The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Shorty]

Dan has based himself in the wrong place with the wrong weather and doesn't have enough money to get the support/ club and coach he needed to do it. I would bet he would likely be scratch/ +HCP by now if he had that.

It's not about money. It's about an absence of physical coordination and athletic ability.

Have you seen his videos?

[natureboy]

Maybe one day, there will be accurate ways to measure the range of potential you have for golf and that will help steer some people from a pursuit that they cannot excel in because of their physical abilities.

This made me think of the movie Gattaca. It is hard to accurately measure the full dimensions of individual human potential.

Contrarily, "The race is not always to the swiftest, nor the battle to the strongest...but that's the way to bet."

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="nevets88" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3492#post_1202419"]   [LIST] [*] Maybe one day, there will be accurate ways to measure the range of potential you have for golf and that will help steer some people from a pursuit that they cannot excel in because of their physical abilities. [/LIST] [/QUOTE] This made me think of the movie Gattaca. It is hard to accurately measure the full dimensions of individual human potential.

But without the dystopian sterile hyper hierarchical society. :-)

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

Maybe one day, there will be accurate ways to measure the range of potential you have for golf and that will help steer some people from a pursuit that they cannot excel in because of their physical abilities.

This made me think of the movie Gattaca. It is hard to accurately measure the full dimensions of individual human potential.

Contrarily, "The race is not always to the swiftest, nor the battle to the strongest...but that's the way to bet."

That and some people who have lots of natural talent in something might not even like it.

[Nosevi]

[QUOTE name="ChrisWev" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3492#post_1202412"]   Dan has based himself in the wrong place with the wrong weather and doesn't have enough money to get the support/ club and coach he needed to do it. I would bet he would likely be scratch/ +HCP by now if he had that. [/QUOTE] It's not about money. It's about an absence of physical coordination and athletic ability. Have you seen his videos?

I don't actually think weather comes into it that much either - there's plenty you can do even if you can't actually be on a course. You could argue a country like Sweden which is frozen solid for 5 or so months of the year would be an unlikely place to produce and good golfers but they seem to manage ok.

[nevets88]

[quote name="Shorty" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3510#post_1202676"][QUOTE name="ChrisWev" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3492#post_1202412"]   Dan has based himself in the wrong place with the wrong weather and doesn't have enough money to get the support/ club and coach he needed to do it. I would bet he would likely be scratch/ +HCP by now if he had that. [/QUOTE] It's not about money. It's about an absence of physical coordination and athletic ability. Have you seen his videos?

I don't actually think weather comes into it that much either - there's plenty you can do even if you can't actually be on a course. You could argue a country like Sweden which is frozen solid for 5 or so months of the year would be an unlikely place to produce and good golfers but they seem to manage ok.[/quote] Portland, pffffft. Cakewalk. Not cold.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWev

Dan has based himself in the wrong place with the wrong weather and doesn't have enough money to get the support/ club and coach he needed to do it. I would bet he would likely be scratch/ +HCP by now if he had that.

It's not about money. It's about an absence of physical coordination and athletic ability.

Have you seen his videos?

I don't actually think weather comes into it that much either - there's plenty you can do even if you can't actually be on a course. You could argue a country like Sweden which is frozen solid for 5 or so months of the year would be an unlikely place to produce and good golfers but they seem to manage ok.

Pretty sure it helps to play year around, as many pro golfers have homes in Jupiter FL?

Seems like once you groove a decent swing, it only helps to play 1 or 2 rounds a day or something like that?

[Pretzel]

Pretty sure it helps to play year around, as many pro golfers have homes in Jupiter FL?

Seems like once you groove a decent swing, it only helps to play 1 or 2 rounds a day or something like that?

I know playing golf, combined with working on my swing, for at least 18 holes a day is what got me from a 6-7 to a 1-2 in a summer before. Playing certainly doesn't hurt.

[DrvFrShow]

Dan has based himself in the wrong place with the wrong weather and doesn't have enough money to get the support/ club and coach he needed to do it. I would bet he would likely be scratch/ +HCP by now if he had that.

Well what about that guy in Ireland? Ireland isn't exactly the prime climate is it? Granted there aren't any of the great golf schools or great golf instructors up here or even great golfers up here in the Pacific NW because who wants to suffer through the winters voluntarily? But even the Seattle area has produced a number of great golfers. It's just that none of them live here anymore. They made their millions and moved to California or Florida.

The thing is with Dan, is that he doesn't have the money to pay for quality instruction anymore. The pro he started with was an idiot. He used a kid's program. The reason kids start with putting is because that's all they can do. They can't swing a club yet. Dan wasn't a 5 year old. The pro was having a laugh in the pro shop taking his money. He also needed to hire a physical trainer in the beginning to get his body in athletic condition for the sport.

If Dan lived in my area (Seattle Area) I'd hook him up with two people - one for his overall swing and another for his short game. If his back is well enough to go, weekly lessons during the winter months on his swing; membership and a heated driving range with unlimited balls for his dedicated practice; a gym for his strength and cardio training; and by spring start with the short game stuff. And barring further injury, he should be in fighting shape for some top level amateur tournaments come spring.

There is a nearby course that is excellent and open to the public with very reasonable green fees - Black tees rated 74.5/137 7037 yds. He could join the men's club out there just to get the preferred green fee rate. The Blue tees are 72.4/135 6600. It's a links course. And while it's not Chambers Bay, it's no walk in the park. Even my favorite dog track is 74.2/136 7083 yds. from the tips, and if they moved the third hole to the very back of that tee box it becomes 225 yds. instead of 195 - there's that much room.

Erik made him an offer and he didn't take it, but that could have been due to injury. We don't know.

But he doesn't have the money.

Resources. It's always a matter of resources.

[Nosevi]

[QUOTE name="Nosevi" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3510#post_1202691"]   [QUOTE name="Shorty" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3510#post_1202676"]   [QUOTE name="ChrisWev" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3492#post_1202412"]   Dan has based himself in the wrong place with the wrong weather and doesn't have enough money to get the support/ club and coach he needed to do it. I would bet he would likely be scratch/ +HCP by now if he had that.[/QUOTE] It's not about money. It's about an absence of physical coordination and athletic ability. Have you seen his videos?[/QUOTE] I don't actually think weather comes into it that much either - there's plenty you can do even if you can't actually be on a course. You could argue a country like Sweden which is frozen solid for 5 or so months of the year would be an unlikely place to produce and good golfers but they seem to manage ok.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure it helps to play year around, as many pro golfers have homes in Jupiter FL

True, I don't think it could hurt. I was just making the point that Sweden has a pretty appalling climate as far as playing golf in the winter goes (ie you can't) and yet it has consistently turned out some incredisbly good golfers over the years. Not sure you'd necessarily pick Ireland as a perfect golfing climate year round but, again, very good golfers seem to repeatedly come from there. Given the absolute choice I'd agree that you'd pick a location with good golfing weather year round but I don't think a lack of this could be used as a legitimate 'excuse' for any lack of progress.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWev

Dan has based himself in the wrong place with the wrong weather and doesn't have enough money to get the support/ club and coach he needed to do it. I would bet he would likely be scratch/ +HCP by now if he had that.

It's not about money. It's about an absence of physical coordination and athletic ability.

Have you seen his videos?

I don't actually think weather comes into it that much either - there's plenty you can do even if you can't actually be on a course. You could argue a country like Sweden which is frozen solid for 5 or so months of the year would be an unlikely place to produce and good golfers but they seem to manage ok.

Pretty sure it helps to play year around, as many pro golfers have homes in Jupiter FL

True, I don't think it could hurt. I was just making the point that Sweden has a pretty appalling climate as far as playing golf in the winter goes (ie you can't) and yet it has consistently turned out some incredisbly good golfers over the years. Not sure you'd necessarily pick Ireland as a perfect golfing climate year round but, again, very good golfers seem to repeatedly come from there.

Given the absolute choice I'd agree that you'd pick a location with good golfing weather year round but I don't think a lack of this could be used as a legitimate 'excuse' for any lack of progress.

Yes, true, and I played a round with one of them. He indicated that he moved to warmer climates to pursue his dream.

[Nosevi]

[QUOTE name="Nosevi" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3510#post_1202710"]   [QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3510#post_1202699"]   [QUOTE name="Nosevi" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3510#post_1202691"]   [QUOTE name="Shorty" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3510#post_1202676"]   [QUOTE name="ChrisWev" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3492#post_1202412"]   Dan has based himself in the wrong place with the wrong weather and doesn't have enough money to get the support/ club and coach he needed to do it. I would bet he would likely be scratch/ +HCP by now if he had that.[/QUOTE] It's not about money. It's about an absence of physical coordination and athletic ability. Have you seen his videos?[/QUOTE] I don't actually think weather comes into it that much either - there's plenty you can do even if you can't actually be on a course. You could argue a country like Sweden which is frozen solid for 5 or so months of the year would be an unlikely place to produce and good golfers but they seem to manage ok.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure it helps to play year around, as many pro golfers have homes in Jupiter FL[/QUOTE] True, I don't think it could hurt . I was just making the point that Sweden has a pretty appalling climate as far as playing golf in the winter goes (ie you can't) and yet it has consistently turned out some incredisbly good golfers over the years. Not sure you'd necessarily pick Ireland as a perfect golfing climate year round but, again, very good golfers seem to repeatedly come from there. Given the absolute choice I'd agree that you'd pick a location with good golfing weather year round but I don't think a lack of this could be used as a legitimate 'excuse' for any lack of progress.[/QUOTE] Yes, true, and I played a round with one of them. He indicated that he moved to warmer climates to pursue his dream.

Before or after he became a very good golfer?

[Lihu]

He's good, but not famous yet. Otherwise, I would not have played a round with him. :-)

[ChrisWev]

Come on guys I'm obviously not saying weather is the only factor but buy god it would have been much easier for him in California or Florida etc. There's a few reasons why that's pretty much why a lot of tour pro's base themselves there, weather is near the top of the list along with good courses, events and instructors.

If Dan was 10 or 20 years old and taking up the game in Portland or Miami it's probably not going to make as much difference, but he's 30 odd, this is where it has mattered. A 10 year old can play as often as they want with little cost and responsibility and any one playing 10 years is way past that 5000 hour mark.

What I'm saying is a lot of his practice and hours were used up where in crap conditions with rock hard greens and crappy rain, there's not much you can learn in those scenarios and I've never seen an event at Augusta or Pebble Beach frozen over. If he had 5,000 hours in Florida he would have got better instructors who probably wouldn't have made him putt for a year.

He basically wasted 1,000 hours and 8 months putting, then the next 4 month was crap weather and he only had about one round before he got to 1,500 hours. Within a 1,000 hours of doing that he was in single figures which is good going!

If you discount that first 1,500 hours (which was a waste), then if he had his next 1,000 hours doing what he did and then he had the money to move somewhere with good weather and coaching he could have had 9,000 hours to get from single figures to scratch, which I think he (or anyone) could have done easily. He didn't/ couldn't so it doesn't really prove if his "plan" has worked or not.

9,000 hours with Butch or another recognised instructor based somewhere favourable with his own swing room and a personal trainer and it might have been a fair fight to test the theory. He's tried to do it with his hands tied behind his broken old back (knowingly/ unknowingly).

[Lihu]

What I'm saying is a lot of his practice and hours were used up where in crap conditions with rock hard greens and crappy rain, there's not much you can learn in those scenarios and I've never seen an event at Augusta or Pebble Beach frozen over. If he had 5,000 hours in Florida he would have got better instructors who probably wouldn't have made him putt for a year.

I think his instructors told him to do the right thing.

The difference would be that even 4 year old in FL or CA would have asked why he was only putting and not hitting any balls? Which might have got him thinking a bit?

[natureboy]

That and some people who have lots of natural talent in something might not even like it.

That's a good point.

Well what about that guy in Ireland? Ireland isn't exactly the prime climate is it? Granted there aren't any of the great golf schools or great golf instructors up here or even great golfers up here in the Pacific NW because who wants to suffer through the winters voluntarily? But even the Seattle area has produced a number of great golfers. It's just that none of them live here anymore. They made their millions and moved to California or Florida.

The thing is with Dan, is that he doesn't have the money to pay for quality instruction anymore. The pro he started with was an idiot. He used a kid's program. The reason kids start with putting is because that's all they can do. They can't swing a club yet. Dan wasn't a 5 year old. The pro was having a laugh in the pro shop taking his money. He also needed to hire a physical trainer in the beginning to get his body in athletic condition for the sport.

If Dan lived in my area (Seattle Area) I'd hook him up with two people - one for his overall swing and another for his short game. If his back is well enough to go, weekly lessons during the winter months on his swing; membership and a heated driving range with unlimited balls for his dedicated practice; a gym for his strength and cardio training; and by spring start with the short game stuff. And barring further injury, he should be in fighting shape for some top level amateur tournaments come spring.

There is a nearby course that is excellent and open to the public with very reasonable green fees - Black tees rated 74.5/137 7037 yds. He could join the men's club out there just to get the preferred green fee rate. The Blue tees are 72.4/135 6600. It's a links course. And while it's not Chambers Bay, it's no walk in the park. Even my favorite dog track is 74.2/136 7083 yds. from the tips, and if they moved the third hole to the very back of that tee box it becomes 225 yds. instead of 195 - there's that much room.

Erik made him an offer and he didn't take it, but that could have been due to injury. We don't know.

But he doesn't have the money.

Resources. It's always a matter of resources.

While Ireland is a maritime influenced climate like Portland, it doesn't have a high mountain range like the Cascades to trap all that moisture so while rain is often frequent, it can be relatively light and I believe it tends to clear more quickly. The firmer, sandy links that they tend to play also retain their condition in less than a downpour. I think it also is a tad warmer in the winter because of the influence of the Gulf Stream.

I agree that this was a big mistake by his original instructor. His thinking was probably, well this is what the pros typically were doing when they started out (at 5).

He basically wasted 1,000 hours and 8 months putting, then the next 4 month was crap weather and he only had about one round before he got to 1,500 hours. Within a 1,000 hours of doing that he was in single figures which is good going!

I agree his start was pretty good. His first tournament score was pretty good for the course difficulty and how long he had been at it as well.

[Nosevi]

Come on guys I'm obviously not saying weather is the only factor but buy god it would have been much easier for him in California or Florida etc. There's a few reasons why that's pretty much why a lot of tour pro's base themselves there, weather is near the top of the list along with good courses, events and instructors. If Dan was 10 or 20 years old and taking up the game in Portland or Miami it's probably not going to make as much difference, but he's 30 odd, this is where it has mattered. A 10 year old can play as often as they want with little cost and responsibility and any one playing 10 years is way past that 5000 hour mark. What I'm saying is a lot of his practice and hours were used up where in crap conditions with rock hard greens and crappy rain, there's not much you can learn in those scenarios and I've never seen an event at Augusta or Pebble Beach frozen over. If he had 5,000 hours in Florida he would have got better instructors who probably wouldn't have made him putt for a year. He basically wasted 1,000 hours and 8 months putting, then the next 4 month was crap weather and he only had about one round before he got to 1,500 hours. Within a 1,000 hours of doing that he was in single figures which is good going!  If you discount that first 1,500 hours (which was a waste), then if he had his next 1,000 hours doing what he did and then he had the money to move somewhere with good weather and coaching he could have had 9,000 hours to get from single figures to scratch, which I think he (or anyone) could have done easily. He didn't/ couldn't so it doesn't really prove if his "plan" has worked or not. 9,000 hours with Butch or another recognised instructor based somewhere favourable with his own swing room and a personal trainer and it might have been a fair fight to test the theory. He's tried to do it with his hands tied behind his broken old back (knowingly/ unknowingly).

Don't get me wrong, Chris, unlike some I have no problem with Dan the person. What I'm trying to do is take personality out of the equation and look at the plan itself and try to learn from it. Was (or rather is) weather a factor in the performance of the subject plateauing for 2 years? I'd say not. Would you have been able to get more useful hours in living in a warm climate? Yes, but then that just explains the plan taking longer rather than it stopping showing progress 2 years ago. Any professional growing up in the British Isles has to cope with pretty similar weather issues yet many make it to the pro ranks. What I was saying was that there is loads of work that can be done over the winter months. The subject has a Flightscope which has an indoor mode and also has an ipad. I've got lots of work I want to do on my long game but although I'm working on it a bit I'm doing far more short game right now while I still can. When everything freezes over and I can't get out and about, that's when I'll be switching focus to long game and the same can be done in Portland with a Flightscope but using it inside hasn't once been mentioned on the blog. I guess I can't see why you can't switch focus depending on what you can achieve at different times of the year. Take your example - why practice 3 foot putts outside when you could be learning to chip rather than chip and pitch all summer then learn to get your putter face square on a mat inside over the winter? I just think this sort of advice was daft and meant weather becomes far more of a factor than it actually needs to be. As for Dan the person, I have absolutely no issues with him at all, in fact we've chatted via email from time to time and get on fine. I hope he gets the back sorted and can get going again but when he does I just think he needs to considering changing up the plan a bit, maybe look at ways he can improve the areas of his game that will make a difference in the long term and that will probably mean finding a coach who will 'buy in' to the whole concept.

[ChrisWev]

Pete,

I don't have a problem with Dan at all either, just a problem with the 10,000 hour test, as it's not really been 10,000 hours and he's not had the best chance at it. Some would say he's not give it a good go, but he's not got much at his disposal to help himself.

I didn't realise he had a flightscope, did it have the club head numbers too, or just ball data? GC2 HMT would have helped him a great deal over winter with the full swing (if he knew what he was doing with it).

My point was the weather isn't that much of an impact on a 10-20 year old kid doing his PGA and playing every weekend etc in England, as they've got all the time in the world. Dan didn't, he was 30 and had 10,000 hours and he's wasted more than half of them on putting and messing about playing on a frozen course. I think the weather in Portland seems to be similar to the UK as far as temperature goes (but with much greater extremes) but it rains an awful lot more than over here in winter. I imagine the courses go from soggy to frozen to soggy?

If he had the money to spend each winter in a swing studio with Mark Crossfield or another pro(or be alongside a pro) who can put the data to good effect then he would have come on leaps and bounds with the full swing. It wouldn't have helped him so much with chipping, pitching, bunkers or changing lies though. I think this is where your plan has a big advantage, you've got the swing studio and it's pretty dry and mild in Lincolnshire. You should hire a digger and build yourself a varying grade pitching area ;)

I think his plateau was because he got to the point where golf gets much hard(er) and he needed some decent instruction, he obviously didn't have the money for that and was then at the point where reading on the internet and trying to teach yourself will no longer be as effective.

Totally agree that he used his time wrong, especially for the conditions.For his situation the best chance he would have had:

That first summer he should have got a pro recommended, had 5 lessons and then just hit the course and had a lesson every few weeks after that.

For me personally I wouldn't have even bothered putting or chipping for more than 10 minutes before each round as he would naturally get better at this over time. Putting is the one thing about golf where it's not meant to be difficult to get to pro level quickly, the rest of his game would always hinder him more than putting would as far as strokes gained and lost go. He could have been the best putter in the world but if you take an extra 0.5 shots to get to the green your chance has already gone. If he didn't fancy tackling the long game first he could have just practiced 100 yards and in with three clubs.

I've no statistics to back this up but I imagine the best way to get to pro level is to try and catch them up in the hardest area first, ie this order (ie the opposite to drive for show, putt for dough)

Driving (need to hit 250-280 carry, and if it's on the low side he needs to hit A LOT of fairways)

Long clubs, Hybrid,4/5i etc (just need to keep these on the fairway/ green)

Mid/ short Irons (needs good/ tight dispersion numbers, like what you work on a lot)

Pitching (100 yard and in can never be more than 3 shots)

Chipping (I wouldn't have bothered practicing this as he can learn enough on course, in the early days)

Putting (I wouldn't have bothered practicing this as he can learn enough on course,  in the early days)

Once his long game and pitching got him to low single figures standard he could have put some hours in to refine the chipping and putting.