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Gerald

Driver Loft vs. Distance

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I switched from 9.5 to 10.5 and back again to a lower loft, and yet back again to a higher loft and maybe now have to go back to a lower loft since my drives go like upto 80' - 90' high.

On the other hand watching the Pro's, they all have the drives climbing up very high.

My driver SS is about 100-105 Mph. and distance is about 250 yds average ...... as all I am looking for 10-15 yds extra (still in the fairway) .......

I wonder what the influence of driver loft is to the carry distance, if there is actually a difference.

Or has distance more to do with factors like kickpoint, swingspeed, smashfactor and the ball used.

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Combination driver's loft / shaft / SS / Attack Angle / Balls

I think shafts is more important of the above.

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Loft is the most important variable. For a comprehensive treatment, see the article linked below.

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/launchOptimize.php

(Semi-off topic: I played with two competitive + handicappers a week ago and was amazed at how incredibly high they both hit the ball off the tee. Absolutely towering shots. My mouth was hanging open.)

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Yep I have seen that article before and it is interesting as long as you have a good monitor and a guy operating it tlling you what he sees...... but Monitors are seldom over here and most advise is based on personal prefs of the sales clerk than from measurements, so the few shops around here having a monitor almost know nothing about translating the figures to shafts etc.

How is ss translated in to ball speed, I know it is roughly multiplied by 1.5 max. for a professional, but what will it be likely to be for the let's single hc capper

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Originally Posted by Gerald

I switched from 9.5 to 10.5 and back again to a lower loft, and yet back again to a higher loft and maybe now have to go back to a lower loft since my drives go like upto 80' - 90' high.

On the other hand watching the Pro's, they all have the drives climbing up very high.

My driver SS is about 100-105 Mph. and distance is about 250 yds average ...... as all I am looking for 10-15 yds extra (still in the fairway) .......

I wonder what the influence of driver loft is to the carry distance, if there is actually a difference.

Or has distance more to do with factors like kickpoint, swingspeed, smashfactor and the ball used.



Loft affects launch angle so yes it does influence distance assuming everything else is held constant.  With a 105 mph ss you should be carrying the ball 250ish given the correct set-up which would mean correct loft and shaft.  A knowleagable sales person or club maker can take that nice solid SS and match you to some equipment so that you optimize launch angle, backspin numbers, and ball speed to get you there.

One thing that I found is that since I did this my ball flight is higher, but more penetrating.  Playing with better players, you see this as the desired ball flight for most playing conditions.  In the past a high ball flight meant ballooning, but with the modern shaft that lowers driver spin rate it means more carry and overall distance.

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Ball speed vs swing speed is a result of different things, so you can't assume the SS using only the ball speed.

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My simple response is to try a 9.5 with a stiff shaft.  Since your young and probably have pretty good swing speed this should fit you.  The titleist generally set a little bit open at address so if you want to close it down try a 10.5 which would deloft the club.  If you don't want to pay for a fitting ( i know some can be in the $100-200 range) just use the simulator.  I have never been fitted but I feel like I  have the proper driver and shaft.

Being young like you (21) I don't have the money to spend on a custom fitting and expensive shaft.  My carry is 260-275 with roll in the summer most of them are right under 300 with 20% over 300yds.

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Gerald is in his 50s if I remember right and seems to have plenty of cash, although being Dutch he obviously hates to spend any of it.

(Geen belediging bedoeld, mijn vriend.)

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Quote:
I switched from 9.5 to 10.5 and back again to a lower loft, and yet back again to a higher loft and maybe now have to go back to a lower loft since my drives go like upto 80' - 90' high.

On the other hand watching the Pro's, they all have the drives climbing up very high.

My driver SS is about 100-105 Mph. and distance is about 250 yds average ...... as all I am looking for 10-15 yds extra (still in the fairway) .......

I wonder what the influence of driver loft is to the carry distance, if there is actually a difference.

Or has distance more to do with factors like kickpoint, swingspeed, smashfactor and the ball used

Loft of the club has little to do with how high the ball goes. 1 degree wont matter much. Spin is more important factor.

Kickpoint determins alot how high the ball goes up, since that will deloft or increase loft, depending on the shaft.

Also what ball are you playing? That can have a huge effect. If there fitting you, you might not be using your ball.

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Originally Posted by saevel25

Loft of the club has little to do with how high the ball goes.

Kickpoint determins alot how high the ball goes up, since that will deloft or increase loft.

You have this backwards. Yes, the bowing of the shaft can affect the dynamic loft at impact, but it is a limited effect. The shaft cannot physically bend forward more than the distance between the center of gravity of the club head and the center of the hosel. This could add, maybe, a degree or so of true loft -- which is obviously rather less than you get from simply swapping out, say, an 8 degree head for a 12 degree one.

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Originally Posted by Stretch

Gerald is in his 50s if I remember right and seems to have plenty of cash, although being Dutch he obviously hates to spend any of it.

(Geen belediging bedoeld, mijn vriend.)


Yep 52,,,, but I play like a teenager ........ but I don't know the smell of cash actually, but you are right only the Scots have the name being very careful with spending money, the Dutch might well be more carefully.......

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Originally Posted by saevel25

Loft of the club has little to do with how high the ball goes. 1 degree wont matter much. Spin is more important factor.

Kickpoint determins alot how high the ball goes up, since that will deloft or increase loft, depending on the shaft.

Also what ball are you playing? That can have a huge effect. If there fitting you, you might not be using your ball.

Pro V1x mostly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

You have this backwards. Yes, the bowing of the shaft can affect the dynamic loft at impact, but it is a limited effect. The shaft cannot physically bend forward more than the distance between the center of gravity of the club head and the center of the hosel. This could add, maybe, a degree or so of true loft -- which is obviously rather less than you get from simply swapping out, say, an 8 degree head for a 12 degree one.

Currently 10.5 degrees, but last year had also a 909 9.5 degrees , but I don't notice a lot difference, allthough now that I have changed to more in the upswing some are really going highhhhh.


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Well your playing a lower spin ball for the driver, so it shouldn't be because of the spine, especially if your hitting upon the ball or with little negative AoA. It might just be your use to a lower ball flight, is it still getting good distance, or is the height costing you yards?

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Hmmm .......

Originally Posted by saevel25

Well your playing a lower spin ball for the driver, so it shouldn't be because of the spine, especially if your hitting upon the ball or with little negative AoA. It might just be your use to a lower ball flight, is it still getting good distance, or is the height costing you yards?


I played with a similar capper in a tournament last weekend, his drives had more draw, mine were baby draw or straight, he has a bit longer than me on avarage, but I hit more fairways 11 out of 14 (not bad at all), he was a bit lower, mine were higher, with a tailwind my drives were longer, with a headwind his drives were longer.......

So when I have a tailwind or no wind, I would say I have nothing against the High trajectory ...... they really go and land in the fairway not bouncing off a lot, but there is also no big difference between carry and carry+roll ........ with a head wind it is a nightmare ofcourse, less distance and no roll .......

So controlling the height might become vital for me.

I feel driving is always a compromise between backspin and side spin, being in the fairway is important in Europe as on most courses the is no 1st cut...... it is fairway or rough mostly .......

All we allways want is hitting 25 yds extra and still stay in the fairway, 25 yds extra and off brings nothing ...... so ..... it is so difficult, would I loose direction by less loft, do I need a stiffer shaft, do I need the same shaft with a higher kickpoint, do I need less loft, etc........ do I need to adjust teeing up height (at the moment middle of the ball - top of the driver)........ etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

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You do need to stop overthinking everything.

Here is a chart from Tom Wishon's research that suggests you are pretty much in the ballpark already for a 105mph swing speed, assuming a slightly upward hit.

chart1.jpg

By the way, I did a little more digging on the question of shaft bend and its effect on dynamic loft at impact and the rule of thumb is that shaft contribution will vary between 0 degrees and 2 degrees, depending on swing speed and (most critically) wrist cock release point. Most golfers with average-to-good technique are going to be looking at about 1 degree.

Anyway, just for comparison purposes, I was fitted using the Wishon system above (together with an additional step that factored in descent angle as well to try and maximize carry + rollout) and ended up with an 11 degree driver head. My SS was 100mph and my measured AoA was -1 degree.

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Yepppp you're right about that ....... golfers think too much !!!

Must be good now at around 10 degrees, maybe I will try a stiffer shaft or a shaft with a higher kickpoint to get more control of height.

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The quickest and cheapest way to experiment in that direction would be to take your 10.5 degree driver to the shop and ask them to trim 1/2 an inch off the tip of your current shaft. This will make it play slightly stiffer overall and increase the stiffness of the tip section relative to the rest of the shaft. Both effects should tend to lower your ball flight.
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Maybe cheapest, but not the best option if you ever want to sell it if it din't work........

Today I went to a Titleist Fitting Center with a monitor bc all the variables made it a big lotery to try this or that and end up with the next driver for the garage.

Took about 100 balls to find out the best loft, launchangle, ballspeed, etc. and shaft options and ended up with u 909 D3 with Aldila DVS 60-S.

Could also have gone for the new 910 D3, but had no need to spend about $200 extra for a hosel, that offered me so little extra.

Went to the range afterwards and sofar it looks to be a great choice, lower launch, but not too low and somehow I don't know why it looks as if the ball has a somewhat extended flight even with the softer range balls ......

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