Stock shafts vs. After-market shafts

[enis750]

Im going to try and say this with the most respect i can (tone of voice is hard to read into on internet forums)

ask for lessons

your obviously serious about the game, otherwise you wouldnt be here...right???

from a personal expereience, i have been golfing since i was 13
had my first real lesson 3 months ago and i cant even comprehend the difference it has made for me
my instructor was pretty stoked that i made it to a 3 on my own
with his help, he is confident i will be close to scratch by then end of next year....which is where i want to be

there is only so much you can do on your own bro

anyways...not a stab at you or your game
but if your serious and want to improve.....get some lessons and tune your gear afterwards

[motteler621]

Im going to try and say this with the most respect i can (tone of voice is hard to read into on internet forums)

yea lessons are always good. I just got done with a few months of lessons with golf evolution, I have a casio fh25 camera for 240fps videos. Those lessons were greatly needed for my game but I had to stop due to weather for now. Just working on ingraining what I learned in the meantime.

[WUTiger]

Stock shafts are designed to work OK for a majority of golfers. That said, the stock shaft may not be "the best" once you get your swing grooved.

On my D and 3W, the Tour model stock shafts are R-flex and midkick, with moderate Torque. They work fine. I was hitting my old driver with a low kickpoint too high.

As for the Uniflex iron shafts, I've considered alternatives but haven't made the switch yet. Honestly, my iron shafts aren't what's keeping me off the PGA tour; alas, it's operator error.

[wedge player]

I'm only writing these to keep the record straight. I find it amusing and yet pathetic all at the same time when people talk about what stock shaft to put into their new heads. Granted, I know many on here are young, with little spending money to go out and spend a few more bucks on something better.

Stock shafts are garbage. I love when people talk about their RIP, Aldila, or even any shaft that reads "co-engineered." These shafts are worth no more than $2 (and that's the truth). They are VERY inconsistant from one shaft to the other with exact flex and gram weight. So you think you are buying a 65 gram S shaft? Think again. These are not the real deal.

After-market shafts like Mitsubishi Kai'li (btw Titleist lovers, your Kai'li 72 is junk...Mitsubishi doesn't make a 72 gram shaft), Attas T2, Motore Speeder (the real thing), S1 and S2 Series made by Accra, and 'Ahina are just some common aftermarket shafts names that out perform ANY stock shaft.

-A little insight-

If your shaft costs less than $180...it is a joke. In my opinion, the shaft is more important than the head itself.

[tweaky]

Alpha also makes some very fine shafts.  Their Platinum series has been a well engineered model for many years.  their Luxe iron shafts are also topnotch.

[BeefJerky]

Couldn't disagree with you more.

Alpha shafts waste my time running them to the dumpster. Their gram weight alone is too low to be durable for anybody who swings more than 80 mph. LOL

Luxe Shafts are worse!!

You're bringing lightweight shafts into a discussion where people actually enjoy that stuff. That is why I posted this in the first place...people like yourself who think but don't know.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by BeefJerky

Granted, I know many on here are young...

You're younger than over 65% of the members here. You don't have room to talk.

Originally Posted by BeefJerky

Mitsubishi doesn't make a 72 gram shaft

Really?

http://www.mitsubishirayongolf.com/product.php?cmd=ndia_ahina〈=en

http://www.mitsubishirayongolf.com/product.php?cmd=ndia_ilima〈=en

Maybe you specifically meant the Kai'li but you didn't say so who knows. They make a 71 gram Kai'li. It's conceivable that the 72 gram version is one of the incredibly subtle tweaks they make to suit the head.

I've talked to Mitsubishi. I've talked to Grafalloy. I've talked to several shaft makers, both on and off the record. They'll all tell you the same thing: "We wouldn't put our name on the product if it didn't represent the product properly." I'm inclined to believe them because it both makes sense and I've talked with folks very much off the record. If you think about it, the last thing these shaft manufacturers would want is for a stock shaft - the way 95% of shafts are sold - to get a bad reputation. "The only difference in the co-engineered shafts is that they'll tweak the torque or flex point slightly to best suit the head." The club companies also get them in a bulk discount. I've talked to master clubfitters and they back all of this up as well, and if they can make a few bucks upselling, they will, so I'm inclined to believe them too.

The shafts you pay $180+ for? Still cost $20 to make, just like the "co-engineered" shafts. The Voodoo sold for $400 when it first came out, and the "designed by" Voodooos tested virtually identically to the $400 ones. But so long as there are people like you, oh aged, wise one who insist that a shaft is "crap" unless it costs two bills or more, well, there's a market...

Is there a chance the shafts are a tad better? Sure. The QA isn't as strict (it's still gotta pass the company QA tests or else Titleist or TaylorMade or whomever can send them back, and regularly do), but nowhere near the level of a $200+. Not at your level of play (nor mine, nor anyone who isn't competing for at least tens of thousands of dollars each week).

BTW, since your original username is Peano, we'll await a response from that username. Your duplicate BeefJerky account has been suspended.

[max power]

There's a sucker born every minute.  Also, one starts posting here every month.

[mlf16507]

Great to know I can build a GREAT driver with an Attas T2 shaft for under $440.00

Attas T2 shaft-$399.99

Close out Titanium head -$29.95

Sharpo Grip-$.89

Ferrule,tape solvent-$ .50

Total---$431.33

[Saxguy102]

Some people also don't have another $300 to throw after a shaft after dumping $350-$400 on a driver.  Im sure the after market shafts are excellent but when tested and fitted and a stock shaft is what is needed, I see nothing wrong with that.

[LBlack14]

Originally Posted by BeefJerky

I'm only writing these to keep the record straight. I find it amusing and yet pathetic all at the same time when people talk about what stock shaft to put into their new heads. Granted, I know many on here are young, with little spending money to go out and spend a few more bucks on something better.

Stock shafts are garbage. I love when people talk about their RIP, Aldila, or even any shaft that reads "co-engineered." These shafts are worth no more than $2 (and that's the truth). They are VERY inconsistant from one shaft to the other with exact flex and gram weight. So you think you are buying a 65 gram S shaft? Think again. These are not the real deal.

After-market shafts like Mitsubishi Kai'li (btw Titleist lovers, your Kai'li 72 is junk...Mitsubishi doesn't make a 72 gram shaft), Attas T2, Motore Speeder (the real thing), S1 and S2 Series made by Accra, and 'Ahina are just some common aftermarket shafts names that out perform ANY stock shaft.

-A little insight-

If your shaft costs less than $180...it is a joke. In my opinion, the shaft is more important than the head itself.

Originally Posted by iacas

You're younger than over 65% of the members here. You don't have room to talk.

Really?

http://www.mitsubishirayongolf.com/product.php?cmd=ndia_ahina〈=en

http://www.mitsubishirayongolf.com/product.php?cmd=ndia_ilima〈=en

Maybe you specifically meant the Kai'li but you didn't say so who knows. They make a 71 gram Kai'li. It's conceivable that the 72 gram version is one of the incredibly subtle tweaks they make to suit the head.

I've talked to Mitsubishi. I've talked to Grafalloy. I've talked to several shaft makers, both on and off the record. They'll all tell you the same thing: "We wouldn't put our name on the product if it didn't represent the product properly." I'm inclined to believe them because it both makes sense and I've talked with folks very much off the record. If you think about it, the last thing these shaft manufacturers would want is for a stock shaft - the way 95% of shafts are sold - to get a bad reputation. "The only difference in the co-engineered shafts is that they'll tweak the torque or flex point slightly to best suit the head." The club companies also get them in a bulk discount. I've talked to master clubfitters and they back all of this up as well, and if they can make a few bucks upselling, they will, so I'm inclined to believe them too.

The shafts you pay $180+ for? Still cost $20 to make, just like the "co-engineered" shafts. The Voodoo sold for $400 when it first came out, and the "designed by" Voodooos tested virtually identically to the $400 ones. But so long as there are people like you, oh aged, wise one who insist that a shaft is "crap" unless it costs two bills or more, well, there's a market...

Is there a chance the shafts are a tad better? Sure. The QA isn't as strict (it's still gotta pass the company QA tests or else Titleist or TaylorMade or whomever can send them back, and regularly do), but nowhere near the level of a $200+. Not at your level of play (nor mine, nor anyone who isn't competing for at least tens of thousands of dollars each week).

BTW, since your original username is Peano, we'll await a response from that username. Your duplicate BeefJerky account has been suspended.

Thank you for saving me the time and effort to type and use proper verbiage. I wouldn't suspend him though, I love to hear people try to talk with their foot hanging out of their mouths.

***APPLAUSE!***

[Macklessdaddy]

I'm sure he was suspended for the 2nd account but that was some serious pwnage

[tweaky]

glad i wasn't standing next to him when THAT happened! i wouldn't want any of THAT getting splattered on me!! LOL!

[TinCupTampa]

Originally Posted by iacas

I've talked to Mitsubishi. I've talked to Grafalloy. I've talked to several shaft makers, both on and off the record. They'll all tell you the same thing: "We wouldn't put our name on the product if it didn't represent the product properly." I'm inclined to believe them because it both makes sense and I've talked with folks very much off the record. If you think about it, the last thing these shaft manufacturers would want is for a stock shaft - the way 95% of shafts are sold - to get a bad reputation. "The only difference in the co-engineered shafts is that they'll tweak the torque or flex point slightly to best suit the head." The club companies also get them in a bulk discount. I've talked to master clubfitters and they back all of this up as well, and if they can make a few bucks upselling, they will, so I'm inclined to believe them too.

Is there a chance the shafts are a tad better? Sure. The QA isn't as strict (it's still gotta pass the company QA tests or else Titleist or TaylorMade or whomever can send them back, and regularly do), but nowhere near the level of a $200+. Not at your level of play (nor mine, nor anyone who isn't competing for at least tens of thousands of dollars each week).

Come on Erik, What do you expect Mitsubishi and Grafalloy to say? When you say that a co-engineered shaft is virtually the same, I agree, but only in paint scheme. In order to change the torque or kick point of a shaft, you have to have a completely new "recipe" and make up to create that shaft. More than likely, a variation of materials used for said blueprint to achieve the desired "tweak" as you put it. That in itself puts the "co-engineered" shaft into a name of its own and totally separate of the "after-market" shaft. Is a blue board co-engineered by titleist a blue board... sure, in name only.

Purely speculative on your part, but what do you think a company that doesn't "co-engineer" shafts for club manufacturers, would say on this topic? It's going to be completely contrary to what you stated. I know, because I have spoken to a couple. So, you have two sides with two conflicting statements. Which one is true? Probably neither, the truth lies somewhere in the middle I would assume.

Put an after market Kha'li on a launch monitor against a "co-engineered" Kha'li. Pay attention to the dispersion and spin rates... it tells a story in itself.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by TinCupTampa

Come on Erik, What do you expect Mitsubishi and Grafalloy to say?

Purely speculative on your part, but what do you think a company that doesn't "co-engineer" shafts for club manufacturers, would say on this topic?

It's not speculative. I've talked to shaft companies, both ones that "co-engineer" and ones that don't. The ones that don't are pitching a story too. I've talked to EX employees as well, and I feel they're the ones most likely to be honest about it.

Is there a difference? I said there was. Was it worth paying $200+? For 99.x% of golfers, nope.

[RedFox999]

when they co engineer most of the time the clubmaker like callaway or titleist owns the design and everything about the shaft specs, performance etc. The shaft company will just make the shaft for them under those specs but they are different from say a real blueboard compared to a made for titleist blueboard and the shaft company gets to throw their name on it but use the words "made for ____".

[kevin.chan]

I actually wrote to titliest to ask them the difference for the Kaili 70 and titliest Kali 73 . They pointed to their club fitting site and check the specs . The kick point and torque are different . They said I can trim the titliest kaili 73 tip 1 inch to match the specs if Kaili 70. But how much will they charge ? I dont know . May be no up charge . Here is the other eply from Titliest Website : Ryan Crysler replied to Re: 910 shafts in Golf Clubs. The Titleist Version is slightly heavier with a little more torque. You can compare the specs here: http://www.fittingworks.com/TechnologyProcess/ShaftandGripInformation/ShaftDescriptions.aspx I suspect the Titleist version is much cheaper an can be tipped to perform exactly like the unbranded version. I also wrote to the certified titliest club fitter that fit my driver . According to him , The tip for the Kaili 70 is more stable than the titliest Kaili 73 , produce lower spin rate and medium launch.

[WUTiger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeefJerky

... Stock shafts are garbage. ...

If your shaft costs less than $180...it is a joke. In my opinion, the shaft is more important than the head itself.

First of all, I'd like to know what research backs up your outlandish opening statements. Too bad we can't award troll points.

Second, your shaft-head comment... it depends. For mid to high HDCP players, the head is probably more important. If you have too high a VCOG in the clubhead, and can't get the ball up, you can be in trouble. As for shaft, you basically want one which won't hurt your game.

For low to mid, that's where shaft can be more important - a way to really fine-tune your ballflight.

Stock shafts work, as long as they match your swing. I have about 86 mph clubhead speed with my driver, so low-kick R flex pops the ball up into the air too much. On my Callaway driver and 3W, I picked the Tour model with Fuji E360, a stock shaft which had mid-kick and lo-mid torque. (Heads on both have square face, rather than slightly closed). I hit several different driver models with stock shafts, and the Hyper X Tour came out on top with launch monitor data, and with club feel.

Middle HDCP players - look at the Tour model drivers with R.flex shafts; the stock shafts for these offer some variety w/o doubling the price in upgrade.

(Edit = grammar)