iron thin and I may lose 10 yards, so instead of being pin high, I will be short on-line 10 yards.

If you are a good ball stricker and like to work the ball, blades sound ideal. Have you tried hitting them on a grassy range or played a round with blades. I still remember the first time I went to the driving range when I received the clubs in the mail and was pleasantly suprised how easy they were to hit and the mystery or apprehension regarding blades disappeared.

I play blades because they offer so much feedback, feel and control. I will try other clubs and they feel bulky, its similar to driving a BMW with sport package with great handling and response, then driving a camry and going around curves.

[Blades4me]

Blades4me

The study I read that was done on the Iron Byron with mb vs cb had the cb's dispersion much higher than mb's.

Although the AP2's have gained wide acceptance and are a good club I not impressed with them. I much perfer Mizuno to Titleist, but that is just me. And I prefer my old 1978 Wilson Staff Tour blades to my Mizzy's. Crazy I know; maybe its b/c I learned how to golf back in the early 60's when there weren't any gimicks or short cuts to learning how to swing a club correctly. All it took was a couple of mis hits with that old 3i and one would really start to focus on hitting the 3i or pull it from the bag. Pain can be a very good teacher.

[Blades4me]

I played cavity backs and transition into blades with the mp 30 that are half blades and cavities into full blades, the mp33. I notice my missed are not from contact but from directon, so I will hit it solid and simply working on direction control. I have hit a 5 iron thin and I may lose 10 yards, so instead of being pin high, I will be short on-line 10 yards.

Well said. I like the analogy of blades to a really high performance sports car or a really hot chick,,,,,you have to have skill and neither will put up with crap.

[James_Black]

The study I read that was done on the Iron Byron with mb vs cb had the cb's dispersion much higher than mb's.

On sweet spot hits?

Very true, a off-centre/ thinned shot with one of my Sam Snead blades will help you get back on track pretty fast/

[colin007]

iacas posted a link to an article that did robot testing on both types, and essentially it came up with the cavity backs being father off-line than the blades on an off center hit. so you may not be as long as with the cavity backs, but youll be more accurate.

[sean_miller]

iacas posted a link to an article that did robot testing on both types, and essentially it came up with the cavity backs being father off-line than the blades on an off center hit. so you may not be as long as with the cavity backs, but youll be more accurate.

If you're consistently hitting

fairly close to the COG. If your irons are fit properly, it isn't like brain surgery - there's a little wiggle room.

[dbuck]

Caution: Opinion coming

The sweet spot is just that, a spot. Easiest with a putter but you can do it with an iron-hold the shaft about halfway up between thumb and forefinger. Tap on the face of the club with one finger of the other hand. The spot where it goes straight back with no vibration is the sweet spot.

The difference in CB and MB is the distance from that spot that you can contact the ball and get a result more or less equal to hitting the spot. On my old 79 Wilson Staff Tour Blades it is about a dime or maybe a nickel. On my 92 Titleist DCI (gold pyramid) it is larger, thus more "forgiveness". If I hit ten balls with my blades and 10 with my cavities, the "group" from the cavity will be about twice as tight as the blades, but the best shots with either are equal. Someone above said, "a well struck shot is a well struck shot." As to working the ball, I don't that much but especially trajectory is easier with my blades. My DCI's 1-5 have a pretty good offset where as 6-PW are less and I think that has more effect on working than just MB vs CB.

I am "not worthy" of blades, but I play them because I like them and get instant feedback as to how I am swinging.

[sean_miller]

Caution: Opinion coming

I cheat myself every day too - unworthy blades user since 1992.

The best feedback is always ball flight - some older instructors don't even look at a new student's swing on the first day - they stand off to the side and watch the ball in flight.

[Shanks A Million]

Caution: Opinion coming

Eh, close to true. The "sweet spot" is the same size on all clubs, it doesn't even take up any space, it's a theoretical point in space, never any larger, never any smaller. The presence or absence of a cavity doesn't mean that much, it's the moment of inertia (MOI), or resistance to twisting that determines the forgiveness.

MOI can be explained pretty simply. Imagine the a roulette wheel. Now, imagine spinning the wheel by hand. If you grabbed the outside, you'd need less energy to turn it, but it would turn slower. Now, if you grabbed it near the center, it would require more energy to turn, but it would turn much faster. We all understand this basic bit of physics. This is moment of inertia. If you were to take a bunch of the weight from the outside of the wheel, and move it to the inside, it would turn much easier. This is because you reduced the MOI. If you were to take all the weight and move it to the outside, it would be much harder to turn. This is because you've increased the MOI. Weight near the perimeter of a rotating object must travel farther, and thus, it is appears heavier. This is how the cavity works. It's got the weight near the perimeter, which means it's harder to rotate. Because of that, more energy is transferred on an off center hit. All clubs, blades and SGI, have MOI. The question is how much. On a blade, it's much lower than a cavity. This is why they go farther on an on center hit (like the wheel turned from the inside spins faster), but are harder to hit. It's a trade off.

[dbuck]

Great explanation, Shanks.

I am not a scientist, nor do I portray one on TV.

Agree the "sweet spot" is the same size on all clubs. It is a real point though, so it must take up some space, but that space is infinitely small. It is the center of the center of the center of a point to infinity. I didn't mean to say the sweet spot on my blades is a dime and larger on the CB; but that the area around the point that gives a more or less equal result is larger. Which is what you explained in better terms.

[ND Fan]

Blades in my opinion are vastly over rated. I have owned several sets of true blades, Hogans, Maxfli Australian blades, Mizunos and my most recent Wood Brothers. I play with Wilson's Pi5 now and haven't looked back. They offer the same thin top line I like with little or no offset and they are by far easier to hit now that i don't play and practice as often as I used to.

Golf is a game where ego and performance have an unbelievable ability to clash. I use what works best and for me it's cavity backs that are traditional looking. I am sure at some point in this game there was a discussion regarding whether or not Hickory shafts were better than steel. There are not but I'll assume for many years after steel was introduced there were still plenty of good players that insisted that Hickory was the way to go simply because they couldn't give up what was comfortable for them. Going from cavity backs to blades is a step backwards in my opinion.

In the end you have to be the one to decide what works best for you. For me I like the knowledge that my cavity back 3 iron will give me a better chance at full and solid contact.

[sean_miller]

I use what works best and for me it's . . .

In what little I've read on the subject, there was relatively little debate over hickory shafts. Like blades, some "purists" wanted to feel a connectedness with the game as it was played in the past - wth equipment relatively unchanged since the game's inception, using a curved wooden stick.

The thing is, by the time players had the option to use the more consistent, manufactured metal shafts, the ball was already something the game's forefathers wouldn't have recognized. The newer balls were so hard in fact, compared to previous versions, that hickory shafted and headed clubs simply no longer had a place in the game. They would eventually shatter/splinter on impact. Your handicap indicates you'd probably kick my ass on your worst day with any iron, but I fail to see how two otherwise identical irons, differing only in permiter weighting, would be any more or less likely to lead to "full and solid contact". Or are you suggesting the perimeter weighted iron inspires confidence by creating the illusion of full and solid contact on strikes that are slightly off centre? I'll give you that one. In fact, if the vast majority of players CBs weren't so fugly and overpriced, I might even add a used set to the rotation.

[golf_junkie27]

Jay,

I use both blades and CBs in the long irons. (forget my signature as it's always changing). The only difference I have noticed is forgiveness. The CBs I have are almost identical in certain aspects: sole size, offset and topline. With the profiles being similar, I can pretty much do everything with the CBs that I do with the blades and visa versa. Also, the lofts are identical as both Mizuno and Wishon believe in traditional lofts.

IMHO, I believe that you won't lose anything by going to blades as long as they fall in line, criteria wise, as the clubs you are playing now. Additionally, whatever difference you may find in ball flight can be rectified with a shaft change. Any clubmaker worth his salt can recommend the necessary changes.

[ks8829]

I recently switch from a two ball putter to a blade style Yonex ADX chrome blade putter, Phil used many years ago, when he was 25 years old. I putt with the same amount of putter per round and with more feel and better distance control.

Picture below

http://www.golfreview.com/cat/putter...x.aspx#reviews

[ET-Taylor]

I recently switch from a two ball putter to a blade style Yonex ADX chrome blade putter, Phil used many years ago, when he was 25 years old. I putt with the same amount of putter per round and with more feel and better distance control.

My dad uses a putter like that and he is one of the best long putters in our area

[Primate]

Just an update since the new purchase season is coming back around and someone may find this thread of use.... The 52's, while not a true blade, was still the best purchase I have made.

[motteler621]

i like forged blades much better. They just feel better than a fat iron trying to go through the rough,lol,

[soloredd]

I think it comes down to the individual. Go hit everything you can. I agree with a previous poster, ego does have a lot to do with it. For me, I've learned to play within myself. I used to ask guys I play with all the time what club they hit and why I wasn't hitting that far. Well, I realized that my wedge game is a lot more dialed in than my mid-irons and these same friends ask me what wedge I use. So, I decided to go with the Diablo forged irons instead of the MP-58, even though I spent several trips to Golfsmith hitting the Mizunos. I just had to be honest with myself and figure out which one would give me more enjoyment.