Questions on Fairways Hit and GIR

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

Because a fairway hit doesn't matter if you make bogey, and a fairway missed doesn't matter if you make par. Same for GIR.

GIR is a trash stat anyway. It just measures how often your next shot after your approach is a putt, not how close you got with that approach. But that's another thread.

GIR is a trash stat???  That's nuts.  You must be blowing smoke from another thread.

If I could hit every green in regulation, I'd be close to a scratch golfer instead of a 13 handicap.  Guaranteed.  That 12.8 index that I'm currently brandishing comes from spending far too much of each round trying to scramble for pars, and failing about 60% of the time.  I typically have one three-putt for each 3-4 rounds, and those only come on a very few of my longest, toughest putts.  If my game is sufficiently under control that I'm hitting 75% GIR, I'm not going to be leaving a lot of that type of putt.  Read the post above yours.  That is a very accurate assessment of how GIR can relate to handicap.

[Zeph]

GIR is perhaps the most important stat there is. It tells us how many times you were able to get on the green in one, two or three shots. In many events, if you hit the GIR, chances are good you also hit the fairway, or at least didn't miss it too bad. It also tells us you didn't suffer any penalty shots. The green is big of course, you can still be far away from the cup, but if you got a high GIR stat, I'd bet a lot of the shots are also in good range. Hitting the green require distance control and shot cone control, two skills that makes hitting it close a lot easier.

[sean_miller]

I vote for "score" the most important stat. The players with the lowest scoring averages in the big events typically are the best players.

[Chief Broom]

Obviously score is the most important stat, but where keeping other stats is useful is in understanding why you shot the that particular score.  Statistics alone can be deceiving.  Recently I played a round where I hit 12 GIR (a personal best), but I only shot an 84.  Likewise I've shot lower scores while hitting less greens.  The examination of your stats don't insure you'll shoot lower scores but they can help to direct your attention to areas of your game that you would benefit by placing more focus upon.  I enjoy maintaining stats simply as another way of enjoying the game.  They allow me to know on any particular round where my strenghts were and where my game was lacking.  I happen to be primarily an inconsistant golfer and on any given round any aspect of my game can let me down or be a strenght.  Overall though I do see trends and for me as I improve (or play poorly) GIR seems to be the best overall indicator.  To hit a green you've got to do a couple of things right and likewise to hit a lot of greens over the course of a round you've got to maintain that overall higher level of performance.  Obviously though GIR alone isn't the entire story as evidenced by my highest number of greens hit in a round not being close to my all time best score (75).

[Harmonious]

It's important to remember that all of these stats are interrelated.  For example, in general, if you hit more fairways, you will hit more greens.  But if you hit more greens, in general, you will have more putts.  And, if you sink every putt under 10', your up and down percentage will be artificially high.  Conversely, if you miss every putt, your up and down percentage will be artificially low.

All these stats work together over the long haul, and are really only useful over the long haul.  In the course of a single round, you may have a great putting day that overcomes other shortcomings. But those things tend to cancel each other out after 10 rounds or so.  And over a full year, you can really start to tell what parts of your game are solid, and what needs work.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

It's important to remember that all of these stats are interrelated.  For example, in general, if you hit more fairways, you will hit more greens.  But if you hit more greens, in general, you will have more putts.  And, if you sink every putt under 10', your up and down percentage will be artificially high.  Conversely, if you miss every putt, your up and down percentage will be artificially low.

All these stats work together over the long haul, and are really only useful over the long haul.  In the course of a single round, you may have a great putting day that overcomes other shortcomings. But those things tend to cancel each other out after 10 rounds or so.  And over a full year, you can really start to tell what parts of your game are solid, and what needs work.

I was going to post the same thing, but focused on fairways hit and GIR.  Especially for amateurs, the up-thread sentiment that fairways hit is not useful is kind of right.  However, that's only true if you look at it alone.  Combine it with GIR and you can learn something in many (but not all) cases.

Sure, for one hole, if you hit the GIR in some sense it doesn't matter that you missed the fairway.  Likewise if you 1- or 0-putt for par, it doesn't matter that you missed the GIR.  But that's only for one hole, and for a single hole, the only number that matters is your score.  Statistics are about looking for trends over many holes.  So if you miss the GIR and still make par, you made a mistake and got lucky.  When analyzing your long game, that's a fluctuation that you don't want polluting the picture.

If you're hitting fairways but not GIRs (and you're playing a course whose length fits your game), you probably need to work on your approach shots to improve.  That's an easy case to interpret.  In other cases, looking to see if GIRs tend to follow hit fairways can give you a hint that hitting that fairway is going to improve your score.

However, I think one can also pick better stats than the fairways hit and GIR depending on your skill.  I tend to track stats by the book, since I presume some day I'll be better, and I want to maintain continuity.  However, for bogey or higher golfers, I think "playable drive" and "near GIR" are probably at least as useful, and probably more useful since they're more likely to contain actual information to differentiate your performance.  For the pros, I think at least part of the reason for the standard stats is their more-or-less unambiguous definition.  The rest of us probably don't need that feature.

[i-Guy]

One thing that is definetly clear (or unclear) about all this is that there are no hard core rules to be followed as you can track whatever you want...however you want...if it helps your game improve or not (like one poster said becuase it was fun to track stats)...at the end of the day your handciap has nothing directly to do with these stats because you do not enter them in the GHIN system and they are not a part of your handicap calculation...but it sure is interesting hearing everyone's opinion on stats...

[Gioguy21]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I vote for "score" the most important stat. The players with the lowest scoring averages in the big events typically are the best players.

can i say duh? lol to have a decent score...you have to be doing at least moderately well in both fairways and greens hit. can't say i've seen stats where a guy who shot in the 60's had no more than 3 greens hit. just sayin. just about everyone wants to be rich, but the process to get rich is what we strive to find out...everyone knows that people that have money live easier lives financially(note, i did not say happier). "comon man"

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Gioguy21

can i say duh? lol to have a decent score...you have to be doing at least moderately well in both fairways and greens hit. can't say i've seen stats where a guy who shot in the 60's had no more than 3 greens hit. just sayin. just about everyone wants to be rich, but the process to get rich is what we strive to find out...everyone knows that people that have money live easier lives financially(note, i did not say happier). "comon man"

You sure can. Score, putts, and penalty strokes is all I need to track, with the most important stat being score. I figured out last season that when I focus on keeping the ball in play off the tee, and below the hole on the green, decent scores will follow. If you enjoy writing down extra numbers and making charts, fill your boots.

[JayMc]

I absolutely agree.

Originally Posted by Zeph

GIR is perhaps the most important stat there is. It tells us how many times you were able to get on the green in one, two or three shots. In many events, if you hit the GIR, chances are good you also hit the fairway, or at least didn't miss it too bad. It also tells us you didn't suffer any penalty shots. The green is big of course, you can still be far away from the cup, but if you got a high GIR stat, I'd bet a lot of the shots are also in good range. Hitting the green require distance control and shot cone control, two skills that makes hitting it close a lot easier.

[i-Guy]

Originally Posted by Zeph

GIR is perhaps the most important stat there is. It tells us how many times you were able to get on the green in one, two or three shots. In many events, if you hit the GIR, chances are good you also hit the fairway, or at least didn't miss it too bad. It also tells us you didn't suffer any penalty shots. The green is big of course, you can still be far away from the cup, but if you got a high GIR stat, I'd bet a lot of the shots are also in good range. Hitting the green require distance control and shot cone control, two skills that makes hitting it close a lot easier.

I agree to a large extent but having a great short game (chipping and putting) is a close second and to your point...I would not mind having 36 putts every round if I had 18 GIR's every round = "Even Par"

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by i-Guy

I agree to a large extent but having a great short game (chipping and putting) is a close second and to your point...I would not mind having 36 putts every round if I had 18 GIR's every round = "Even Par"

I guarantee you would be disappointed to hit 18 greens and not make at least a couple birdies. Plan for a 3-putt or two to cancel those out though.

Anyway, I do agree that a higher GIR percentage is linked to good scoring and a low index. It's a no-brainer. But It's still possible to shoot low scores with a lower GIR % if your misses are in the right place. Some courses penalize a GIR in the wrong part of the green more than a missed green that leaves the ball below the hole in a good chipping area. Other courses penalize anything that misses the green. Either way you need to have some birdie opportunities and some short par putts to score well.

[i-Guy]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I guarantee you would be disappointed to hit 18 greens and not make at least a couple birdies. Plan for a 3-putt or two to cancel those out though.

Too funny!  Oh I would hope to make at least a couple of birdies if I were to hit 18 GIR's...not even going to address 3 putts (not in my dictionary...LOL) but all I was trying to say is that I would take an average of 36 putts (which would not look very good to some single digit handicaps) as long as I hit 18 greens...then I would be shooting even par (doing the math) and isn't there some kind of stat out there about what percentage of amateurs ever shoot even par in thier lifetime...1% or less???

[Victor Williams]

As far as stats are concerned, how do would the PGA track my FIR if I drive the green on a short par 4?

[Lihu]

As far as stats are concerned, how do would the PGA track my FIR if I drive the green on a short par 4?

Regulation is at or less than par minus 2 for putts, so it would be a GIR.

I over drove one short par 4 last month and only use a 3W at this point on that hole. I still almost drove it except I landed the bunker, but that tee shot helped win the hole for me.

[Victor Williams]

I was asking if the PGA would consider a fairway hit or missed if a Tour player drives the green on a par 4. I would assume missed, but I'm curious if anyone knows for sure.

[Lihu]

I was asking if the PGA would consider a fairway hit or missed if a Tour player drives the green on a par 4. I would assume missed, but I'm curious if anyone knows for sure.

This is probably just one reason why "fairways" is a useless statistic. . .

[Abu3baid]

I was asking if the PGA would consider a fairway hit or missed if a Tour player drives the green on a par 4. I would assume missed, but I'm curious if anyone knows for sure.

I don't know, but in willing to guess anyway. It sounds silly to me to count it as a fairway missed.. Another question is if the pro drives the green and it rolls into the back of it and into the rough? If I say it's not a FIR then is the only criterion is that it stayed on the green?? I say yes, if it stays on the green it's a FIR otherwise it is not and hopefully they chop it back for a GIR.