Swing like Moe?

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

Forgive me (or better yet, reply with links to the discussions) if this topic has already been thoroughly hashed out on here, but I have some questions about this swing method:

A growing number of teaching pros are teaching a swing method that's very different from the conventional swing, based on the way Moe Norman (retired Canadian pro with an impressive history on the Canadian tour) swung the club. Specifically, as far as I can tell, it's based on the way Todd Graves, who studied with Moe Norman for years, has developed Moe's swing ideals into a set of fundamentals to teach beginners, on the theory that the swing is simpler and the coordination involved is easier to master. The swing is a true single-plane swing, where the arms, hands, and club are on the same plane and in the same position at address as they will be at impact (only the lower body is in a different position at address and impact).

Here's a lot of information on it: www.swinglikemoe.com .

So the reason I'm bringing it up is that I'm a beginner, and when I took my first lesson from a teaching pro, the pro happened to be one who taught this technique. I wonder if anyone else on here has been taught it or has tried it (or teaches it), or if anyone has any comments on why it's a good or bad way to learn to swing, or if anyone has some insight as to its pitfalls or its strengths.

I'm not sure about it yet, as it has become apparent to me that a relatively low percentage of the golfing public swings this way. I want to make sure I'm using fundamentals that I'm going to be able to stick with, and not a gimmicky swing that I may eventually decide I have to abandon and start over learning a new swing.

Thanks!

-Andrew

[Mr.Wedge]

I believe Moe Normans success had less to do with the single plane aspect and more to do with his swinging the triangle of the arms and shoulders, which when learned, is a very simple and repeatable method of execution, not to mention accurate and powerful.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

I believe Moe Normans success had less to do with the single plane aspect and more to do with his swinging the triangle of the arms and shoulders, which when learned, is a very simple and repeatable method of execution, not to mention accurate and powerful.

I think the solid triangle of the arms and shoulders is a key aspect of good golf swings of all styles, whether they be single-plane or more complex.

However, my question was not about the key to Moe Norman's success, it was about the single-plane swing that my instructor taught me in my first lesson. So to repeat: I wonder if anyone else on here has been taught this swing style or has tried it (or teaches it), or if anyone has any comments on why it's a good or bad way to learn to swing, or if anyone has some insight as to its pitfalls or its strengths. -Andrew

[Richie3Jack]

I agree with certain parts of Moe's swing, but the big flaw I see with his swing is the lack of body rotation. Moe wasn't known for distance and his lack of body rotation was why. Also, it can be difficult to hit is straight if you don't have proper hip rotation.

But the best things to take away from Moe are how his hands are high at address and how he gets the arms extended at impact.





3JACK

[tm22721]

I don't know about single plane swing but Moe Norman (Ben Hogan too) got the hands and clubhead back to the address position at impact. He did it by literally screwing his right foot clockwise into the ground during the backswing creating an early lateral hip shift to the target. This made the transition automatic, ie it occurred by the end of the backswing. Since most of the weight was already shifted to the left foot, all that was left to be done was to turn the hips whipping the club through the ball. Both Norman and Hogan had laser precision due to this unique move.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

I agree with certain parts of Moe's swing, but the big flaw I see with his swing is the lack of body rotation. Moe wasn't known for distance and his lack of body rotation was why. Also, it can be difficult to hit is straight if you don't have proper hip rotation.

I have been working on getting my body rotation to be consistent, because it's an essential part of my swing. You're right, that looking at Moe there isn't as much rotation, and in fact there's a lot of lateral shift in his swing, but neither of those aspects were taught to me by my instructor. I was taught to rotate my shoulders to about 90*, and my hips to about 45*, and to rotate them through together on the downswing so that at impact my shoulders are square and my hips are about 45* open. I haven't mastered that rotation yet, but I'm making progress and slowly getting more consistent.

I was taught to take a much shorter backswing with my arms since my natural backswing was too long and it was detrimental to swing timing and control. Before I was going significantly past parallel, and now I stop a bit short of parallel. I was surprised I didn't lose any power with the shorter backswing. Also, distance is last on my list of priorities for improvement in my golf game. I carry my driver 270 or more on my best drives, and I hit a 6 iron to about 180 when I catch the ball right, meaning distance is actually the strongest aspect of my game. Really the hands super-high, arms extended, club-never-leaves-the-plane-at-all aspect of the swing were the ones I was wondering about. So we have one vote here for "that's a good idea as long as you still incorporate good body rotation and the right weight transfer". Anyone want to add/second/contradict? -Andrew Anybody have any other comments on the swing, other than

[Mike Wilson]

I have been using the Moe Norman method as taught by Little Moe, Todd Graves since 2003.

I was a 22 index with a bad back and a wicked slice, not a very good combination for golf. Within 3 years I was down to an 8 index and my back was no longer an issue.

It is not a secret that there are many pros with back issues, the entire conventional golf swing with twisting and lifting causes a lot of back torque.

The Moe Norman method still has a hip turn, not as pronounced as conventional methods, but without the lifting of the spine and twisting, which causes pain.

My 7 iron was always my 150yd club, and still is. My driver will be in the 235yd range. I have had 3 holes in one, shot 71 at my home course with a slope of 128, and have won my flight twice coming second many times. This means this system has not cost me any yards for being too short. Tim Graves drives the ball 3ooyds consistently and his short game is amazing too!

Kelly Murray, who was on one of the big breaks has performed in Longest Drive competitions, is using this method.

My cart that had a seat so I could sit down often has been retired and I can now walk 36 holes a day without tylenol or worse to alleviate the pain.

From fall to spring, with no golf in between living in Ontario Canada, I find the fundamentals of the Moe Norman swing allows for the rust to be gone quickly, and I am in mid season form quickly.

The Moe Norman method has expanded worldwide, and 1000's of students in China have been exposed and are becoming exceptional players with this method.

There are many using Moe Norman method that have become scratch and even plus handicaps.

The conventional swing is much harder to coordinate and learn than the Moe Norman method.

I am 62, and have been golfing better in the last 12 years than I have ever golfed in my life....pain-free too!

If you want a simple swing to learn and that will help you enjoy the game more, then give the Moe Norman method a good long look. You will not be disappointed.

[David in FL]

Welcome to the site, Mike. Hope you'll stick around! :beer:

[Mike Wilson]

Thanks David, I saw there was an update and it was a pleasant surprise to see it was your welcome message!

I look forward to participating.

[efdeel74]

it's been two months since i learn single plane swing by my self (plus internet).... i am happy with it....maybe i can upload my swing video on youtube in my next go to driving range... after that, i will update my first time score at golf course with single plane swing.

[LeanMachine]

My swing is similar to Mo Norman's, and he inspired me to change everything. Before I had a very "wrist-rotaty" swing, and I felt like I was trying to flip the clubhead through the ball and time it perfectly.

About 2 months ago I switched to the "Mo Norman grip" with your back hand under the club holding it in the lifeline. I like it for a few reasons. 1For one, I am able to eliminate all the wrist rotation movement. That was really causing me to spray the ball all over, and even my good shots were a few feet left or right at best. With this grip it's much easier to have the clubface square at impact, hence straight shots for me - not just straighter in general, but way fewer "really bad misses".

Another reason I like it is because of how it affects the way your wrists bend. Many vardon grip players have a real scoopy motion at the bottom of the swing. Among other things, this can really increase the chance of hitting thin.With the Mo grip I find it really hard to "over release" the hinge on the downswing so my hand never fall into the bad behind-the-ball position.

Another thing that has helped me is swinging "at the target". In Mo's videos he makes fun of other golfers, "When they are swinging where to their clubs end up? Around their backs. I want the ball to go to the target,I swing at the target. They swing around the golf course. Their club swing points right into the trees. So where does their ball go? Rightinto the trees!" When my follow through is finished I try to have my chest hands and clubhead all in a line pointing at the target, and well, a whole lot of the time it goes to the target!

I do feel like sometimes on my driver I come through on an out-to-in path that puts sort of an unwanted fade on the ball, but it's nowhere near as bad as when I wasn't using this grip.