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Robato

Using Stack n Tilt PLUS conventional swings

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Hi guys. This forum is awesome and I've found so much helpful info over the years.

My question is, how many of you players use both the S & T swing, lets say for 150 yards or less shots, and a more conventional swing for longer irons and woods. The reason why I ask is because I never knew about the Stack and Tilt style of swing until I discovered that I was already using some form of it. I found it to be extremely accurate for approach shots under 150 yards in certain conditions. I notice that a lot of pros do use a lot of the principals of S & T for long approach shots. For the long irons on the other hand, I need that sweeping contact of a conventional swing to get my 4 iron soaring.

So do you guys use the same style swing for every iron, or do you find some situations warrant a change of style, like for example a nice fairway lie, plenty of green to work with, etc.

Maybe my question sounds dumb, but I'd just like to hear if anyone uses different approaches for accuracy.
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I use the S&T; (well my verison of it) with every club in the bag...I have no problems even hitting my 3 iron and getting it into the air for very good carry distance. However, as much as I love this swing through-out my bag I really struggle with it when hitting a 460cc Driver...so I don't currently...I am hitting a strong 3 wood off the tee and with the S&T; I am long enough to play 6500-6700 and be more accurate off the tee then I have ever. I recently played Copperhead (PGA Tour Transistion Championship course) and played from one tee box in front of where the pro's play (6800-6900yds) and shot an 82 which equated to a 6.9 handicap index...SWEET!
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Hi guys. This forum is awesome and I've found so much helpful info over the years.

No you don't... I see where you are coming from, but S&T; really does make sense for any of your clubs up to and including the driver. Some players feel that woods are harder to hit when the first start S&T; but from my personal experience, my entire game, including off the tee has improved with S&T.;

Your question isn't dumb at all but in my opinion you'd be much better off grooving one swing rather than have one for your woods and long irons and one for your short irons. Also, here is a great video for the driver swing
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Fascinating video, Tristan. I've never seen a driver S&T.; I agree that its good to groove one swing, but what about the various swings we use around the green? I'm wondering if anyone uses a mixed approach, simply because of the chance for versatility. Why not take what we like from different areas, like a salad bar.
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Even around the green (chipping and pitching) I use S&T; principals as I keep my weight forward. While I agree that it is good to have versatility and a number of different shots in your bag, I believe that it is important to groove one swing for the majority of your shots... This leads to greater consistency and therefore lower scores. On top of that, I think it is a poor idea for the majority of amateurs to mix and match as often times they mix ideas that shouldn't be mixed. The vast vajority is better off sticking with one philosophy in my opinion.

However, as a 4 hcp, I would think you have a better idea than most as to what works for you and if taking things from here or there works for you than go with it.
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I hear this a lot. In fact, before I understood the system I used to say that it made sense for mid-short irons, but I couldn't understand how it worked for longer clubs. It comes from a lack of understanding or misunderstanding about the steepness of the swing. A lot of people think they are using the system just because they stay centered or come in steeper, but the reality is that they aren't.

Once you understand the pieces that help shallow out the club (and start doing it), you will see the true beauty with the system is in the longer clubs.
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I think its a good way to get rid of too much lateral movement back if you kind of stay centered on the front you just have to rotate really
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Hi guys. This forum is awesome and I've found so much helpful info over the years.

Hi Robato - Stack and Tilt is not a swing for only one type of shot - and not a swing you just "switch" to. Whether its a 9 iron or a Driver you simply implement the most important piece for you at that time...nothing more really. From there you just keep ordering things properly and working on the next piece in line (for example if my goal were to hit my long irons higher I might work on pushing off the ground, straightening my legs and expanding the chest/tucking the butt). In the end this is much simpler than a short club swing and a long club swing! Hope it helps. Dave
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Interesting thread man. I recently heard about a local instructor (Eddie Cox) that has some S&T; mixed in with TGM (and other) methodology. I heard from one of his students and he was impressed with what he was learning. I am curious about how merging different styles would work. Don't know enough about the various disciplines to have a firm opinion, but I too am curious.


-Dan
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I actually found S&T; to help more with long irons than anything else, because yeah, intuition says you need more of a sweeping motion to get the ball in the air, but actually (golf being the counter-intuitive game it is) you still want to hit down on the ball and let the loft do it's job, same idea as with an 8 iron.
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Interesting thread man. I recently heard about a local instructor (Eddie Cox) that has some S&T; mixed in with TGM (and other) methodology. I heard from one of his students and he was impressed with what he was learning. I am curious about how merging different styles would work. Don't know enough about the various disciplines to have a firm opinion, but I too am curious.

I know Eddie - good guy and knows his stuff - go see him if you can and do tell him I said Hi and mention that I referred you his way! (sorry for thread jack Erik ;>))

Dave
...about a local instructor (Eddie Cox) that has some S&T; mixed in with TGM (and other) methodology. I am curious about how merging different styles would work. Don't know enough about the various disciplines to have a firm opinion, but I too am curious.

Not a merging of different styles at all. TGM catalogs virtually every way there is to "swing" a golf club and all of us that teach SnT (or similar patterns) are influenced greatly by TGM. Btw I'm not saying that Eddie is completely versed in SnT - just that he has much familiarity with the pattern and he is a very solid instructor.

Dave
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I hear this a lot. In fact, before I understood the system I used to say that it made sense for mid-short irons, but I couldn't understand how it worked for longer clubs. It comes from a lack of understanding or misunderstanding about the steepness of the swing. A lot of people think they are using the system just because they stay centered or come in steeper, but the reality is that they aren't.

I think you nailed it cbrian. I guess I too thought that the steepness of the S&T; swing makes it more effective in short situations, but if the system is understood, it should work just as well for the long clubs. I guess I'm wondering if there are many players that use both styles, since probably everyone hasnt used S&T; their whole lives. Plus, I'm always open to new swings. Whatever works. And if it gives me additional usable distances, I'll game it.

I just feel like when it comes to the short game, I have so many different types of swings for the lob wedge alone: a leaning heavy digging spinner, sweeping high lob, wristy flop, back of stance chip, chiputt, bunker shot, etc. Anyone attack the irons in a similar way?
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I think you nailed it cbrian. I guess I too thought that the steepness of the S&T; swing makes it more effective in short situations, but if the system is understood, it should work just as well for the long clubs. I guess I'm wondering if there are many players that use both styles, since probably everyone hasnt used S&T; their whole lives. Plus, I'm always open to new swings. Whatever works. And if it gives me additional usable distances, I'll game it.

I think the short game is where you want to have a variety of shots... there are always different lies, pin placements, hazards, etc. that makes having a large arsenal of shots important. I think once you start talking about full shots though you really should be looking at one pattern to go by.

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Jus wanted to post an update. I totally agree that its not a good idea to use two swings on full shots. I can do that now, but it takes a little too much mental energy to switch concepts. Although, I do think its a little like changing a swing for a different condition, trajectory, or lie. But I guess those changes are not that drastic to be considered a completely different swing. I gotta give it up for the S&T; though. Extremely accurate. It feels like there are less moving parts, less going away and coming back. So I often use it for 120 and in shots, and I've had great success. To me it feels like a big chip. And I dont mind if I'm not swinging it exactly as I should. I'm still getting a lot out of it. It has helped me to understand both swings better.

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So do you guys use the same style swing for every iron, or do you find some situations warrant a change of style, like for example a nice fairway lie, plenty of green to work with, etc.

Maybe my question sounds dumb, but I'd just like to hear if anyone uses different approaches for accuracy.



Hi Robato, I have started using my version of the stack and tilt, my ball flight has always been low because I learned to play on links courses that are pretty windy, I have been playing a lot of parkland courses of late and find the SandT gives me a fantastic high trajectory, I to only use it from about 160 in ,find it great if you need to clear threes . I'm very happy playing with both swings.



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Yeah, same here. I gave it a fair shot, took lessons from an SnT instructor and played that way for a few months. Hit terrific irons compared to conventional swing but never got to a point where I could trust the driver or fairway woods. Kept hitting the top of the ball. Instructor and I kept working at it but eventually went back to the conventional method as playing with 2 techniques on the course never realy worked out. Also, started feeling a twinge and slight pain in my front knee using the technique that went away when I abandoned the method.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jspin

Yeah, same here. I gave it a fair shot, took lessons from an SnT instructor and played that way for a few months. Hit terrific irons compared to conventional swing but never got to a point where I could trust the driver or fairway woods. Kept hitting the top of the ball. Instructor and I kept working at it but eventually went back to the conventional method as playing with 2 techniques on the course never realy worked out. Also, started feeling a twinge and slight pain in my front knee using the technique that went away when I abandoned the method.


And the name of your "SnT instructor" is what? I ask because I know them and they're good, and I doubt they'd have you topping the ball with your driver and fairway woods.

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Agree with Erik...should not be topping the ball. Here's a link to a video of a guy who is quietly embracing the S&T; model. The one question I have is "is a glove the same as a tee?"

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