Advice I Hate: "Release the Club"

[Gilles]

In my newbie golfer days (sounds like they're far gone. All but...) I locked my wrists from take-away until follow-through. Stiff as a ... Result : slice after slice after slice.

I started compensating by adopting a more closed grip, trying to close the clubface. Then I kept my hands way before the ball, also in an attempt to close the clubface, but it only took the loft out of the club. Then I started messing everything up, resulting in what my pro called a "reverse pivot" (weight on the left leg on the backswing).

I was totally lost.

Then he said to me "you have to release your wrists". I unlocked my wrists, first exaggerating the movement by slapping the ball (resulting in uncontrolled draws) and then finding the right balance between unlocking my wrists and keeping them tense.

Based on my own experience and the pro's and cons from the above posters, I think a lot of players tend to translate "release" in "slap the ball" rather than in "unlock your wrists".

Once, on the course, I hit a terrible slice, grunted, said to myself "release your wrists, Gilles, release your wrists". My fellow players looked at me like I spoke Chinese. I explained the concept to them. They told me that to them, unlocking their wrists came naturally (and they were no newbies).

So, my point of view on the "releasing" issue is :

1. it's meaning is often misunderstood and the movement is therefore often exagerated.
2. some players have it naturally, others don't and need to practice it to adopt it in their swing.
3. following the above, for some it's crappy advice because they don't need it, for others it's a bliss.

My $ 0.02 ...

G.

[Zeph]

Lag and casting are related, so is the "release" in terms of a reaction.

My theory:

A proper release is dependant on other things. What can prevent a good release is being handsy. To get lag you must have the basic fundamentals in place, weight transfer, head not moving etc. With all those in place, you can get both lag and a proper release. What can prevent lag and a release is using the wrong muscles in the downswing. Swinging with the arms, flipping the wrists, trying to hit the ball. If the hands don't actively do something, you can have both lag and release. They are a result of proper swing fundamentals and the absence of hand and arm action.

Someone who flips the club and tend to pull the ball will do so with active hands. Whether it be concious or something that has gone from concious to unconcious, it's not a move you want to have. Same goes with someone that holds off the clubhead, keeping it open through impact. The hands hold off the release as long as possible. This is very often a result of a swing over the top. If your swing plane is moving to the left, you have no option but to hold off the release if you want the ball to go towards the target.

With a good swing and proper fundamentals, both lag and release occurs with passive arms and hands. Most golfers have experienced how an easier swing a lot of the times give you better results than a hard swing. I think this has a lot to do with the arms and hands. Of course, by swinging long and hard, it's easy to get the body out of position, but I also believe that when we swing slower, we release the tension in the arms and hands. Combining powerful movements with the big muscles with passive arms and hands will give you good distance.

I don't like telling someone to release the clubhead. I've done some experimenting on my part and find that it's very difficult to get the timing right. As a over the top swinger, I've developed the "holding off my release". If I try to release the club I get better distance, but I also miss it left a lot. Actively releasing the club is just the other end of what I'm doing wrong.

Release ---- Passive ---- Holding off

Forcing a release can help me get the feeling of how a release should be, but it's not something I want to ingrain in my swing. I want the arms and hands to be passive. If I can do that, with proper fundamentals, chances are good I might hit some good shots.

[Fatphil]

I think it is worth a moment to remember how a good player hits a draw or a fade. They do not change their swing path, they come into the ball exactly the same way…down the line or slightly from the inside and if the clubface is square the ball goes straight, if a degree or two closed it is a draw 2 or 3º open it’s a fade. Talk of a 180º roll of the clubface is not what is happening. If a player needs to roll their hands 90º in order to square the club face that strikes me as way too much manipulation. I think that player is fanning the club on the backswing,,,whipping it way inside the hands and may not understand how to correctly cock the wrists

[groovezilla79]

FatPhil, have you read Iacas' post on what causes a draw? It was on a thread started by someone else and Iacas gave a really good explination on what actually causes a draw. I point this out because I personally can manipulate the ball pretty well, and I do not hit a fade or draw the way you described.

I learned to hit a draw and fade from watching a clinic on TV with Mr Woods back in about 2000. He stated he worked the ball by:

-keep clubace at target.
-close feet and swing along your foot line for a draw.
-open feet and swing along your foot line for a fade.

Hell, they even put that tip in a video on Tiger Woods golf a few years back.

While Im not saying they way you described a draw or fade won't work, I think it would give a lot different flight path. My draw starts out right and sweeps left. It seems like the way you described, the ball would start straight and then go left or right.... or possibly pull/push then bend. Thoughts?

[EightBlue]

very interesting discussion. I also think that people who focus on releasing the club are way too mechanical.

For me, I just focus on two position. 1) toe up down target line when the club if paralell to the ground and 2) firm left side at impact with a bit of forward lean going right down the swing line.

i know if i hit both positions, then I will have "released" the clubhead well

[Fatphil]

Groovezilla, you make an excellent point. I never really thought about it but yeh the flt path is different. My draw does start out where I aim. I line up square down the right side ball starts out straight & if all works well (ha ha) it ends up center. Honestly at an 8 hdcp I don't try to work the ball unless I have something in my way and I usually screw it up anyway.

Regarding Tiger I got a pet peeve w/ touring pros teaching..those guys are exceptionally gifted atheletes who practice insane amts of hours..what they say as throw off lines can in fact be moves that take uncommon core strength or coordination and thousands of range balls. ie Tiger saying "oh just turn you chest, shoulders and arms all together to control your wedge" ha ha no shit bro.. or Sergio saying "oh just drop your arms straight down from the top to get my lag" yeh right nothin to it!!!

That is why I find this thread so interesting because I believe it address' the most critical fault in the avg guys game and one that with a little bit of effort can actually be accomplished by the weekend player. Casting or as iacas says the "no release". Maybe it's just me,,,let me know if I'm off base.

[bunkerputt]

Please accept that other golfers don't just hit hit one dumb guy with another dumb guy into that dumb guy so it lands out there on that dumb guy.

LMFAO! I have a buddy who is much better at golf than me. He always tells me things like "Just use your natural swing". I try to tell him what I'm working on and he always rebounds with some objection to technical mumbo-jumbo. It's frustrating because I've got these nagging beliefs that there are reasons for everything that happens in the golf swing and, while sometimes mysterious and difficult to explain, those reasons reflect reality. I'm planning on playing golf for the next 40 years, God willing. I've seen way too many people have it in their youth, lay off for a while, and have no clue where to start when they take the game back up, wondering why they're no good anymore. If you understand first principles, it seems like long-term, the best strategy is to have reasons that you can understand, test, write down, and come back to 10 years from now when I'm not going to remember what the hell it felt like when I hit a certain shot. I'm not planning on hitting 800 balls a day for the rest of my life, so I expect anything feel-based to be elusive in golf.

[iacas]

LMFAO! I have a buddy who is much better at golf than me. He always tells me things like "Just use your natural swing".

Perhaps you know this, but a famous clip of Moe Norman has him saying something to the effect of what I said up above.

But yeah, some people don't want to think about things, others are. It's not strictly "analytical" versus "feel" players or anything like that, but that's as close to describing it as I can really get in a few words.

[mcman1]

If you position your hands to the right (for a rh player) rolling the arms becomes easier...watch out for the hooks though.

[FHopper]

I had my first lesson the other day. I was made to change my grip from a very very strong grip with a forward press to a neutral grip. My left forearm has never been able to roll in my former grip so the concept of release was not part of my swing. Now my arms will be able to rotate and I believe the club face will come through as it should, when it should.
What this thread has shown me is that my new golf swing will work if I visualize the shot and then swing that shot. Because of my new grip the release will come as a natural component of that swing. ... so I should let it happen and only be aware of it if it is missing.

[Tom]

ok. two things..and my $.02 worth.

1. what is up with all the folks here that post photos of hot babes as their "avatar" - like jaybird and jumbalaya... holy cow!!

2. rolling your hands is a key to good, sound impact and "release" of the club face. during practice when i intentionally think to roll my hands thru impact i hit great baby draws from a square stance that 99% of the time are on the line. it's like the tennis impact. you can play good tennis by not rolling your hand over. but, you can play much better and much more aggressive tennis when you learn how to roll your hand over. look at the greatest teachers - they all talk about releasing the club face. this is in essence, the "rolling of the hands." they should put this advice in a chapter called "Advanced Technique." if you ask a beginning tennis player to roll his hands, he'll not know waht to do, and he'll give up tennis. but if you ask an advanced player to roll his hands (assuming he hasn't done this before) he'll discover a part of the game that will unlock his true potential.

[iacas]

2. rolling your hands is a key to good, sound impact and "release" of the club face. during practice when i intentionally think to roll my hands thru impact i hit great baby draws from a square stance that 99% of the time are on the line. it's like the tennis impact. you can play good tennis by not rolling your hand over. but, you can play much better and much more aggressive tennis when you learn how to roll your hand over. look at the greatest teachers - they all talk about releasing the club face. this is in essence, the "rolling of the hands." they should put this advice in a chapter called "Advanced Technique." if you ask a beginning tennis player to roll his hands, he'll not know waht to do, and he'll give up tennis. but if you ask an advanced player to roll his hands (assuming he hasn't done this before) he'll discover a part of the game that will unlock his true potential.

I disagree about as much as possible, and my reasons are listed in the first post.

I have to go swimming at the Y here soon so my reply will be brief. 1) Your clubface is open when you hit those draws or else they'll be missing the target left. 2) Tennis players don't "roll" their wrists over, maybe on the occasional topspin shot, but "rolling" is different than snapping the wrists. The golf swing can also include a snapping of the wrists - releasing the lag - but that's almost the opposite of "rolling." Totally different moves. 3) The greatest teachers don't all talk about "releasing the clubface," and even if they did, that doesn't mean it's correct (or correctly interpreted by the average golfer). I helped film a video that talks about this. Maybe it'll be the one Dave puts up soon. Update: I googled "do you roll your wrists in a tennis stroke" and the first result says:

Source: first result If you're trying to roll over the ball to create topspin, don't. Trying to roll over the ball does nothing but make you turn your wrist in a way that will only hurt your stroke. The ball isn't on your strings long enough for you to roll over it. You create topspin by brushing a vertical racquet face up the back of the ball.

Like I said, different motion.

[jamo]

Like I said, different motion.

The Tennis stroke is very different though, you swing up at the ball to impart topspin, rolling your wrists would be counterproductive and, well, awkward.

I agree with you basic premise though. Your wrists don't roll until after impact, when it has not affect on the ball flight, it is just a natural motion of swinging your arms. There is no way to do that before you hit the ball. I found what you said in an earlier post interesting, "releasing is an effect, not a cause." It is also an effect of a proper downswing. If you come over the top, it is much easier to cast, which would exacerbate any slice spin already put on the ball.

[iacas]

I found what you said in an earlier post interesting, "releasing is an effect, not a cause."

And in the S&T; swing, it's not even an effect. You never release the clubface in the S&T; swing - you maintain the flying wedge of the right wrist as long as possible and then simply re-hinge the wrists (re-cock).

It is also an effect of a proper downswing. If you come over the top, it is much easier to cast, which would exacerbate any slice spin already put on the ball.

Well the slicer often HAS to roll their wrists in order to pull the ball so their slice brings it back across the target. If the slicer didn't they'd hit a push-slice instead of a pull-slice. Not all the time, but a lot of the time too.

I talked to Dave, and the video I linked above should start working sometime tonight.

[CalBoomer]

Obviously what you do with your wrists and forearms after the ball is contacted cannot directly affect the ball flight. However, I would argue that what you think you will be doing with your arms and wrists in following through or releasing probably does influence their motion before the ball is contacted. When driving, if I concentrate on holding or blocking my release and move the ball back in my stance, I always fade or push the ball. If I move the ball slightly forward and concentrate on really exaggerating the release, I always pull, draw, or hook the ball. Maybe the problem is just semantics. Some people are stuck in a golf swing that is always blocked with only a partial follow-through. Whether you tell them to follow through or "release" the club, the desired end result is the same. AAnd it will make a difference.

[Tom]

Hi Erik,

is that you in the video? if so, the bald guy? great job on the hi-def!!! looked great. is this a spot for stack and tilt? i don't use S&T...; i don't have an opinion on S&T; because i know nothing about it. and did you do that video just to argue against "turning your hands?" if so, ok... don't mean to begrudge you my friend but i'd rather listen to haney, harmon, etc., on how they desribe the "release" which is correct. i release and it is a correct move thru impact. take a look at the video here .

it shows you a simple idea of the "release". it's simply a matter of when to release. to me, the "release" at regular swing speed is what creates an extra "whip" at the bottom of the swing arc. it's an essential key to having an effortless yet powerful swing. to me, what you are describing is to "Hold Off" or not let your hand roll over thru impact. you can certainly do that - it's your golf game, your golf swing...

haney says "To hit straighter, more powerful shots, you need to release your hands through impact." see full link here .

one last and concrete peice of advice can be see here... .

in this video (at around 34 second spot), ben hogan says "...then you release at the bottom." then at the very end of the video there is a semi-slow motion sequence of him hitting the ball. you can very very clearly see his "release." there's no denying that hogan his very powerful shots, and had one of the prettiest golf swings ever, if not the prettiest. so, i go back to my original post where i said something to the effect that i believe the release is a subject for good players - people who've hit 100,000's of golf balls.

but, if you stay in this mindframe that's fine too... we'll just agree to disagree with no issues.

[michaeljames92]

I never think of 'releasing'. My swing thoughts are to make a full shoulder turn, keep my right elbow close to my hip, and make sure I turn my hips which will release the clubface given a decent swing.

[Fatphil]

a common error I make in my swing is to whip the club inside too fast and in the process roll open the hands and the clubface. This causes the need to have to roll them closed on the way down or what many folks may perceive as a "release". If I keep the clubhead in the correct plane and the clubface square I don't think at all about releasing,,,just let her ripe.