Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

[PEZGolf]

I like Tiger, but Jack had the best pants.

At least, he NEVER wore PINK, like Ian Poulter. I think many golfers are TOO BLAND, but Ian is from another planet.

[bobsuruncle]

I started playing golf in Feb 1997 and watched in awe as Tiger Woods won the Masters in April that same year. When he went on to win multiple majors, some in spectacular fashion by lapping the field, I've been a huge Tiger fan ever since. Sure, he has a little way to go before he catches Jack's 18 Majors but he's still ahead of the curve (ie he's winning the same number of majors at a younger age). Let's hope that his ACL injury doesn't do long term harm to his career. Even if it slows him down some, I still believe he'll "find a way to get it done".

[bigoak]

Research someone named Byron Nelson. How many consecutive tournaments did he win? Iron Byron is the testing robot for testing clubs and balls. Whose swing is this machine modeled after?

[PEZGolf]

Research someone named Byron Nelson. How many consecutive tournaments did he win?

Of course, you are talking about the Magical Year of 1945, when Byron won 11 PGA Tourmanets in a row, and 18 overall---two records that will probably last forever. His stroke average was 68.45, and get this---after he won a couple early in the season, Slammin' Sammy Snead won three in a row, and sportwriters were calling it "Sam's Season". Boy, did they get that wrong.

[tehdeuce]

I'm a fan of Tiger just because I "attempt" to model my swing plane like his. Jack will always have a special place, though.

[grahamlee]

Tiger has the luxury of modern equipment, but I think he'd still whoop on ol Jackie boy with old clubs back in the day.

[Dale255]

Big Tiger fan but until he catches and passes Jack he will be number 2 in my book.

[ganjagolfer]

At least, he NEVER wore PINK, like Ian Poulter. I think many golfers are TOO BLAND, but Ian is from another planet.

pink is the new black

[Cavalier]

Someone has probably already said this but Jack and Tiger's reputations need to be evaluated in the context of their prime years. It would obviously be much easier to settle the question of who's greater if they both competed against the same pool of golfers.

[jrode]

I think Tiger is the best, but am I the only one that just doesn't care for the guy?

[PEZGolf]

Research someone named Byron Nelson. How many consecutive tournaments did he win?

Here is another name for people to think about

: Ben Hogan said about Jimmy Demaret: "He was the most underrated golfer IN HISTORY. This man played shots I hadn't even DREAMED OF. I learned them. But---it was Jimmy who showed them to me first." Hogan was NOT close to many players on the Tour because he was not very outgoing, and most players referred to him as "Mr. Hogan". He was famous for putting players "in their place". When Gary Player called him for advice, Hogan asked him whose clubs he used. Player responded, "Wilsons". "Then call Mr. Wilson and ask him for advice", and he hung up----Hogan of course had his own equipment company that manufactured clubs One player who could joke around with Hogan and not only get away with it, but had Hogan like it, was Jimmy Demaret. The first time that he played with the "Wee Ice Mon", Demaret walked up to him, slapped him on the back, and asked, "How are you, BEN?". He could do that because Hogan respected the man and the player that Demaret was. By the way, he won 3 Masters and Hogan was in the field for all three, along with Byron and Sammy Snead. To golf fans, Demaret is famous for two things: 1. He was co-host of the original "Shell's Wonderful World of Golf" with Gene Sarazen, and Demaret was selected to play in one of the matches. He and Sarazen formed a great team. 2. He was co-owner and architect of the Champions Golf Club with Jack Burke, Jr., another Masters Champion, who Demaret had babysat when Jack was a baby. That course is still rated as a Top Notch course, and is in the Houston area, where both he and Burke grew up. In recognition of his golfing accomplishments, he was selected to the original Golf Hall of Fame in Pinehurst, and was transferred over ("grandfathered" as they say) to the World Golf Hall of Fame. That HOF lists his record as follows: "In 1940 he won six consecutive tournaments including the Masters. He won six more and the Masters again in 1947, his best year, when he also led the money list and won the Vardon Trophy. In 1950, he won his third Masters and at the presentation grabbed the microphone and began singing, "Do You Know How Lucky You Are." The Hall of Fame golf journalist Herbert Warren Wind referred to Jimmy Demaret as the "Wardrobe" for his colorful attire. In the December 1993 issue of "Golf Digest", his preferences in this area were described as follows: "The drab uniformity of golf dress was anathema to his effervescent personality, so was the dour solemnity of the players' deportment. (my note: Hogan was the model golfer in both respects). Demaret well understood that a professional golfer had to be a public entertainer as well if THE SPORT WAS TO PROSPER (my caps). He found a New York importer of colorful British cltoh, really intended as material for the WOMEN'S haute couture market." In other words, he was the Payne Stewart of his day. BUT-----for Hogan to praise his shotmaking ability is probably the HIGHEST PRAISE that any golfer could receive.

[rdm0302]

Tiger...he's making history and is doing things the game has never seen.

[PEZGolf]

Tiger...he's making history and is doing things the game has never seen.

He is making history and doing SOME things the game has never seen, just like these guys and gals did, and their accomplishments have never been MATCHED OR SURPASSED by anyone, including Tiger:

1. Bob Jones---won the Grand Slam in 1930, one calendar year 2. Gene Sarazen---only golfer to get a double eagle (albatross) on the last few holes in the Final Round of a Major (1935 Masters---he did it on the 15th hole, a par 5) 3. Byron Nelson---won 11 PGA Tournaments in a row and 18 in one calendar year 4. Ben Hogan--many records, but one stands out--the only golfer to ever win the Masters, the US Open, and the Open Championship in one calendar year. Many golfers, including Tiger, Arnie, Craig Wood, Jack have won the first two, but only Hogan won the first three. He also won 4 US Opens in 6 years, and in 1953, won 5 of the 6 tournaments he entered, for a win-loss percentage of .8333. 5. Harry Vardon-----won SIX Open Championships. Only one to do so. Tom Watson, James Braid, JH Taylor, and Peter Thomson won five each. 6. Babe Didrikson Zaharias---won 2 gold medals and 1 silver in the 1932 Olympics BEFORE trying golf out, and then became a GREAT Champion golfer. No other golfer has won gold medals in the Olympics and Golf Championships as well. Most have never been good enough to qualify for the Olympics. My point is that Tiger is achieving many milestones but the ones named above he has NOT tied or beat, and some of them, he never can. He cannot match Bob Jones since the Grand Slam is winning the US Amateur, the US Open, the British Amateur, and the Open Championship in one calendar year. Tiger is now a pro, and not an amateur, so he is ineligible for the British and US Amateurs. Let us praise Tiger for his achievements and enjoy them, BUT let us NOT forget the achievements of the Greats that came before him.

[iacas]

1. Bob Jones---won the Grand Slam in 1930, one calendar year

Yeah, and that included two amateur events in a day and age when very few people golfed. It's not like he had the competition of golfers from even 1950 onward.

Plus, the "calendar year" is a silly distinction. Tiger held all four professional majors at one time. Who cares when the calendar says is a new year? He won four majors in a row. And two weren't amateur events.

2. Gene Sarazen---only golfer to get a double eagle (albatross) on the last few holes in the Final Round of a Major (1935 Masters---he did it on the 15th hole, a par 5)

So what?

4. Ben Hogan--many records, but one stands out--the only golfer to ever win the Masters, the US Open, and the Open Championship in one calendar year.

See above re: calendar years.

My point is that Tiger is achieving many milestones but the ones named above he has NOT tied or beat, and some of them, he never can. He cannot match Bob Jones since the Grand Slam is winning the US Amateur, the US Open, the British Amateur, and the Open Championship in one calendar year. Tiger is now a pro, and not an amateur, so he is ineligible for the British and US Amateurs.

That's not the grand slam anymore.

Let us praise Tiger for his achievements and enjoy them, BUT let us NOT forget the achievements of the Greats that came before him.

I don't think anyone is.

[PEZGolf]

Yeah, and that included two amateur events in a day and age when very few people golfed. It's not like he had the competition of golfers from even 1950 onward.

I enjoy good discussions, and you have made some interesting replies. I will respond to a couple: 1. Calendar year: it is important. There is a HUGE difference between winning 4 Majors in the period April to August, as opposed to taking a "winter break", recharging the batteries and resting and coming back to win one or more. When Byron Nelson's INCREDIBLE streak of 11 consecutive wins came to an end, he wrote in his little "Black Book" that he was RELIEVED. The physical and mental strain and the necessity of responding to media queries wore him out. Guess what? After that, he went on another streak, and finished the season with 18 total. Rest is important. Winning all four in a calendar year is EXTREMELY difficult. When Arnie, Jack, and Tiger won the first two, the media went crazy about the possibility of the first ever Professional Grand Slam. Arnie came in second to Kel Nagle at St. Andrews in the Open Championship and his streak came to an end. Lee Buck Trevino hit an ugly chip shot that went in on the 71st hole to beat Jack at Muirfield in 1972. Ernie Els stopped Tiger at Muirfield in 2002. That is the PROOF of the difficulty of even matching Ben Hogan's three in a row. Now, do not misunderstand me. The Tiger Slam is a GREAT achievement and I take my cap off to Tiger for achieving it-------------BUT it is NOT the same as a genuine Professional Grand Slam, and that is why it has the name "Tiger Slam" attached to it. 2. THE Grand Slam still exists. Tiger and Jack were amateur Champions and could have gone for it, but neither one was good enough to win the US Amateur and the US Open in the same year as an amateur. Bobby Jones was, and of course, won the Open Championship and the British Amateur as well. Related to point one, once he did it, and had a tough time in two of the wins, he immediately retired from competitive golf. He was 28 years old. The strain was too much. He had set that as his goal, and had to drink corn whiskey the night before playing to settle himself down, and he did not want to do that any more. Can you blame him? After Byron Nelson had his great year in 1945, he had enough, and made enough money to buy his dream ranch, so he retired to it. It seems to me that Annika is following in the footsteps of Mr. Jones and Mr. Nelson by getting out, and "pursuing other interests". You and I really do not know the intense strain that Mr. Jones, Mr. Nelson, Ms. Sorenstam and Mr. Woods went through. They are Champions, but even Champions get worn out.

[ganjagolfer]

I like Tiger, but Jack had the best pants.

tiger's pants are boring!

[Liam84]

Right now jack is still the greatest of all time, Tiger isn't there yet.
I really wish Tiger gets to pass him though, don't have anything against Jack but it will be great to watch Tiger doing it.

[chrisgolf37]

Its a tossup but I'm going with Tiger on this one.