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Why "not" use game improvement clubs?


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Also, I have a Titeist 905 R with a Graff Red shaft in it and also a PING G30 with an Oban Kiyoshi Purple, on average I would say I hit the old Titelist 30 yard further, maybe even more but I don't hit it as straight and as consistent. This could save me anywhere between 1-5 strokes a round depending on the course, one bad hit on the Titelist vs the G30 is the diference between hitting 1 off the tee or hitting 3 off the tee.

The point of golf is to score the lowest score not play the best looking gear

The point of golf for me is to score as low as possible while I'm enjoying myself.  My overall experience is better with my AP-2's because I like the way they look at address.  I hit them as well as anything I've tried, maybe not as far, but they aren't lofted as strongly as some other irons.  My manhood isn't threatened if I have to play a 6I when others are playing a 7 or even an 8.

I usually welcome new members, but when you come in with your head down and break down the door, I'm not sure what to make of it.  Most new posters make at least a slight effort at being personable and friendly.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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I want to accomplish one thing in here, if anyone is on the fence about buying a GI iron for any reason whether that is they look stupid, don't want to look stupid, or don't think they hit the ball poorly enough to constitute using them, maybe this will help them feel better about it. I felt the same way for my entire life, it took me hearing accomplished PGA tour pros playing PING G15 irons to even put the thought into my mind. Literally the sole smartest decision I have ever made in my golf career was switching to PING G15 GI irons, even if that only means I hit 1 more green in an 18 hole round that means I save a stroke or 3 and that is the difference between winning and losing.

I've read so many posts like this over the past few years and so many comments from people who are not elite golfers telling other non elite golfers to go ahead and use a fancy club that won't help them. I couldn't take it anymore!

If the club looks nice to you at address you're not going to hit the ball any better, confidence isn't going to prevent you from going over the top, hitting it 1 mm off center and it certainly wont prevent the ball from fading 10 yards, being short 10 yard and it wont prevent that missed green from turning a 2 putt par into a 2 putt bogey or double bogey.

Like I said, I think PING is ugly, I hate that it's not a nice shiny chrome, I have how fat the club looks at address, but I will smoke you on the course.

No one really cares that Rickie Fowler looks pretty ridiculous when he golfs (much less now than 3 years ago) because he can play. But when you are at a pub links and see someone head to toe in orange with a flatbill you're going to think it's a terrible golfer / poser, but if you see someone with blades you're going to assume they are a good golfer, until you play with them and they shoot an 85 on a 5800 yard course.

Buying golf clubs is not any different than basketball shoes. Sure, if you wear a pair of Jordan's or LeBron's you might look cool, you might even feel good about yourself and even if you think deep down it will make you play better it wont. Even if it raises your confidence a little it's not going to make you have better shooting for or in the case of golf hit more consistent shots.

What the majority of people don't realize is that pro basketball players get their shoes made to the specifications of their foot, LeBron James once threw his shoes into the crowd after a game only to have someone chase them down a few minutes later and get his orthotics out of the shoe first.

The exact same goes for golf clubs, take the KJ Choi going to Golf Galaxy in Dublin Ohio and buying some Mizuno clubs off the shelf which he played all 4 days of the Memorial that year. He tried several sets of Mizuno and bought the only set which had the exact swing weight of each club.

Rickie Fowlers Scotty Cameron which he used to win the Players, looks like any other GSS Cameron except there is the ever so slightest modifications that would be almost unnoticeable to the eye.

You can go buy the Bubba Watson Pink G30 driver, but you're not going to put 13 wraps of tape on one side and 11 on the other hand.

My point is that even your good amateur golfer probably doesn't have the proper grip size, proper wraps of tape, proper loft and lie adjustments done and their clubs wont have consistent swing weights. Unless you plan on doing ALL of those things, stay away from blades unless you're a +1 handicap.

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People should buy and play whatever irons they like for whatever reasons they deem appropriate.

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Joe Paradiso

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People should buy and play whatever irons they like for whatever reasons they deem appropriate.

Agree with one caveat: if they want to play better golf they should buy what suits their games. I play X-22s and when I first got them I hated their looks but I got over it and now I love the way they "take care of me".

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

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Like I said, I think PING is ugly, I hate that it's not a nice shiny chrome, I have how fat the club looks at address, but I will smoke you on the course.

I am betting you could get a few takers from here on the above comment ... if you put up enough cash ... Also my google search for game improvement basketball shoes came up fairly empty Last but certainly not least ... welcome to TST.

Ken Proud member of the iSuk Golf Association ... Sponsored by roofing companies across the US, Canada, and the UK

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...

My point is that even your good amateur golfer probably doesn't have the proper grip size, proper wraps of tape, proper loft and lie adjustments done and their clubs wont have consistent swing weights. Unless you plan on doing ALL of those things, stay away from blades unless you're a +1 handicap.

I have to wonder how in the world we all managed to score just as well (and often better) as GI sycophants back when blades were all there were!

Troll on, brother. Play what you like. :whistle:

Craig

:wilsonstaff: - FG Tour F5
:wilsonstaff: - Fybrid 3W 15*, FY 19.5*, 4H 24*
:wilsonstaff: - FG 51 Tour Blade 4-9
:wilson: - Harmonized 50, 55, 60
Old Master - TZ Putter

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I am betting you could get a few takers from here on the above comment ... if you put up enough cash ...

Also my google search for game improvement basketball shoes came up fairly empty

Last but certainly not least ... welcome to TST.

I don't know about you guys but I could definitely jump higher when I got my first pair of Chuck Taylors.

It's ironic he's such a  proponent of the G15's because I got stuck renting them at an out of state outing (only lefty clubs they had) and I thought they were the most horrible clubs I'd ever seen and used.  I couldn't wait for the round to end just so I wouldn't have to look at them any longer.

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Joe Paradiso

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Quote:

Originally Posted by isukgolf

I am betting you could get a few takers from here on the above comment ... if you put up enough cash ...

Also my google search for game improvement basketball shoes came up fairly empty

Last but certainly not least ... welcome to TST.

I don't know about you guys but I could definitely jump higher when I got my first pair of Chuck Taylors.

It's ironic he's such a  proponent of the G15's because I got stuck renting them at an out of state outing (only lefty clubs they had) and I thought they were the most horrible clubs I'd ever seen and used.  I couldn't wait for the round to end just so I wouldn't have to look at them any longer.

I simply can't stand offset irons.  All I can see at address is that honking big hosel just waiting to sh*^k my ball off at a 45° angle.  I'd rather play with a garden spade. :no:

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Honestly, it's a preference...  It's not all about forgiveness.  Some players want a certain turf interaction, some want to be able to work the ball more- left and right, and flight it better....  Each player has to know their own swing and  will eventually determine what they think is best for them... some don't like to see a thick topline, some want a more narrow sole, some do have an ego, some don't...   to each his own....   GI clubs are great and have many qualities that help a player fight a slice or get the ball up... some players don't need that help and can actually be hurt by that in a club...    It all depends on what you are looking for in a club and what qualities you want...   I agree don't worry about what people will think about the club you're playing and go with what you like or what you want in a club....

It always crack me up when a 2yr old thread gets revived. Hehe


HA....   The irony...

@Blake Swineford - Welcome to TST....   Look man, you have a lot of good feedback and points - but your approach comes across very negative and condescending toward the majority of posters.  You can say almost the same thing with regard to your point without calling everyone else a jackazz that doesn't have the same point of view or opinion as you or that you think you are better than because of that little handicap posted by their name....

I've read so many posts like this over the past few years and so many comments from people who are not elite golfers telling other non elite golfers to go ahead and use a fancy club that won't help them. I couldn't take it anymore!

P.S. - Even if you're an "elite" golfer - that doesn't mean sht...   Pros differ on this topic too -

P.S. - I understand what your saying, but that's some dumb sht too...    keep sizing them up...    I'm that guy that will go out with players irons shoot an 85 on a 5800 yard course and have way more fun than you shooting scratch from 7500 with your GI clubs...    Don't judge or assume your being judged and secondly don't give a sh*t if you are being judged anyway- (this makes your point to a degree about not playing GI because of perception)....

Originally Posted by Blake Swineford

What the majority of people don't realize is that pro basketball players get their shoes made to the specifications of their foot, LeBron James once threw his shoes into the crowd after a game only to have someone chase them down a few minutes later and get his orthotics out of the shoe first.

The exact same goes for golf clubs

P.S.  What the majority of golfer on this site know....  is that pros have their clubs built to their specifications...   You're not really breaking news to us here...

Like I said, man, you have some very good points in regards to why many people should play GI clubs, but the manner in which you come across is condescending and not a good look for a limited poster on the site.   Hang around, continue to post, share your knowledge and opinions but in not such a negative way....  Welcome, enjoy- have fun with it...   Be easy... :beer:

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JP

In the bag:  R1 Diver, Rocketballz 3 tour spoon (13*), Adams A12 pro 18* hybrid, 4-P Callaway Razr x black (dg s400 shafts), 50* & 58* Ping Tour S, and TM Ghost Manta Putter cut down to 32". and my Tour V2 Rangefinder (with extra batteries of course)!  Ball - Srixon Z Star XV

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Thanks to Golf WRX for posting this today :banana: . I love what the writer left at the end, "Sorecards don't care about head size."

This was just too relevant not to repost!

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From the original question and reading through the posts it looks like

GI improvement irons are not as accurate when swung perfectly as players irons? Is that right? But most players benefit most from GI irons until they get that perfect swing, right? Just trying to wrap my head around this

Driver - Ping G15 12 Degree Loft
3W - Ping G10
3 Hyrbrid - Ping G15
4-PW - Taylormade Burner 2.0
Putter - Ping Anser 2

My swing (help is much appreciated) - http://thesandtrap.com/t/80964/my-swing-logo

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It's an interesting question

When I shop irons, I just try a lot of them and go with whatever looks good to the eye, and then what performs best to my swing.  Mostly just the quality of contact and repeatability - but I also have a component of controllability (up/down) and shapeability (left/right) that I'd like to pretend I can affect.....

1 - GI's just look horrible to me.  It does affect how I feel while standing over that ball.

2 - I just plain hit the GI irons a LOT worse than the other types.  I don't know why

3 - The contact on the GI's actually feels worse for me also

4 - Harder to control, even is shaping isn't that different

5 - this, and the MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL.  All that geometry is just plain a lot harder to clean.

First time fitted - I got player cavities and loved them

This last time - I got a muscle back design and I'm even happier

I think each person should shop and keep EVERY OPTION on the board - then pick what works best and get fitted correctly.  Let the fitting drive the choice - not any preconceptions or ego.

Bill - 

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From the original question and reading through the posts it looks like

GI improvement irons are not as accurate when swung perfectly as players irons? Is that right? But most players benefit most from GI irons until they get that perfect swing, right? Just trying to wrap my head around this

For golfers who don't consistently make contact with the sweet spot of the clubface, GI irons will usually be more accurate - "accurate" in the sense that they're more forgiving and thus, more likely to go in the general direction and general distance you intended.  A miss with a player's iron will usually be more penal than a miss with a GI iron.

The most-touted advantage of player's irons is that you're more able to work the ball (draw, fade, altitude) - but I've seen plenty of golfers who are able to work shots with GI irons quite well.

Mac

WITB:
Driver: Ping G30 (12*)
FW:  Ping K15 (3W, 5W)
Hybrids: Ping K15 (3H, 5H)
Irons: Ping K15 (6-UW)

Wedges: Cleveland 588 RTX CB (54*, 58*)

Putter: Ping Scottsdale w/ SS Slim 3.0

Ball: Bridgestone e6

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I play mizuno mx25. I hit it long and easy with these clubs. (170m out my 6 iron on a good shot for example).

my ap2 are in a closet as they are too demanding. I keep them for when I will have a better technique.

I do notice many players getting bad result out of average hits because they have demanding clubs.

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I went away from long irons (and even my 5 and 6) and went to hybrids, which are far easier to hit.

-Jerry

Driver: Titleist 913 D3 (9.5 degree) – Aldila RIP 60-2.9-Stiff; Callaway Mini-Driver Kura Kage 60g shaft - 12 degree Hybrids: Callway X2 Hot Pro - 16 degree & 23 degree – Pro-Shaft; Callway X2 Hot – 5H & 6H Irons: Titleist 714 AP2 7 thru AW with S300 Dynamic Gold Wedges: Titleist Vokey GW (54 degree), Callaway MackDaddy PM Grind SW (58 degree) Putter: Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Heavy Balls: Titleist Pro V1x & Snell MyTourBall

"Golf is the closest game to the game we call life. You get bad breaks from good shots; you get good breaks from bad shots but you have to play the ball where it lies."- Bobby Jones

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For me I do think better player irons are more accurate.

Off center hits feel very similar to centered hits on a GI and SGI clubs. This will create a problem because a strike is still off centered and is a slight mishit. For better players, who strike near the center of the club more often, not being able to tell the difference can probably cause inconsistent results. Some shots might be more towards the expected landing zones, and others might not be, yet the two strikes could feel identical.

In terms of ball movement, on centered hits you can work the ball right and left with non-GI clubs and GI clubs.

For me, I like the look of non-GI clubs. Also they tend to offer better shaft options for people who swing at higher speeds.

I do use more GI equipment in the long iron to hybrid range. I think a good option is a mixed set of non-GI from wedges to 7 iron then adding more GI going into the long irons.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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In terms of ball movement, on centered hits you can work the ball right and left with non-GI clubs and GI clubs.

thanks for that.

My understanding is "workability" (left/right) is something you can do with any club

The point about GI irons is more forgiving in hitting the expected loft  - which means it's not as easy in "controllability" (up lofting and downlofting)

I'm not sure if that's correct, but it makes sense that a big cavity would help both, but up/down would be dramatic, and left/right would be there, but very low - even unnoticable

Bill - 

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For me I do think better player irons are more accurate.

Off center hits feel very similar to centered hits on a GI and SGI clubs. This will create a problem because a strike is still off centered and is a slight mishit. For better players, who strike near the center of the club more often, not being able to tell the difference can probably cause inconsistent results. Some shots might be more towards the expected landing zones, and others might not be, yet the two strikes could feel identical.

In terms of ball movement, on centered hits you can work the ball right and left with non-GI clubs and GI clubs.

For me, I like the look of non-GI clubs. Also they tend to offer better shaft options for people who swing at higher speeds.

I do use more GI equipment in the long iron to hybrid range. I think a good option is a mixed set of non-GI from wedges to 7 iron then adding more GI going into the long irons.

I agree for maybe the better players, but I think for average players, who follow the Lowest Score Wins book, hitting it on the green with a repeatable shot flight is more important than being able to draw or fade the balls at will.

-Jerry

Driver: Titleist 913 D3 (9.5 degree) – Aldila RIP 60-2.9-Stiff; Callaway Mini-Driver Kura Kage 60g shaft - 12 degree Hybrids: Callway X2 Hot Pro - 16 degree & 23 degree – Pro-Shaft; Callway X2 Hot – 5H & 6H Irons: Titleist 714 AP2 7 thru AW with S300 Dynamic Gold Wedges: Titleist Vokey GW (54 degree), Callaway MackDaddy PM Grind SW (58 degree) Putter: Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Heavy Balls: Titleist Pro V1x & Snell MyTourBall

"Golf is the closest game to the game we call life. You get bad breaks from good shots; you get good breaks from bad shots but you have to play the ball where it lies."- Bobby Jones

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