Plugged Ball on Fringe

[kregan]

Today I had an approach shot to a green plug itself on the first cut/fringe of the green. I could not mark and move the ball since I was on the fringe so I asked my playing partners what to do. They said move so I did. I moved the ball about 1" to the left of the plug.

What is the proper thing to do if lift clean and place rules are not specified for that day?

[Fourputt]

Today I had an approach shot to a green plug itself on the first cut/fringe of the green. I could not mark and move the ball since I was on the fringe so I asked my playing partners what to do. They said move so I did. I moved the ball about 1" to the left of the plug.

By placing the ball you should have incurred a penalty of 1 stroke for placing when you should have dropped.

Rule 25-2 applies: The proper procedure was to lift, clean the ball if needed, then drop in the same place. If the ball rolled back into the pitch mark, then you repeat the procedure. If it lands in the pitch mark again, then you place the ball where it first hit the ground on the 2nd drop.

25-2. Embedded Ball A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green. "Closely mown area" means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

[cdj588]

dont worry about the rules

[Fourputt]

dont worry about the rules

There's the voice of genius.... NOT!!

[DJYoshi]

Today I had an approach shot to a green plug itself on the first cut/fringe of the green. I could not mark and move the ball since I was on the fringe so I asked my playing partners what to do. They said move so I did. I moved the ball about 1" to the left of the plug.

Here's something that Erik provided. I've been reading 10 pages a day b/c I've been SHAFTED when i didn't know the rules.

btw, your bag is only 92% taylormade. hahaha http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/pdf/2008ROG.pdf

[kregan]

Thanks guys... Next time I will drop.

I will fix that % right now!

[O'cookie]

I am pretty sure I know that I don't get relief, But let me ask, I plugged the ball today, about 5 feet off the green on a par 3. The location of the plug is also in an area that had left over tire tracks from the mowers, Super soft muddy grass. I played it as it was, Flew the green into the hard pan bunker across the green, flew the green again back to where I started. Chip, two putt Any chance of relief given the winter conditions (8 inches of snow last weekend, 73 degrees today), or how about ground under repair from tire tracks, No indication from grounds staff (paint)

[kafka01]

Also check for your local rules - during the beginning of the season when a lot of plugged balls happen we are allowed to lift and place the ball within one length of a scorecard on all mowed areas. If you dont have anything like that - just use rule 25-2 as stated above.

[Fourputt]

I am pretty sure I know that I don't get relief, But let me ask, I plugged the ball today, about 5 feet off the green on a par 3. The location of the plug is also in an area that had left over tire tracks from the mowers, Super soft muddy grass. I played it as it was, Flew the green into the hard pan bunker across the green, flew the green again back to where I started. Chip, two putt Any chance of relief given the winter conditions (8 inches of snow last weekend, 73 degrees today), or how about ground under repair from tire tracks, No indication from grounds staff (paint)

When playing with just your own group, then your group is it's own committee. That is, it serves the function of a competition committee in a tournament. So I and my playing companions would have made a value judgment on the spot and if it seemed warranted, we'd have declared the area as abnormal ground (that is what ground under repair actually is in the rules) and determined a reasonable boundary for the area and taken relief without penalty.

You aren't automatically obligated to play from damaged or poorly maintained parts of the course just because you don't have a tournament committee to identify and mark such areas for relief. But you should use some common sense when making such decisions. If you hit your ball in to a situation where you wouldn't have a shot even if the lie was perfect, then you shouldn't give yourself a free pass just because you've got a bad lie. Sometimes you still just have to take your medicine.

[RemyM]

I am pretty sure I know that I don't get relief, But let me ask, I plugged the ball today, about 5 feet off the green on a par 3. The location of the plug is also in an area that had left over tire tracks from the mowers, Super soft muddy grass. I played it as it was, Flew the green into the hard pan bunker across the green, flew the green again back to where I started. Chip, two putt Any chance of relief given the winter conditions (8 inches of snow last weekend, 73 degrees today), or how about ground under repair from tire tracks, No indication from grounds staff (paint)

Under rule 25.2 relief from an embedded ball is only in a closely mown area (fairway height or less). However, a local rule Appendix 1(4) is allowed to be adopted to allow relief "through the green". So if you club invoked that local rule you would get relief. Also you may have been entitled to relief under rule 25.1 abnormal ground condition due to casual water.

[Fourputt]

Under rule 25.2 relief from an embedded ball is only in a closely mown area (fairway height or less). However, a local rule Appendix 1(4) is allowed to be adopted to allow relief "through the green". So if you club invoked that local rule you would get relief. Also you may have been entitled to relief under rule 25.1 abnormal ground condition due to casual water.

It isn't even necessary for the club to institute the LR unless it's a club competition. A casual foursome is considered as it's own committee, and as such can make such determinations themselves when they are the only ones affected. Care should be used if the scores are to be posted for handicap, because if such a group is overly generous to themselves, all they are doing is posting a lower score than they would be able to play to in a competition where the committee isn't as liberal with relief. But even then all it does is hurt their own handicaps, so the USGA doesn't disallow such a score.

[Zeph]

25-2. Embedded Ball A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green. "Closely mown area" means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

Let's see if I get this right. If the ball is embedded in any part of the course, that being rough, heavy rough, fairway, fringe etc. you may pick it up, clean it and drop it without penalty. On the green you can mark, lift the ball, clean it, repair the hole made from the ball and replace the ball without penalty.

On one of my local courses there is a local rule that state the rule 25-2 is expanded to apply for the whole playing field. This is where I'm confused, doesn't the rules state that you get relief from this situation anywhere on the playing field except tee area and hazards? I use all my rounds as statistic for my handicap, so I play every round accordingly to the rulebook. I don't want to develop bad habits of taking relief from this and that either. I play the game by the official rules and local ones of any apply.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Let's see if I get this right. If the ball is embedded in any part of the course, that being rough, heavy rough, fairway, fringe etc. you may pick it up, clean it and drop it without penalty.

You've forgotten the parts about "closely mown area."

A course can create a local rule extending it "everywhere through the green," but unless that local rule is in place, the only places you can lift, clean, and drop an embedded ball is the fairway, the fringe, and the tee (not your tee, and the putting green rules allow you to do it on your putting green) as it's all grass cut to "fairway height or lower."

The green as I said has its own rules, and in fact other putting greens have different rules than your own (since they don't want you hitting 7-irons from a green on another hole).

Some courses apply the local rule so you can do it in the rough, and I believe it's on the hard card for the PGA Tour.

Quote:

a. Lifting an Embedded Ball, Cleaning

Temporary conditions that might interfere with proper playing of the game, including mud and extreme wetness, warranting relief for an embedded ball anywhere through the green or permitting lifting, cleaning and replacing a ball anywhere through the green or on a closely mown area through the green .

Quote:

a. Relief for Embedded Ball

Rule 25-2 provides relief, without penalty, for a ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in any closely mown area through the green . On the putting green , a ball may be lifted and damage caused by the impact of a ball may be repaired (Rules 16-1b and c ). When permission to take relief for an embedded ball anywhere through the green would be warranted, the following Local Rule is recommended:

"Through the green, a ball that is embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground may be lifted, without penalty, cleaned and dropped as near as possible to where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.

Exceptions:

1.

A player may not take relief under this Local Rule if the ball is embedded in sand in an area that is not closely mown.

2.

A player may not take relief under this Local Rule if interference by anything other than the condition covered by this Local Rule makes the stroke clearly impracticable.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:

Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes."

[Zeph]

Ok, they should have defined "Closely mown area". A light rough can be looked at as a closely mown area without being so.

So on my local course, the difference is that you can drop from anywhere on the course, including rough, semi rough, heavy rough etc. What about the bunker? The local rule states: "Area for relief in case of embedded ball accordingly to rule 25-2 is expanded to the whole playing field."
I suppose the bunker is part of the playing field, but it sounds strange that I should be allowed to get relief from an embedded ball in the bunker.

[RemyM]

Ok, they should have defined "Closely mown area".

The USGA did:

"Closely mown area" means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less .

[Zeph]

I'll be back with further questions once I get my eyes fixed.

I guess that rules out the bunker also, I'm no greenkeeper, but I suppose it's difficult to mow any grass in a bunker.

[RemyM]

So on my local course, the difference is that you can drop from anywhere on the course, including rough, semi rough, heavy rough etc. What about the bunker? The local rule states: "Area for relief in case of embedded ball accordingly to rule 25-2 is expanded to the whole playing field."

That local rule is written wrong. It should say "through the green."

4. Course Conditions — Mud, Extreme Wetness, Poor Conditions and Protection of the Course g a. Relief for Embedded Ball Rule 25-2 provides relief, without penalty, for a ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in any closely mown area through the green. On the putting green, a ball may be lifted and damage caused by the impact of a ball may be repaired (Rules 16-1b and c). When permission to take relief for an embedded ball anywhere through the green would be warranted, the following Local Rule is recommended: “Through the green, a ball that is embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground may be lifted, without penalty, cleaned and dropped as near as possible to where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green. Exceptions: 1. A player may not take relief under this Local Rule if the ball is embedded in sand in an area that is not closely mown. 2. A player may not take relief under this Local Rule if it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than the condition covered by this Local Rule. penalty for Breach Of LOCAL Rule: Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.” Through the Green “Through the green” is the whole area of the course except: a. The teeing ground and putting green of the hole being played; and b. All hazards on the course. To answer an upcoming question. Teeing Ground The “teeing ground” is the starting place for the hole to be played. It is a rectangular area two club-lengths in depth, the front and the sides of which are defined by the outside limits of two tee-markers. A ball is outside the teeing ground when all of it lies outside the teeing ground. So it's not all teeing areas in front of you, just the part where you start the hole from. So a pop up that embeds ahead of you on the tee area would be entitled to relief. I coppied and pasted the rules and definitions from: http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/pdf/2008ROG.pdf

[iacas]

[QUOTE=RemyM;266358]That local rule is written wrong. It should say "through the green."

What he said.

I guess that rules out the bunker also, I'm no greenkeeper, but I suppose it's difficult to mow any grass in a bunker.

You don't get relief for a ball buried in a bunker, no. And that local rule should really only be used when the course is unusually wet or something - most of the time you shouldn't need the local rule.