Is it even possible to play well without distance?

[Baraethon]

I honestly am beginning to doubt that it is... and it's pretty freaking depressing. I tend to average about 150-160 off the tee with my driver, and I think it just absolutely kills my game. I want to play in WJGA tournaments this summer, but to do so I need to be averaging under 90. Right now, I shoot in the low 100's (thought it's been dropping like crazy, last three rounds: 117, 111, 103), and I just can't seem to break 100. I am fairly consistent with my 5 wood, which is basically the only club I use from the fairway. My home course is really short (longest hole: Par 3, 200 yrds back tees. Par 4, 360 back tees. par 5, 450 back tees. I never hit any of them in regulation) and I am certain that the moment I start playing longer courses in tourneys, I'm screwed. Even at my home course, it really, for me, is just a matter of hoping that I stick my 3rd shot close enough for a one putt. My short game is good, but it can't carry my whole score.

Anyways, my question is: Is it possible to play well without having any distance whatsoever off the tee, and all your clubs? if not, I'm completely screwed... I have no idea what's causing all the power to leak out of my swing.

[pittpanther]

We need a little more information. Is your driver (150-160 yards) your longest shot? What are your iron and hybrid distances?

What I'm getting at is do you have a Driver problem, or are ALL your clubs short? If your driver goes 150, but your 7-iron also goes 150, then the problem is the Driver. If however your 7-iron goes 90, then you have an all-around problem with your swing and your form.

My uneducated guess would be that you're swinging only with your arms, and not using your hips and legs. A few minutes with a pro should be able to quickly see what's wrong.

[GaijinGolfer]

Id say that if your longest shot is 150 yards, you are pretty much screwed. You need to go see a golf pro and figure out what you are doing that is causing you to lose that much power.

[misty_mountainhop]

Need more info. Have a video anywhere?

Lack of distance per se (within reason) isn't necessarily that much of a problem; Corey Pavin didn't do bad.

[Lefty22]

Anyways, my question is: Is it possible to play well without having any distance whatsoever off the tee, and all your clubs? if not, I'm completely screwed... I have no idea what's causing all the power to leak out of my swing.

If the longest shot in your bag is 150 then yeah you're not going to play well on a full sized course. If you hit other clubs further then I agree with the other fellow who said to work on the driver swing. If that's just the farthest you're hitting it then you're power didn't leak out, it was never there

- I'm 5'8" 125 soaking wet and even I can get 220+ with a cut down driver (my average is between 210-225 not saying I'm 220+ 100% of the time). Have someone watch you swing - we're just shooting in the dark - but I'd agree you're probably lifting your arms to the top instead of making a shoulder/hip turn to get the club back and though.

[Baraethon]

Yah, all my clubs are short. Here are some average distances, just a rough guess:

PW: 80
9: 85-90
8: 90-95
7: 95-100
6: 100-105
5: 110-115
4: 120-130
5 wd: 130-135
3 wd: dunno, never really hit this
Driver: 150-155

Actually, i have the opposite problem of using no lower body: I use my lower body WAYYYYYY too much. I've tried cutting down on it, but it is insanely hard. It came from me, when I first started (2 yrs ago) really wanting more distance. My instructors never gave me a clue how to do this without screwing up my swing, so I eventually came to this: drive the hips and lower body through as hard as you can. That should get more ss, right?

Wrong. Completely messed me up, now I'm struggling to tone down the hips and lower body. My right foot is often well off the ground by the time I get near impact. And my teacher still won't tell me anything about how to get more distance properly. :( :( :(

[denver_nuggs_15]

Anyways, my question is: Is it possible to play well without having any distance whatsoever off the tee, and all your clubs? if not, I'm completely screwed... I have no idea what's causing all the power to leak out of my swing.

If your longest club is 150, you are pretty much screwed. You'd need a sweet short game and putter to deal with that. Most par 4s you'd have to go driver, 3 wood, chip/pitch, putt. Relying on pitching, chipping, and putting on every hole is really tough.

It seems like you just don't swing very fast. There may not be a power "leakage." If you don't swing fast, what power can leak? Obviously, a swing video is needed to fully assess anything, but I'd recommend some lessons. Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

[anthonykim3]

hit the gym hard but strech a lot to and you should see some improve ment's i am 5'8 150 and i get it out there 250 270 is size your problem? how old are you

[Baraethon]

14. About 5-1, maybe 5-2. Weigh around 95-100 pounds (really small for my age.)

[microcrayfish]

14. About 5-1, maybe 5-2. Weigh around 95-100 pounds (really small for my age.)

That could be your problem. You're just not physically strong enough to generate the swing speed necessary to hit the ball further. That's also probably why your coach won't tell you how to hit it further because he knows if you make swing changes just for distance's sake then you'll get into bad habits and suffer in the long run.

If I were you I'd focus on building good swing fundamentals and work on your short game like crazy. You might even be at an advantage because if you have to work on your short game so much now to score well then when you grow a bit and get stronger and able to hit the ball further you'll be eating up the course. One thing NOT to do is start hitting the gym to try and get stronger, you're too young and working out too much at your age (weights especially) can cause muscle imbalances that will not only hurt your game but make you look ****ing weird too.

[timwalsh300]

One thing NOT to do is start hitting the gym to try and get stronger, you're too young and working out too much at your age (weights especially) can cause muscle imbalances that will not only hurt your game but make you look ****ing weird too.

I

very strongly disagree with this. The potential wasted by staying out of the gym between the ages of 14-19 is massive. The amount of hormones coursing through your system at that age is nearly the equivalent of using anabolic steroids. The amount of strength and lean body mass that you could gain over the next 5 years might take 10 years or more to develop if you wait until your late teens to start lifting. However, you MUST NOT make the kinds of mistakes that stunt progress and get so many people hurt when they are starting out. DO NOT do like most people and start by doing the bench press 5 days a week. DO NOT add weight too quickly and ignore proper form. Choose a balanced program that will hit every major movement or body part once a week. Find a quality trainer to get you off on the right foot with good form in all your lifts. Remember to take things slow and steady. You have a lifetime of weight lifting and golf ahead of you. Don't try to do too much too fast. If you just stay consistent, you'll be shocked at where you can be in 5 years. This is the sum of my experience over the last 7-8 years of being around the gym. I made all the mistakes in the beginning and I have a lot of regrets. I really wish I knew what I was doing at your age and didn't waste the first 5-6 years figuring things out. If you want to talk more about this off-line, feel free to PM me. Tim

[Muttface]

Yes, it is possible to play well, really well, while being distance challenged. I played a couple of months ago with a guy who is 83 years old and he kicked my butt all over the course. He had a set of old cavity backs and metals that were at least 10 years old and was probably lucky to get 160 yards off the tee. He compensated with accuracy, smart course management and one---or at most two---putting every green. He knew his limitations and worked around them. It did not hurt that he plays almost every day and walks the courses and is in fantastic shape for a guy his age. He is also very feisty and will probably be playing for many years to come. Golf is more mental than physical and that guy proved it.

[Griffin48]

Yah, all my clubs are short. Here are some average distances, just a rough guess:

14. About 5-1, maybe 5-2. Weigh around 95-100 pounds (really small for my age.)

Hey Baraethon, I'm in your boat too. Im about 5'1-5'2 and 14. I also am a short hitter. I can sometimes average a nice 200 yard drive, but I'm usually 165-180. I still play from the mens and usually can par/bogey most holes. I actually find myself losing strokes on my short game. (On my driving it really just differs, I haven't visited the range yet here in WI just the putting green. In Florida however I was hitting 200 carry with a 3 wood off the tee.) I usually use these clubs for 350 yd Par 4s Driver 3 wood SW The driver will usually carry about 185, not 100% sure since In Florida I hit about 215. The 3 wood is usually 160. Then I usually have a 15-25 yard chip. The biggest way to beat this disadvantage is your chipping. I work on putting more than anything else, but I need to get my chipping dead on. It's hard to rely on the short game so much, but once I and you grow more we'll reap the benefits. Keep me updated on how your doing love to hear about someone in the same situation. Also to the people who said weight lifting, I agree I'm ready for it. My family is naturally short, my dad is 5'9 but he grew 4 inches in college. My brother is a Freshman in college now and has grown an inch already. My mom is only 5'1 so I might've got the bad end of the deal though... Happy hitting!

[MattljDuke]

The potential wasted by staying out of the gym between the ages of 14-19 is massive. The amount of hormones coursing through your system at that age is nearly the equivalent of using anabolic steroids. The amount of strength and lean body mass that you could gain over the next 5 years might take 10 years or more to develop if you wait until your late teens to start lifting.

While I agree that lifting at a developing age can be beneficial, it's not necessarily going to help your golf game. As Harvey Penick wrote in his Little Red Book, "In golf you don't need muscles that lift weights. You want muscles that can pop a whip - or play golf."

That being said, I'm 5'9 155lbs and average driver carry of 235. And I would lose a benchpress challenge to just about anybody.

[timwalsh300]

While I agree that lifting at a developing age can be beneficial, it's not necessarily going to help your golf game. As Harvey Penick wrote in his Little Red Book, "In golf you don't need muscles that lift weights. You want muscles that can pop a whip - or play golf."

In principle, I agree. Getting stronger certainly doesn't mean you'll shoot better scores. It doesn't necessarily mean that you will be able to hit the ball any farther either.

As far as "muscles that lift weights" vs. "muscles that can pop a whip," that is a little simplistic. Muscles generate force. Power (speed) is about having muscles that can generate a lot of force AND having a central nervous system that can recruit muscles to do it quickly. The bottom line is that it's a combination of things. You need to be strong, you need to be quick, and you need to have efficient swing mechanics that channel your power to the ball. If you are missing 1 of the 3 then you won't be maximizing your distance. Tim

[JetFan1983]

Don't worry, guys, Tadd Fujikawa shot a 63 I think one round in the Sony Open earlier this year, and he's 5'1", 135 lbs. He averages like 290 yards off the tee and that's on PGA Tour courses where you have to really swing at 80% to keep it in the fairway.

Power is all proper technique coupled with speed and flexibility. Keep working on your game and distance will come. You can't have long, consistent distance with all your clubs without the proper swing. Wow, someone just call me Captain Obvious over here.

[Stacey_E]

To the OP:

My first advice to any beginner is to check the grip. You don't need size and power to get the ball out there over 200 yards. Just check the LPGA! Now I realize most of those gals could hand most of us guys our lunch on any given day. I believe a lot of that is due to strong fundimentals and a lack of ego/testosterone. JMHO.

If you have a really sound grip that allows a fluid release of the clubhead, you should be able to pop that ball out there farther than you are. Remember distance is all about clubhead speed. While muscle bulk can help that speed, it is no garuntee that your distance will increase. Again, JMHO, if you can grip that club in your fingers and release the head through the impact zonw with no manipulation by the wrists and hands, you should see a lot more pop in your drives and approaches.

Good luck!

[Neco]

Yah, all my clubs are short. Here are some average distances, just a rough guess:

Have you ever tried getting your hands in front of the ball?

Here is what I would suggest. Keep your hips rotating, if that feels comfortable then do it. In the mean time you must concentrate on a few other things. 1) Swing plane. 2) 90 degree angle between the wrists and the club at the top of the back swing. 3) Try keeping that angle as long as you can throughout the swing. When the club is about parallel to the ground again, you want to whip down or through the swing depending on the club. To only get that much distance, you must be whipping way to soon on the ball and hitting it with a straight left arm/club. God, it is so hard to explain on the internet. The reason I say keep your hip turn and don't screw with it is because of two reasons. 1) It feels comfortable for you. 2) You need that hip turn/shoulder rotation to clear room to get your hands out in front of the ball on the downswing and still keep the swing on a good swing plane. If that doesn't make since to you, watch some videos on J.B. Holmes' swing. It isn't the prettiest but he doesn't even take a full backswing and can reach 360ish or more. Notice two things on his swing: How much angle there is between his wrists and the ball at impact and also how much he clears his shoulders to keep the swing on plane. Also look at Stuart Appleby's preshot routine. I borrowed mine from his. He brings his backswing back to the parallel line to make sure he feels comfortable and on plane before every shot. Hope that helps. P.S.- Here is a review I read before every time I swing the club of my swing and the major points of what I am trying to do. It might help, it might not. For the backswing: 1.Bring the club back with a twist of your shoulders. When the club is parallel to the ground, the clubhead should be slightly in front of your body and the clubface should be completely open and parallel to the ball. (Note*Do not arc the backswing. Try to take it back in as straight and smooth a way you can along the swingplane.) 2.Continue to move the clubhead back on the swingplane by movement of the shoulders. 3.Make sure your head does not bobble up and your chin is tucked firmly into your left shoulder. (Note*This head/chin/shoulder area is the pivot point for the entire swing.) 4.Bring the shaft back parallel to the ground with the clubface still completely parallel to the ball. (Note*At the top of the backswing your left arm should be completely stiff with a 90 degree bend in the wrists to create lag on the downswing.) 5.Pause for a moment at the top of the backswing to make sure you’re in a great position to strike the ball. For the downswing: 1.Start the swing with a hip turn initiated by force coming from your right foot’s toes on up and shift the body’s weight onto the left side. (Note*Hip turn not hip slide. Note*Use that right foot to push through and pivot through the shot.) 2.Keep the knees and the waste still, turning on a horizontal line while the clubface is coming down on the swingplane. 3.Keep nearly 90 degree wrist action on the club until you reach parallel to the ground. 4.Use the wrists and hands to bring the clubface to square and flicking hard to create the lag through the shot. (Note*Make sure to keep your hands in front of the ball.) 5.Swing through the shot with your driver but swing down on the ball with an iron creating a divot after the ball. 6.Make sure the swing arc comes directly through the ball on a parallel line with your stance for the straight shot. 7.Follow through the shot without popping up.