The Speed Freak

[jmanbooyaa]

Sorry, I have to chime in again. Slow play kills me when the following takes place.

1. A group of 4 usually friends(from what I have  observed) drinking beers(not usually a bad thing) b.s. with each other very loudly usually and take forever to tee off

2. Same group hits multiple tee shots(poor shots but sadly usually to there skill level)

3. Play from the back tees even though they only hit a few feet or at best crush a slice

4. Same crappy group after god knows how many shots to get on the green begin to study the greens for about 3-5 minutes only to putt no where near the hole(I call them the couch golfers, they have seen the pros do this and think they must also).

To me this is not right and in poor spirits. Sadly here on LI it is usually a young group of guys who are decked out to the nines in the latest clothes and ALWAYS has the guy in the group who has some kind of fashionable(hey look at me) hat on non baseball style. I really don't like that I just wrote about younger players but in my personal short lived so far golf outings this is who usually are the ones holding up everyone. Sorry if this offends anyone, I am 33 so I am a bit older than the types I am referring. I am not a good golfer and am learning the proper ways to conduct myself on the course and adhere to them. Its just really frustrating as I know what to expect this Saturday. I also am not a fan of the player who feels the need to instruct as they play with a friend, girlfriend, wife ,etc. Or anyone who is not actually happy to be out playing golf.

[Aquaguru]

Last Sunday me and two buddies had a 7:15 tee time.  All three of us walk and take our time on the greens and reading yardages.  We still finished at 10:45 (3.5 hours).  The key to enjoying a quick round of golf is to be thinking of you next shot as you are approaching it.  Check the wind as you are walking towards your ball.  I have a gps so I shot out yardages to my partners estimating if they are on the other side of the fairway.  On the greens we all stand behind our putts and read them as the other putts.  This doesn't bother us at all.  I hate the groups that we get stuck behind that feel like the only person that is allowed on the green is the one who is putting, then take turns reading and putting.  We never feel like we are bothering each other and enjoy the pace.  None of us feel rushed or frantic.  We do play with etiquette as well. Replacing divots, repairing greens (most of the time more than just ours), honors on the tee and approach.

I don't understand how a round can take 5 hours I just can't.  Even if you have bad golfers that shouldn't slow play down that much.  One of the guys in our group shoots in the 90's most of the time and he doesn't slow us down at all.

[NEOHMark]

I'm not a speed freak, but I do hate NEEDLESS slow play tactics.

There is no need for the entire group to watch your shot, and THEN start figuring out what club they are going to hit.  In last week's league play, another group member and I were about the same distance away and I got ready and hit first.  No rushing, normal pre-shot routine, etc.  After I hit, I look over and this member is then JUST NOW starting to look at his lie, and thinking about what club to hit.  WTF were you doing while I went through my pre-shot routine and shot?  I didn't say anything, but that's needlessly slow play.

Same for around the greens.  Most of the time, other players in the group can be lining up and assessing their putts while the person away putts.  Obviously you don't want to interfere with the person playing their shot, but there's no reason the rest of the group has to be entirely spectators at that point.  They can usually be doing something to prepare for their putt.

It's all about efficiency  - not about rushing and racing through a round.  Little things add up to a lot of time wasted needlessly.  If I'm walking, I'll approach the green at an angle that allows me to study the green and prospective line as I'm walking up to it - saves maybe thirty seconds of just MY preparations on the green.  Times four, that's a couple minutes per hole.  Over 18 holes, thats a half hour.

If I'm riding and my riding partner is away.  Instead of sitting in the cart and watching him play, I'll hop out and walk to my ball, if it's safely across the fairway and out of other players' lines - usually it is.  I can look at my lie, visualize the shot I want to make, maybe even get a cursory gauge on yardage and start thinking of club selection options, fr when my riding partner brings the cart over.  There's absolutely no reason for me to sit my ass in the cart and watch another guy(s) hit.  I could.  But I prefer to stay inside my own game and getting a few seconds to myself as I gather my situation really helps.  I'm not rushing or racing, but I am being efficient.  It saves time but, more importantly, it helps me focus.

And for God's sake, if there is a group waiting in the fairway behind us ready to make their approach shots?  I get REAL nervous about the group member who thinks it's a great time to write down our scores, or have a gulp of Gatorade,  while we're still just off the green. It's not only rude, but it's dangerous if they think our being 10 feet off the green is sufficiently clear for them to hit.  I'd rather do that stuff on the next tee box - safely away from the target zone.  Again, that's not rushing or racing, that's just common sense, common courtesy, and helps speed up play by being more efficient with the time you do have.

And yes - 4-5 hours is entirely too long to play 18 holes.  Five hours is almost 17 minutes a hole - barely more than 3 holes an hour.  Crazy slow.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Aquaguru

Last Sunday me and two buddies had a 7:15 tee time.  All three of us walk and take our time on the greens and reading yardages.  We still finished at 10:45 (3.5 hours).  The key to enjoying a quick round of golf is to be thinking of you next shot as you are approaching it.  Check the wind as you are walking towards your ball.  I have a gps so I shot out yardages to my partners estimating if they are on the other side of the fairway.  On the greens we all stand behind our putts and read them as the other putts.  This doesn't bother us at all.  I hate the groups that we get stuck behind that feel like the only person that is allowed on the green is the one who is putting, then take turns reading and putting.  We never feel like we are bothering each other and enjoy the pace.  None of us feel rushed or frantic.  We do play with etiquette as well. Replacing divots, repairing greens (most of the time more than just ours), honors on the tee and approach.

I don't understand how a round can take 5 hours I just can't.  Even if you have bad golfers that shouldn't slow play down that much.  One of the guys in our group shoots in the 90's most of the time and he doesn't slow us down at all.

That sounds like a good way to play. If I was a caddy for a slow player I'd be fired on day 1.

Slow Dude: "What do I need from here?"

Me: "Here's your 8-iron."

Dude: "But I'm in the rough 230 yards out and I can reach the green?"

Me: "Oh, you can reach the green with this too - on your next shot."

Dude: Okay we're on the green 25 feet away for _____ so I need to see this from both sides, pace it off, plumb bob, then take a few practice swing because I can make this and it deserves my utmost attention."

Me: "You could just as easily make it by fluke with your eyes closed-  just get it close to the hole. Don't worry about missing it "on the pro side" or coming up short. Just get it close, tap it in, and let's move on."

Fired!!!

[Fourputt]

I have a friend who will bitch about any delay, and he usually puts the blame on the group in front of us, regardless of where the actual problem is.  I have to calm him down and point out that the problem lies out farther than the guys just ahead.   Often when we get to the 5th tee, where we can see most of the next 4 holes,  I can finally convince him that the problem is much farther ahead.  Sometimes it's beyond those 4 holes, and sometimes the problem is just in his mind.  It isn't unusual that we are actually ahead of schedule, and just just our own fast pace that makes it feel like we are waiting excessively.

[turtleback]

I grew up playing NYC courses (primarily Douglaston Park) so I am well acquainted with the 6 hour round.

But now where I live it is not too hard to find times to play when it is relatively empty so for me an average time walking is about 3-1/2 hours and an average time riding is about 3 hours.  And playing at that speed seems like a very relaxed pace.  It is all a matter of being ready when it is your turn.  Too often I see groups where seemingly no one gives a thought to their shot until it is their turn.  I'm picking my shot and club as I walk to my ball and unless the lie is strange my mind is pretty well made up before the cart stops rolling.  And as I walk onto the green I am already processing the macro layout.  Once i have fulfilled any pin duties I stand behind my ball (so long as I am not in another player's way) and read my putt while others are putting.  Then when it is my turn, a quick practice stroke and I knock the ball into the hole.  Or not.

Life is good.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEOHMark

I'm not a speed freak, but I do hate NEEDLESS slow play tactics.

There is no need for the entire group to watch your shot, and THEN start figuring out what club they are going to hit.  In last week's league play, another group member and I were about the same distance away and I got ready and hit first.  No rushing, normal pre-shot routine, etc.  After I hit, I look over and this member is then JUST NOW starting to look at his lie, and thinking about what club to hit.  WTF were you doing while I went through my pre-shot routine and shot?  I didn't say anything, but that's needlessly slow play.

Same for around the greens.  Most of the time, other players in the group can be lining up and assessing their putts while the person away putts.  Obviously you don't want to interfere with the person playing their shot, but there's no reason the rest of the group has to be entirely spectators at that point.  They can usually be doing something to prepare for their putt.

It's all about efficiency  - not about rushing and racing through a round.  Little things add up to a lot of time wasted needlessly.  If I'm walking, I'll approach the green at an angle that allows me to study the green and prospective line as I'm walking up to it - saves maybe thirty seconds of just MY preparations on the green.  Times four, that's a couple minutes per hole.  Over 18 holes, thats a half hour.

If I'm riding and my riding partner is away.  Instead of sitting in the cart and watching him play, I'll hop out and walk to my ball, if it's safely across the fairway and out of other players' lines - usually it is.  I can look at my lie, visualize the shot I want to make, maybe even get a cursory gauge on yardage and start thinking of club selection options, fr when my riding partner brings the cart over.  There's absolutely no reason for me to sit my ass in the cart and watch another guy(s) hit.  I could.  But I prefer to stay inside my own game and getting a few seconds to myself as I gather my situation really helps.  I'm not rushing or racing, but I am being efficient.  It saves time but, more importantly, it helps me focus.

And for God's sake, if there is a group waiting in the fairway behind us ready to make their approach shots?  I get REAL nervous about the group member who thinks it's a great time to write down our scores, or have a gulp of Gatorade,  while we're still just off the green. It's not only rude, but it's dangerous if they think our being 10 feet off the green is sufficiently clear for them to hit.  I'd rather do that stuff on the next tee box - safely away from the target zone.  Again, that's not rushing or racing, that's just common sense, common courtesy, and helps speed up play by being more efficient with the time you do have.

And yes - 4-5 hours is entirely too long to play 18 holes.  Five hours is almost 17 minutes a hole - barely more than 3 holes an hour.  Crazy slow.

This should be required reading for every player before he or she ever sets foot on a golf course.  Each golfer should have to sign an affidavit swearing to uphold these principles.  If everyone did that, we wouldn't have to worry about the "speed freaks" that the OP posted about because that would be every one of us.

I'm not at all certain that the OP would ever get on board with that though.

Quote:

...for me an average time walking is about 3-1/2 hours and an average time riding is about 3 hours.  And playing at that speed seems like a very relaxed pace.

I can't believe that this would be a relaxed pace for a full fourball, playing by the rules.  I play with a lot of fast golfers, and it still takes 3.5 hours for a comfortable 18 holes.  We occasionally play as a group of 5 (everyone riding - 3 carts) and still finish in about 4 hours if we aren't held up by smaller groups.  Anything faster would qualify as "speed golf" and would not be what I consider relaxing.

[AmazingWhacker]

I am a big-time speedfreak, lol.  I am the guy who is more concerned with the groups ahead than his own group.  I don't really care that much if other groups are holding us up but I will not be a party to holding up the groups behind me.   To me, that is one the rudest, most inconsiderate things you can do on a golf course.  I have played with lots of people who dont worry about it for various reasons - none of them are valid.

1.  We payed the same as everybody else so we should take our time and enjoy ourselves.

NO - you paid the same as everybody else so you have no special right to hold people up.

2.  Pros take tons of time - lots more than us

OK - pros hit 70-75 shots a round.  This is like number 55 for you on this side!

3.  I like to RELAX and enjoy my round

How is pissing everybody off enjoyable to you?

Bottom line . . if there's a hole open ahead of you and groups pressing from behind then you are a jerk.  Simple as that.

[jwrussell]

Originally Posted by Aquaguru

Even if you have bad golfers that shouldn't slow play down that much.  One of the guys in our group shoots in the 90's most of the time and he doesn't slow us down at all.

Heh.  You think a "bad golfer" shoots in the 90's.  That's cute. ;)

*goes and hides in the corner with his regular 120-ish scores*

[AmazingWhacker]

Originally Posted by jwrussell

Heh.  You think a "bad golfer" shoots in the 90's.  That's cute. ;)

*goes and hides in the corner with his regular 120-ish scores*

True - 90 is actually quite good by most people's standards.  However, there is still no excuse for slow play.  If you are a hundred shooter (as I am) then you need to be honest with yourself about it.  Save the practice for the range and pick the friggin ball up if you're still struggling to hit the green on shot 7!

[jwrussell]

Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker

True - 90 is actually quite good by most people's standards.  However, there is still no excuse for slow play.  If you are a hundred shooter (as I am) then you need to be honest with yourself about it.  Save the practice for the range and pick the friggin ball up if you're still struggling to hit the green on shot 7!

No doubt!  I have to say, it amazes me that I can play my 114-130 strokes (extreme spread for my rounds this year) without managing to slow things down to a crawl, but you end up with guys who are obviously much better who are log jams simply because they refuse to be "on the ball", forgive the pun.

[golf4fun12]

I play with a speed freak every week. the bad thing is I play in the same group as the speed freak, with a slow freak. so complete opposite. one wants to play extremely fast. I'm talking a 3 hour round while the other has all the time in the world. they actually got into a fight, not punching, but argued for a good 10 minutes about the speed freak trying to hurry the slow freak. it was not fun since I was caught in the middle. I still play in the same group every week. lol. the speed freak even tells me that he is impatient. I mean, seriously....half a hole behind and we are slow. there will be 10 groups ahead of us and he wants all 10 to speed it up. calls the pro shop to complain about slow play even though we made the turn in a hour and 45 minutes. we usually finish in less than 4 hours for a round. but, if we hit 4 hours or even 4 hours and 15 minutes.....he freaks out saying how slow it was today. I hate it, but I keep my mouth shout.

[saevel25]

I never played with someone who wanted to rush between shots. I have played with someone who doesn't take practice swings, who can pick his club just with a glace, and if you blink hes moving to his next shot. But he's never complaining about slow play, or rushing up on someone. That is rude. Golf is a diverse game, unless someone is epically slow, stop bitching and enjoy the nice day

[meenman]

Originally Posted by jwrussell

Heh.  You think a "bad golfer" shoots in the 90's.  That's cute. ;)

*goes and hides in the corner with his regular 120-ish scores*

I am sure that you can play a fast round even shooting your scores. There has to be a few duffs in there so its only a couple of steps to hit again.

I've played in foursomes where no one broke 100 and i dont think we even saw the four hour mark.

Higher handicappers that want to get better are very conscious of their pace of play.

[zeg]

Some good posts in this thread.

I had a good time out yesterday in a lot of ways, including pace of play.  Walking solo, got 9 holes in about 1:45, and I was keeping with the overall pace (mostly pairs in carts playing).  Let one group through on a hole when I had to take a few minutes to find a drive in long rough in the shade, but it was sort of a coin toss as to whether that was necessary since I kept up the rest of the way through anyway.

My principle to playing at the appropriate speed is, like above, not to rush, but to be efficient.  That means you pick how to invest your time.  Is spending an extra minute reading a 45 foot putt really going to make a difference?  If not, save that and use it to spend a little longer on a tricky 10-footer that you actually have a real chance to make.  Waffling over club choice is probably moot when you'll probably hit + or - a club depending on the wind and the unfamiliar footing, lie, and elevation change.  Choose quickly and go with it, you probably have a 50/50 chance of wishing you'd chosen the other option afterwards.

Basically, time spent that is likely to improve the outcome of the decision is an investment, otherwise it's wasted.  To an extent, the pros can better justify playing a bit slower when necessary because they've got both the experience to know when they need to think something through and the ability to hit the shot / line they choose.  For most of us, finding the perfect line is not necessary since we're unlikely to hit it anyway, so just being close is "good enough."  We'd be better off saving that time so we can spend it on something that will actually improve our score---like being a few minutes ahead of pace when we take 3 minutes to find a wayward tee shot and avoid stroke-and-distance.

[ejimsmith]

Originally Posted by meenman

I dont play with any but have seen a few.

At my home course, if you get the first tee time on the weekend, you are told by the starter to not finish your 9 in less than 2 hours. (we have double tee times on the weekends and he doesnt want 4 groups waiting at 1+10 at the turn)

Last time we had that tee time, we went as slow as we could and were still on a 90 minute pace. The twosome behind us hit into us twice and then came screaming that we needed to let them play through since we were holding up the whole course. We were nice and let them go, I kindly reminded them to enjoy their 45 minute wait at the turn.

Of course at the turn we waited 1/2 hour behind them as they had to wait for the 3 groups to go in front of them.

Morning tee times are a guaranteed 3:50-4:10 round, but certain guys seem to get amnesia every week.

i play at a course with this problem too.  they have 3 9 hole courses, so you play 2 to make up your 18.  if you play too quick, you'll waiting for the end of the ones they let start on the other 2 courses.  we used to complain that they let the "back 9" people go on too late, but with the economy as it is now, there's not much you can do to stop them from taking peoples money and letting them play, all cause we were "too fast".   you can still finish the round in under 4:30, which i think is pretty good for a saturday morning.

with that being said though, i quit playing my home course on the weekend cause they start nothing but 5-somes, and also run the back-9 fairly late.  i can't understand how you can be the second group out and still take 5:30 to finish.

[Sai-Jin]

Just got back playing today with a friend... finished in around 3 hours and 14 min ish.

And we were stuck behind a slow 2-some for a few rounds...

I think that if you play well, you just are faster than the normal people.

[pueblo]

There's such an emphasis on speed in our society. Perhaps when I was younger that was my mindset but now I play to enjoy my friends and Mother Nature. I do NOT play on the weekends because it's so very crowded. If you're limited to playing only on the weekends time is critical with family, errands, children's activities, meetings etc to attend to. I shoot in the 80s but I enjoy the time whether my score is 84 or 99. Attitude is very important when times don't go our way. I used to have road rage on the golf course now I'm glad just to be on a course.