Tiger Woods will never regain golf dominance

[franky21]

Originally Posted by Brant17

My two cents on the whole Tiger situation....

First, I have several friends that are on the PGA tour that know Tiger first hand. As far as the cheating on the wife thing is concerned....Tiger has not done half of what a big majority of the PGA tour players do. Yes, he cheated on his wife! Yes, it was wrong! For people that cannot get over that then that is obviously your own problem. My PGA tour buddies told me that well over half of the tour players cheat on there wives at tournaments. They also told me that the media blew a bunch of the Tiger issue out of proportion. He is obviously in the lime light so there for his mistakes show up more so than other players. And for those of you are thinking it.... I am not saying it is right to go out and cheat on your spouse. I personally don't care what you, TW, or anyone else does in there personal life.

second, Tiger is a champion. He always has been. His problems on the course right now are not all in his head. They are more in his swing mechanics. He his trying to make some major mechanical changes to become better. Tiger will become the world #1 again, he will win more majors, and he will go on to be the greatest player to ever play the game.

Finally someone that is seeing what im seeing Tiger historically has played poorly when he has been in the process of changing his swing. No one wins enough to challenge him and like i said before Westwood got to number one with a couple top five finishes and nursing a injury at home so what makes you think Tiger wont get 6 top five finishes and realistically thats all he needs to become numero uno again. He will win again and again cause no one is consistent enough to beat him.

[franky21]

Originally Posted by RichF

Quote:

The cheating-issue is old news.

What's happening now...a full 1 year on...is alarming.

Everyone goes on about how 'rusty' he is after a long layoff (not that long: he playd 5 fewer tournaments than usual in 2010) and how his new swing is a 'work-in-progress' and that eventually, he'll get it back (really? last time he changed his swing, it took him just 5 months before he was hitting thE Top-5 n tournaments again and another 6 months before the 'W's started appearing again)

Bottom-line:

If you're a 'Tiger-Fan' and you're 20 years old (the two usually go hand-in-hand): then you'll think, "Yeah, he's the Man, he did all this for the world of Golf, he can get it back, he'll start winning, he's flawed-but-arent-we-all" BS, then sure, he'll pass Jack Nicklaus by 2013 and you can carry on playing 'EA Sports Tiger Woods 2XXX' to your heart's content.

Everyone else who's smart: carry on as you were.

your wrong he just won once and 0 majors both times he changed his swing so this shouldnt be a shock that he isnt playing well and the season just started lets wait until the us open is over at least to see how he is looking.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

and if he doesn't, are you going to spontaneously combust?

And if he does (combust), will his so-knowledgeable friend - the one who knows all the details about the private lives of tour pros - spontaneously combust along with him?

[alo1984]

Originally Posted by Chas

Where have I stated, or even implied, that "Tiger hasn't made huge strides for the game of golf"? You're just making things up.

I spoke to Watson last week - and I'm not talking about the golfing Watson - and he told me that Tiger gave him the idea of the double helix structure of DNA.  Actually, to be serious, I learned that he's more of a tennis player than a golfer but what the hey ...

If you were to take the trouble to read my posts on TW in the past year or so you would learn what I think of him 1) as a golfer, and 2) as a person.  Try not to get those simple concepts confused.

This thread gets more entertaining by the day.

Well said RichF, I think I know which side of the divide you're on.  They'll learn eventually.  In the meantime, sympathy is in order.  It can't be pleasant to be one of those making excuses all the time.

Guy, I'm simply responding to the post you wrote that I subsequently responded to.  I don't have the time or desire to comb through your other 990 posts to see what you have said about Tiger Woods.

Watson the scientist and Watson the computer aren't exactly relevant to the topic, either.

I just find it purely denial and somewhat confusing for anyone to discount what a super star like TW does for their respective sport.  Take a bunch of vanilla golfers (I don't mean skin color) like we have playing now and see how far the game progresses.  It will go backwards.

For that reason I hope (but do not believe) that Tiger will rebound.

[RichF]

Unfortunately a lot of posters on the Internet fall into the type those who 'fall-in-love-with-a-player'  - and consequently are doomed to an emotional roller coaster and not able to enjoy golf at the level as people who love golf itself.

Personally, I have an appreciation for watching the game at it's highest level - and every Thursday is great for me because I get to watch every tournament from the PGA Tour, European Tour and The Majors, year-in, year-out....and there is always someone is always playing at that 'great' level.

It might be for only that week, but it's still great for me to watch.

To me, golf is in a very healthy state now because of the rotating World #1s, The European Tour matching the PGA Tour in terms of depth-of-talent-talent - yet at the same time we have these 'player-fans' crying because they desperately want Tiger to get back to how he was because ratings are down, it affects the overall game, it's boring without him, blah-blah-blah...

'The Woods Followers', it is as if they're like a scorned ex-girlfriend mad at their partner because he's no longer fulfilling their emotional needs.

If he does ever get back into the Top-5, he'll just be another professional golf player....but one with a great past.

[basscat348]

I bet he starts using his real name soon eldrick,whatta you think ? He has lost the privelage to use the name tiger,how is it even possible to use an alias like tiger anyways .

[Brant17]

Did anyone catch Lee Westwoods quote on golf channel yesterday?? He said something along the lines of....."If anyone is stupid enough to think that Tiger will not come back and regain world dominance then they are crazy"

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by RichF

Unfortunately a lot of posters on the Internet fall into the type those who 'fall-in-love-with-a-player'  - and consequently are doomed to an emotional roller coaster and not able to enjoy golf at the level as people who love golf itself.

Personally, I have an appreciation for watching the game at it's highest level - and every Thursday is great for me because I get to watch every tournament from the PGA Tour, European Tour and The Majors, year-in, year-out....and there is always someone is always playing at that 'great' level.

It might be for only that week, but it's still great for me to watch.

To me, golf is in a very healthy state now because of the rotating World #1s, The European Tour matching the PGA Tour in terms of depth-of-talent-talent - yet at the same time we have these 'player-fans' crying because they desperately want Tiger to get back to how he was because ratings are down, it affects the overall game, it's boring without him, blah-blah-blah...

'The Woods Followers', it is as if they're like a scorned ex-girlfriend mad at their partner because he's no longer fulfilling their emotional needs.

If he does ever get back into the Top-5, he'll just be another professional golf player....but one with a great past.

I'm with you on this.  It does seem kind of weird the man-love that some folks have for Tiger.  I'm reminded of the obnoxious guy on those Slazenger commercials who yells stupid things (Call Miss Daisy, we have a driver?!?!?) after the other guy hits the ball.  It's like those teenage girls who scream after their favorite actor/actress passes them on the red carpet leading to the Oscars. Do they hope some of that fame will magically rub off on them?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I'm with you on this.  It does seem kind of weird the man-love that some folks have for Tiger.  I'm reminded of the obnoxious guy on those Slazenger commercials who yells stupid things (Call Miss Daisy, we have a driver?!?!?) after the other guy hits the ball.  It's like those teenage girls who scream after their favorite actor/actress passes them on the red carpet leading to the Oscars. Do they hope some of that fame will magically rub off on them?

I feel the "man love" and "fanboy" stuff is overstated by people who really don't like Tiger Woods and yet try very hard to lay claim to some sort of moral high ground for being "objective" when they're quite likely as far from the center as the people they're labeling as "Tiger fanboys" or whatnot.

Am I a Tiger fanboy? I've been called one numerous times. My stance on Tiger is that:

1. He's the best player we've seen in the last 30 years.
2. I don't care one bit about his personal life.
3. I'd like to see him get back on top because he's not a robot and I want to see a record broken during my lifetime.
4. I recognize the things he did to affect the purse, draw people to golf, and so on (without over-estimating those things)

That's all. That's all a lot of people are saying, and yet they're labeled as Tiger fanboys or have a case of "man love."

Now admittedly I've not read everything here, not even close, so maybe there are some actual Fanboys in here. But just consider that the other person, if they thought the way you thought, could very easily call you a Tiger Hater and be just as correct as you are in calling them a Fanboy.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by iacas

I feel the "man love" and "fanboy" stuff is overstated by people who really don't like Tiger Woods and yet try very hard to lay claim to some sort of moral high ground for being "objective" when they're quite likely as far from the center as the people they're labeling as "Tiger fanboys" or whatnot.

Am I a Tiger fanboy? I've been called one numerous times. My stance on Tiger is that:

He's the best player we've seen in the last 30 years.

I don't care one bit about his personal life.

I'd like to see him get back on top because he's not a robot and I want to see a record broken during my lifetime.

I recognize the things he did to affect the purse, draw people to golf, and so on (without over-estimating those things)

That's all. That's all a lot of people are saying, and yet they're labeled as Tiger fanboys or have a case of "man love."

Now admittedly I've not read everything here, not even close, so maybe there are some actual Fanboys in here. But just consider that the other person, if they thought the way you thought, could very easily call you a Tiger Hater and be just as correct as you are in calling them a Fanboy.

I think there is a big difference between being in awe of and appreciative of Tiger's extreme talent and his record (objective, IMO) and declaring that he is the sole reason that professional golf exists today, and will never again be the same after he has gone (fan boy, IMO).  Those same things were probably said by fan boys about Babe Ruth in the 1930's, but along came Dimaggio, Williams, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Jackson, Bonds.  They were probably said about Bobby Jones, too, yet along came Hogan, Snead, Nelson, Palmer, Nicklaus, Watson and, yes, Woods.

It's the irrational reverence of all things Woods that strikes me as odd.

[allin]

Originally Posted by iPutt

Why is this even a discussion? Bad golf for Tiger is amazing golf for 75% of the tour. You know how many guys grind it out on tour every year just to make the top 125 on the money list? Tiger will play almost half the tournaments they do and still place near the top (last year being an exception). And lets be honest here, even if he retired today he could still be the best/most dominant player to ever play the game of golf. He has 14 times the number of majors as the 2 guys ahead of him in the world ranking combined. Lets face it, last year was a fluke, he'll pretty much always contend in the majors, and he's nowhere near done winning yet.

Bandwagon / mob mentality dominates internet and public discussion much of the time it seems to me.  Although hardly a new thing modern technology adds to the speed and exaggerates the effect.  Either way this will be a great story.  If he returns to dominance it will be a huge story.  If he doesn't it might be even bigger.  Great golfers have faded or retired young often in the past.  The desire required plus the combination of physical and mental abilities required is daunting.  Especially if you are wealthy and tire of hearing everyone's opinion and the media stalkers etc.

[newtogolf]

There are a number of reasons why golf is considered to be declining in the US;

1. The economy
2. Tiger and Phil not playing to the levels they had been, especially Tiger given his chase of the Majors record
3. Failure of other US players to step up and dominate the tour like Tiger and Phil once did
4. Current world rankings that have 4 non-US players 1-4 and some of the top Europeans players decision to not play as many tournaments on the PGA tour.

This doesn't mean the tour players aren't good or the quality of golf isn't as good.  Tiger attracted the attention of alot of non-golfers not only because he was/is a great golfer, but because of his entire back story.  If another U.S. golfer steps up and dominates like Tiger once did (hopefully Bubba Watson) then golf could gain in popularity again here, but if Tiger gets his swing back, starts to win Majors and chase the record it surely will because he'll dominate the headlines again.

[sean_miller]

Very insightful - makes sense to me. Like said earlier, one of these "young guns" needs to step up.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

There are a number of reasons why golf is considered to be declining in the US;

The economy

Tiger and Phil not playing to the levels they had been, especially Tiger given his chase of the Majors record

Failure of other US players to step up and dominate the tour like Tiger and Phil once did

Current world rankings that have 4 non-US players 1-4 and some of the top Europeans players decision to not play as many tournaments on the PGA tour.

This doesn't mean the tour players aren't good or the quality of golf isn't as good.  Tiger attracted the attention of alot of non-golfers not only because he was/is a great golfer, but because of his entire back story.  If another U.S. golfer steps up and dominates like Tiger once did (hopefully Bubba Watson) then golf could gain in popularity again here, but if Tiger gets his swing back, starts to win Majors and chase the record it surely will because he'll dominate the headlines again.

[mtsalmela80]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

There are a number of reasons why golf is considered to be declining in the US;

The economy

Tiger and Phil not playing to the levels they had been, especially Tiger given his chase of the Majors record

Failure of other US players to step up and dominate the tour like Tiger and Phil once did

Current world rankings that have 4 non-US players 1-4 and some of the top Europeans players decision to not play as many tournaments on the PGA tour.

This doesn't mean the tour players aren't good or the quality of golf isn't as good.  Tiger attracted the attention of alot of non-golfers not only because he was/is a great golfer, but because of his entire back story.  If another U.S. golfer steps up and dominates like Tiger once did (hopefully Bubba Watson) then golf could gain in popularity again here, but if Tiger gets his swing back, starts to win Majors and chase the record it surely will because he'll dominate the headlines again.

Exactly what back story is that? His father had a club in his hands before his 2nd birthday, only soon after that showing him off on TV. He was raised and bred to play golf. There will never be another golfer as big as Tiger, even if they break all the major records themselves. He is a phenom, but he is also black, which went against the grain of "golf culture" to some degree whether you want to admit it or not. If Tiger was just another white guy, he might have been big, but it would not have had the impact he did.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I think there is a big difference between being in awe of and appreciative of Tiger's extreme talent and his record (objective, IMO) and declaring that he is the sole reason that professional golf exists today, and will never again be the same after he has gone (fan boy, IMO).

I'd agree with that. Again, I haven't read the majority of the posts here. Just consider that there's two sides. Don't become the anti-fanboys (anyone, not directed at you H). Don't become fanboys either.

[alo1984]

I kind of feel like everyone is saying the same thing at this point...

[jldavis73]

Originally Posted by mtsalmela80

Exactly what back story is that? His father had a club in his hands before his 2nd birthday, only soon after that showing him off on TV. He was raised and bred to play golf. There will never be another golfer as big as Tiger, even if they break all the major records themselves. He is a phenom, but he is also black, which went against the grain of "golf culture" to some degree whether you want to admit it or not. If Tiger was just another white guy, he might have been big, but it would not have had the impact he did.

I respectfully ask you to consider this: how "big" would a dominant golfer from the Far East be?  Imagine a Chinese golfer ascending to World #1.  His impact would dwarf Tiger's.  There is always someone who is "the Greatest", until the next one comes along.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by alo1984

Guy, I'm simply responding to the post you wrote that I subsequently responded to.  I don't have the time or desire to comb through your other 990 posts to see what you have said about Tiger Woods.

I can understand that ..... but then please don't impute opinions to me that I do not hold.  Thanks a bunch.

Originally Posted by alo1984

Watson the scientist and Watson the computer aren't exactly relevant to the topic, either.

I was taking the mick (TW as Superman).  It is hard for me not to so so, my bad.  10 demerits for me.

Originally Posted by alo1984

I just find it purely denial and somewhat confusing for anyone to discount what a super star like TW does for their respective sport.

I repeat, I'm not saying TW wasn't a superstar - he was the brightest in the firmament - but right now he's more of a black hole.  Let's hope he starts burning bright again.

Originally Posted by alo1984

Take a bunch of vanilla golfers (I don't mean skin color) like we have playing now and see how far the game progresses.  It will go backwards.

So here we have it.  Everyone else is "a bunch of vanilla golfers", and only your hero Tiger has any flavor.  That is my definition of a boyfan, and it really makes me wonder how much you truly appreciate the game of golf as it is played professionally.

Originally Posted by alo1984

For that reason I hope (but do not believe) that Tiger will rebound.

On that at least we can agree.