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Who Makes the United States Ryder Cup Team?


Chilli Dipper
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Next week's PGA Championship will be the last event for American and European players to collect points toward qualifying for the 2010 Ryder Cup. For 2010, the top eight players on the United States Ryder Cup points list will automatically qualify for the team; team captain Corey Pavin will then select four other American players to represent the U.S. as captains picks.

24 of the top 25 players on the U.S. table are participating this week in the WGC-Bridgestone Invitational. (Ricky Barnes, currently 11th in points, did not meet the qualification criteria for the WGC event; though half-points are for grabs the alternate-field Turning Stone Resort Championship, Barnes is taking the week off.) Double points are at stake at the PGA Championship, meaning that every $1,000 earned in prize money will count as 2 points.

If the current standings hold, these eight players will automatically qualify for the U.S. Ryder Cup Team:

Phil Mickelson (Ryder Cup: 1; FedEx Cup: 5; Official World Golf Ranking: 2)
Jim Furyk (RC: 2; FEC: 3; OWGR: 5)
Steve Stricker (RC: 3; FEC: 2; OWGR: 4)
Jeff Overton (RC: 4; FEC: 6; OWGR: 47)
Anthony Kim (RC: 5; FEC: 10; OWGR: 12)
Lucas Glover (RC: 6; FEC: 55; OWGR: 27)
Matt Kuchar (RC: 7; FEC: 8; OWGR: 26)
Dustin Johnson (RC: 8; FEC: 11; OWGR: 29)

The top five's places on the Ryder Cup team are likely secure: Glover, Kuchar, and Johnson are more at risk of being surpassed on the points table during the next two tournaments, though nothing is certain at this time.

The prevailing trend of captain's picks during recent Ryder Cup matches is that a player must be within the top 20 in Ryder Cup standings and in or near the top 50 in the world ranking if he should be selected. With that in mind, here are the potential candidates to be picked for the 2010 team, listed in order of current Ryder Cup points.

Tiger Woods (RC: 9; FEC: 111; OWGR: 1)
Still the world's number one player, Tiger has not been himself this year, as personal crises and shaky putting have taken their toll on his game. Woods is this high in the points based on his major record of the last two years: though Tiger has only put together two decent weekends of play in 2010, they came at major championships, where he finished high at Augusta and Pebble Beach solely on adrenaline and course knowledge. He probably doesn't deserve a place on the team unless he plays well at the PGA; a top-ten finish would most likely move him to within the top eight of the Ryder Cup standings, and even if it doesn't, it would be impossible to justify excluding the World No. 1 after a season with three top-tens in majors, regardless of the messes elsewhere in his game.

Hunter Mahan (RC: 10; FEC: 22; OWGR: 31)
A member of the 2008 team, Mahan won in Phoenix earlier this year, but hasn't scored a top-ten finish since the Masters. Though he's second on tour in total driving and 22nd in greens in regulation, Hunter's 158th in putting average, which explains his recent lack of results. Still, his past Ryder Cup experience and across-the-board strong rankings make him a very hard player for Pavin to pass up.

Ricky Barnes (RC: 11; FEC: 25; OWGR: 59)
Barnes is finally living up to the promise the golf world saw in him as he turned professional, using his out-of-nowhere run at the 2009 U.S. Open as a springboard to a 2010 where he has collected six top tens. He's not that great off the tee (171st in total driving this year), but is exceptional in most other aspects of the game. His relatively poor world rank is a bit of a turn-off, but his resiliency makes him a likely fit for the Cup's match-play format.

Ben Crane (RC: 12; FEC: 9; OWGR: 43)
The notoriously slow Crane has nonetheless managed to sneak his way into Ryder Cup discussion, thanks to a win at Torrey Pines in January. There's nothing flashy about his game, but he is 2nd in the tour's all-around ranking behind Kuchar. He hits fairways, he hits greens, and he makes putts, but most observers are too drowsy from watching his pace of play to appreciate him.

Stewart Cink ( RC: 13; FEC: 59; OWGR: 38)
Stewart's 2010 season has been a bit of a letdown, but the replica Claret Jug on his mantle makes up for a lackluster year. Cink is a reliable Ryder Cup performer, haven appeared in every edition of the matches since 2002, but he may need a good showing in the remaining matches to extend his appearance streak to five.

Nick Watney (RC: 14; FEC: 29; OWGR: 33)
Watney has finished in the top ten on six occasions this year, twice in majors, but his top result is only fourth. Like Mahan, Watney's putting hasn't been its best in 2010 (152nd in putts per round, due to being 4th in GIR). He feels very much like a player whose points rankings make him look better than he has been this season.

Rickie Fowler (RC: 15; FEC: 15; OWGR: 35)
The kid is a phenom, of that there is no doubt. He's done everything but win during his rookie year, and yet the Ryder Cup may be too much, too soon for him: the Open Championship at St. Andrews was his first major as a professional. His story is the same as Watney and Mahan's: he's hitting the greens, but not making the putts. In 2008, European captain Nick Faldo left Martin Kaymer off his team, feeling the German was not yet ready for the stage. Two years later, Kaymer's a lock for Europe; perhaps Fowler should wait for his time to come as well.

J.B. Holmes (RC: 16; FEC: 17; OWGR: 54)
Much like two years ago, Holmes is a borderline case for selection onto the U.S. team. No European player (save possibly Alvaro Quiros) can match Holmes' distance, and now that he's making putts again, he can score very low (as he ranks fourth in scoring average on tour this year).

Bubba Watson (RC: 17; FEC: 13; OWGR: 52)
Bubba is a freak of nature. Anyone who ranks in the top ten in both driving distance and greens and regulation stands to be a monster in team play. He's riding a string of confidence after his first win in Hartford; for all his idiosyncrasies, he's a wild card that may be too good for Pavin to pass up.

Bo Van Pelt (RC: 18; FEC: 19; OWGR: 49)
Van Pelt is a scrappy player scraping together a career year, earning five top ten finishes. However, he has no signature performances nor defining skill that would single him out as a likely Ryder Cupper.

Sean O'Hair (RC: 19; FEC: 40; OWGR: 22)
A prevailing theme as to why so many great players are on the outside of the Ryder Cup looking in: O'Hair hasn't made putts this year. Still, his tie for seventh at St. Andrews may be a step in the right direction, and it would be unusual for a player with such a strong world ranking to be overlooked.

Zach Johnson (RC: 20; FEC: 21; OWGR: 21)
Johnson's as steady as always; he's just steadily not getting up-and-down from off the green as often as he should (137th in scrambling). He's won this year (though it is his only top ten to date), he's still high in both the FedEx Cup and world rankings, and he has prior Ryder Cup experience.

Ryan Moore (RC: 21; FEC: 34; OWGR: 42)
Moore's having a good, but not great, year. He ruled match play as an amateur, but 2004 was such a long time ago. It's hard to picture him wearing the customary matching team outfits.

Jason Bohn (RC: 22; FEC: 26; OWGR: 75)
Bohn is a winner in 2010. He puts the ball in play, and he makes putts. His world ranking is too poor to justify picking him over better-ranked players.

Kenny Perry (RC: 23; FEC: 66; OWGR: 40)
Perry was a feel good story in 2008, but he turns 50 next week, and his only top-ten finish in 2010 was in the limited-entry SBS Championship in early January. He's not going to make the team.

Scott Verplank (RC: 24; FEC: 38; OWGR: 48)
If Corey Pavin was desperate to add a veteran to his roster, two-time Cupper Verplank would make sense. With a foundation of Mickelson, Stricker, and Furyk, there's no need.

Bill Haas (RC: 25; FEC: 23; OWGR: 85)
Haas has a PGA Tour win in 2010. That's the only reason he makes this list.

So, out of this pool of contenders, who do you think will represent the United States at Celtic Manor?

In my UnderArmour Links stand bag...

Driver: '07 Burner 9.5° (stiff graphite shaft)
Woods: SasQuatch 17° 4-Wood (stiff graphite shaft)
Hybrid: 4DX Ironwood 20° (stiff graphite shaft)Irons/Wedges: Apex Edge 3-PW, GW, SW (stiff shaft); Carnoustie 60° LWPutter: Rossa AGSI+ Corzina...

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If Tiger finishes well in the PGA, I think he has to be offered the spot. Otherwise I don't think it'd be the right call. IMO it would be good for Tiger to play in the Cup to "make some friends" and play in a supportive context. However, it's not about Tiger, it's about the team, so I think he's got to have another good finish in the year to make it a defensible choice.

Of the others, I think it's hard to argue against Bubba Watson's insane capabilities. His swing makes me cringe every time I see it, but when he's on, he's a force to be reckoned with. Plus you could pair him up with Mickelson and the left-handedness would overwhelm the opposition.

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

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Next week's PGA Championship will be the last event for American and European players to collect points toward qualifying for the 2010 Ryder Cup.

I think you are wrong. The europeans still have time till the Johnnie Walker Championship at Gleneagles? or am i wrong?

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Give me Hunter Mahan or give me death!

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Give me Hunter Mahan or give me death!

He's in if he wins today, probably bumping Lucas Glover off the team for now. O'Hair's making his case for a captain's pick, too.

In my UnderArmour Links stand bag...

Driver: '07 Burner 9.5° (stiff graphite shaft)
Woods: SasQuatch 17° 4-Wood (stiff graphite shaft)
Hybrid: 4DX Ironwood 20° (stiff graphite shaft)Irons/Wedges: Apex Edge 3-PW, GW, SW (stiff shaft); Carnoustie 60° LWPutter: Rossa AGSI+ Corzina...

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Based on the current standings, I would pick Tiger, O'Hair, Mahan, and Nick Watney. It would be hard to exclude Bubba Watson and JB Holmes though, their length would give them such an advantage over anyone in match play. I feel the same way about Fowler as you do (assuming you wrote your post), he should wait but it'll be tough not to pick him.

To be honest though if I was picking all the players I would leave off Overton, Glover, and Kuchar and add Bubba, JB, and Fowler. But those other guys earned it.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

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He's in if he wins today, probably bumping Lucas Glover off the team for now. O'Hair's making his case for a captain's pick, too.

Agree 100%, I wouldn't mind seeing O'Hair on the Team. He'll perform well at Whistling Straits too with his low ballflight.

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F-Speed 15.5 degree 3 Wood (R)
A70s 19 degree hybrid (R)
2009 CG-7 Tour Irons (3-PW) (R)
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Indeed, Mahan's win is going to leap-frog him all the way to second in Ryder Cup points. He's now a lock for the team, and depending on how the purse is distributed amongst the rest of the field, Lucas Glover or Dustin Johnson (most likely Glover) is going to be bumped from the top eight with one week left to qualify for the U.S. team automatically. Johnson's had a good enough year that he'll probably receive a captain's pick if he is outside the AQ ranks at the end of next week, but Glover (whose point total is largely based on his 2009 U.S. Open win) needs an automatic spot to make the team.

Based on the current standings, I would pick Tiger, O'Hair, Mahan, and Nick Watney. It would be hard to exclude Bubba Watson and JB Holmes though, their length would give them such an advantage over anyone in match play. I feel the same way about Fowler as you do (assuming you wrote your post), he should wait but it'll be tough not to pick him.

Tiger's not making the team without a big result at Whistling Straits, and based on his performance at Firestone, I don't see it happening. My opinion before this weekend was that Mahan, Watney, Fowler, and O'Hair all have struggled too much with the putter this year to justify giving more than one of them a captain's pick; Mahan has now both locked his place on the team and displayed a great clutch putting performance, so that provides an opportunity for O'Hair, who's peaking at the right time (seven top-12s in nine starts since the Byron Nelson).

The team needs fairways-and-greens guys who make putts for foursomes, and that's Ben Crane's bread and butter. Combine him with an explosive distance guy (either Watson or Holmes; I'm leaning towards the former), and that's a strong pair for the first two days of play. So, if it was my team, it would look like this right now: Phil Mickelson Hunter Mahan Steve Stricker Jim Furyk Jeff Overton Anthony Kim Matt Kuchar Dustin Johnson Sean O'Hair (captain's pick) Ben Crane (captain's pick) Bubba Watson/J.B. Holmes (captain's pick) That means there's still one captain's pick up for grabs next week for whomever wants to earn it.

In my UnderArmour Links stand bag...

Driver: '07 Burner 9.5° (stiff graphite shaft)
Woods: SasQuatch 17° 4-Wood (stiff graphite shaft)
Hybrid: 4DX Ironwood 20° (stiff graphite shaft)Irons/Wedges: Apex Edge 3-PW, GW, SW (stiff shaft); Carnoustie 60° LWPutter: Rossa AGSI+ Corzina...

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The eight automatic qualifier spots on the 2010 United States Ryder Cup team are now filled. Representing the U.S. at Celtic Manor will be...

Phil Mickelson (40, Rancho Santa Fe, CA)

8th Ryder Cup Appearance -- Finished 1st in Points
World Ranking = 2nd ; FedEx Cup = 4th
2010 Masters Champion

Hunter Mahan (28, Plano, TX)

2nd Ryder Cup Appearance -- Finished 2nd in Points
World Ranking = 12th ; FedEx Cup = 7th
2010 WGC-Bridgstone Invitational, Waste Management Phoenix Open Champion

Bubba Watson (31, Bagdad, FL)

1st Ryder Cup Appearance -- Finished 3rd in Points
World Ranking = 26th ; FedEx Cup = 8th
2010 Travelers Champion

J im Furyk (40, Ponte Vedra Beach, FL)

7th Ryder Cup Appearance -- Finished 4th in Points
World Ranking = 6th ; FedEx Cup = 3rd
2010 Transitions, Verizon Heritage Champion

Steve Stricker (43, Madison, WI)

2nd Ryder Cup Appearance -- Finished 5th in Points
World Ranking = 4th ; FedEx Cup = 2nd
2010 Northern Trust Open, John Deere Classic Champion

Dustin Johnson (26, Myrtle Beach, SC)

1st Ryder Cup Appearance -- Finished 6th in Points
World Ranking = 24th ; FedEx Cup = 11th
2010 AT&T; Pebble Beach Pro-Am Champion

Jeff Overton (27, Bloomington, IN)

1st Ryder Cup Appearance -- Finished 7th in Points
World Ranking = 46th ; FedEx Cup = 6th
6 Top-10 Finishes in 2010 PGA Tour Season

Matt Kuchar (32, Ponte Vedra Beach, FL)

1st Ryder Cup Appearance -- Finished 8th in Points
World Ranking = 22nd ; FedEx Cup = 9th
9 Top-10 Finishes in 2010 PGA Tour Season

Captain Corey Pavin will select four additional players by the conclusion of the Deutsche Bank Championship on September 6 to complete the United States roster.

In my UnderArmour Links stand bag...

Driver: '07 Burner 9.5° (stiff graphite shaft)
Woods: SasQuatch 17° 4-Wood (stiff graphite shaft)
Hybrid: 4DX Ironwood 20° (stiff graphite shaft)Irons/Wedges: Apex Edge 3-PW, GW, SW (stiff shaft); Carnoustie 60° LWPutter: Rossa AGSI+ Corzina...

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My 4 picks at this moment:

Tiger- He seems to be headed in the right direction, now with a swing coach, and his short putting seemed much better at the PGA. His poor ball striking really let his incredible short game shine this week. If anyone can get his swing working (especially in the hands of a teacher), it's Tiger. Plus the whole 6 wins last year (the most since the last Ryder Cup) and 14 majors has me convinced of his golfing ability.

Sean O'Hair- He's a fantastic ball striker, and his constantly hitting fairways and greens really would put pressure on his opponents.

Nick Watney- After his showing on sunday at the PGA I was hesitant to put him on, but he is another really good ball striker, and the first 3 days he put together were masterful.

AK- Before the PGA this last spot would be really tough, but a lot of the guys people were campaigning to get in (Bubba, Hunter) played themselves in. He is ranked #12 in the world, has won this year, and has come up big in international play before. I think he deserves it. At this point, who else would you pick? The only other guy I could make a case for is ZJ and maybe JB, but I would give the spot to AK. Come to think of it, I would put him over Watney.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

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Kim missed most of the summer (including two majors) and still almost made the team by merit. Had he been able to pick up a golf club over the last three months, he'd have made the team with room to spare. Pavin has to pick him.

I'm still holding a "one or the other" policy between O'Hair and Watney. The way Zach Johnson played this week, I want him on my team, and I'll gladly overlook either of those two to make from for him.

Tiger did just what Pavin probably didn't want him to do: he didn't play poorly enough to justify leaving him off the team, but he didn't play well enough to justify reserving a roster spot for him. Heck, Corey's one position ahead of Tiger in the FedEx Cup standings right now. Let Tiger work with Sean Foley for the next two weeks, and see what the progress in his game is at the Barclays. If he qualifies for Deutsche Bank, let him on the team.

In my UnderArmour Links stand bag...

Driver: '07 Burner 9.5° (stiff graphite shaft)
Woods: SasQuatch 17° 4-Wood (stiff graphite shaft)
Hybrid: 4DX Ironwood 20° (stiff graphite shaft)Irons/Wedges: Apex Edge 3-PW, GW, SW (stiff shaft); Carnoustie 60° LWPutter: Rossa AGSI+ Corzina...

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Kim missed most of the summer (including two majors) and still almost made the team by merit. Had he been able to pick up a golf club over the last three months, he'd have made the team with room to spare. Pavin has to pick him.

That said, he missed not because of a broken foot or something, but because of surgery on his thumb. What if he's unable to get back into playing shape?

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I guess what pavin has to decide is, "are there 4 US players better than tiger who aren't on the team already?" I would say no, but anything can happen. I expect Fowler, Tiger and O'Hair to get invites, but after that i dont know.
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That said, he missed not because of a broken foot or something, but because of surgery on his thumb. What if he's unable to get back into playing shape?

If Tiger Woods was the one coming off thumb surgery, and Anthony Kim was the one having a terrible season, no one would be debating on who should be playing in the Ryder Cup and who shouldn't. Despite everyone's insistence that Tiger Woods' game will come around for the Ryder Cup because anything to the contrary is inconceivable, he isn't one of the 12 best American golfers this year (as he hasn't been in any of the tournaments he's competed in save the Masters and US Open), and he still won't be six weeks from now. In my opinion, AK deserves the benefit of the doubt, due to his performances in 2010 before surgery.

In my UnderArmour Links stand bag...

Driver: '07 Burner 9.5° (stiff graphite shaft)
Woods: SasQuatch 17° 4-Wood (stiff graphite shaft)
Hybrid: 4DX Ironwood 20° (stiff graphite shaft)Irons/Wedges: Apex Edge 3-PW, GW, SW (stiff shaft); Carnoustie 60° LWPutter: Rossa AGSI+ Corzina...

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I guess what pavin has to decide is, "are there 4 US players better than tiger who aren't on the team already?" I would say no, but anything can happen. I expect Fowler, Tiger and O'Hair to get invites, but after that i dont know.

There are any number of ways to quantify that there are at least four Americans better than Tiger in 2010 that aren't on the team. Place Tiger's current resume on a player with any other name, and he's not even in the discussion.

In my UnderArmour Links stand bag...

Driver: '07 Burner 9.5° (stiff graphite shaft)
Woods: SasQuatch 17° 4-Wood (stiff graphite shaft)
Hybrid: 4DX Ironwood 20° (stiff graphite shaft)Irons/Wedges: Apex Edge 3-PW, GW, SW (stiff shaft); Carnoustie 60° LWPutter: Rossa AGSI+ Corzina...

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There are any number of ways to quantify that there are at least four Americans better than Tiger in 2010 that aren't on the team. Place Tiger's current resume on a player with any other name, and he's not even in the discussion.

I disagree. Can you name a player better than tiger right now without looking up a bunch of stats on a website? Its hard. If i have to pick between a pedestrian performing tiger and a bunch of pedestrian US tour pros, im going with tiger.

THE WEAPONS CACHE..

Titleist 909 D2 9.5 Degree Driver| Titleist 906f4 13.5 degree 3-Wood | Titleist 909 17 & 21 degree hybrid | Titleist AP2 irons
Titleist Vokey Wedges - 52 & 58 | Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2 Putter | ProV1 Ball
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Tiger is a lock with their being 4 captain's picks - he and Stricker were unbeatable last year and there's no reason to break that up. After that I like Zach Johnson - experienced, a major winner, and played very well this week. After that I think it's a bit of a toss-up. The obvious choices are someone like O'Hair or Watney, but after Watney's showing on Sunday I don't know. Personally I'd go with Cink who is a grinder in singles play and then bring in some fresh blood with Ricky Fowler or Ryan Moore, who I think deserves a shot and has the mettle to win.

In Summary:
Tiger
Zach Johnson
Cink
Kim if he's healthy, otherwise;
Fowler/Moore

Now, let's talk pairings. I MUST see Bubba Watson and Dustin Johnson teamed up in the Alternate shot. Their games are very similar (Loooong off the tee and good short games) that it just makes sense and would allow them to not have to alter their games (versus pairing them with a short hitter).

Woods/Stricker is a lock for 4 rounds.

Overton - who cares. Give him 1 round in team play and pray he doesn't get smoked in dingles.

Kim/Mickelson - played good together in '08.

Mahan/Zach Johnson

Kuchar/Furyk

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There are any number of ways to quantify that there are at least four Americans better than Tiger in 2010 that aren't on the team. Place Tiger's current resume on a player with any other name, and he's not even in the discussion.

Which part? Stats, or the part where he won 6 times in 2009, finished an aggregate 1 stroke better in majors than Phil this year, or that he has been the most dominant player in the game for 13+ years and deserves the benefit of the doubt more than anyone ever has (reminder, he's still in the Top 12 of the rankings).

If Pavin had 2 picks, he might be able to make and excuse to keep Tiger off the squad. With 4 picks, he's a lock and would have to refuse to not be there.

Titleist 910D3 8.5* Aldila RIP
Titleist 910F 13.5* Diamana Kai'li
Nickent 4DX 20* and 24*
Tour Preferred 5-PW
52.08, 56.14, 60.04 Titleist Vokey

Odyssey Metal-X #9 Putter

Pro V1x

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    • Last year I made an excel that can easily measure with my own SG data the average score for each club of the tee. Even the difference in score if you aim more left or right with the same club. I like it because it can be tweaked to account for different kind of rough, trees, hazards, greens etc.     As an example, On Par 5's that you have fescue on both sides were you can count them as a water hazard (penalty or punch out sideways), unless 3 wood or hybrid lands in a wider area between the fescue you should always hit driver. With a shorter club you are going to hit a couple less balls in the fescue than driver but you are not going to offset the fact that 100% of the shots are going to be played 30 or more yards longer. Here is a 560 par 5. Driver distance 280 yards total, 3 wood 250, hybrid 220. Distance between fescue is 30 yards (pretty tight). Dispersion for Driver is 62 yards. 56 for 3 wood and 49 for hybrid. Aiming of course at the middle of the fairway (20 yards wide) with driver you are going to hit 34% of balls on the fescue (17% left/17% right). 48% to the fairway and the rest to the rough.  The average score is going to be around 5.14. Looking at the result with 3 wood and hybrid you are going to hit less balls in the fescue but because of having longer 2nd shots you are going to score slightly worst. 5.17 and 5.25 respectively.    Things changes when the fescue is taller and you are probably going to loose the ball so changing the penalty of hitting there playing a 3 wood or hybrid gives a better score in the hole.  Off course 30 yards between penalty hazards is way to small. You normally have 60 or more, in that cases the score is going to be more close to 5 and been the Driver the weapon of choice.  The point is to see that no matter how tight the hole is, depending on the hole sometimes Driver is the play and sometimes 6 irons is the play. Is easy to see that on easy holes, but holes like this:  you need to crunch the numbers to find the best strategy.     
    • Very much so. I think the intimidation factor that a lot of people feel playing against someone who's actually very good is significant. I know that Winged Foot pride themselves on the strength of the club. I think they have something like 40-50 players who are plus something. Club championships there are pretty competitive. Can't imagine Oakmont isn't similar. The more I think about this, the more likely it seems that this club is legit. Winning also breeds confidence and I'm sure the other clubs when they play this one are expecting to lose - that can easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    • Ah ok I misunderstood. But you did bring to light an oversight on my part.
    • I was agreeing with you/jumping off from there.
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