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scv76

need someone to tell me in common words what this paragraph means

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"If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball."

Okay, here's my lame question...is removing the marker after the ball has been placed part of marking its position?

I searched this site and google trying to determine if there is a penalty when a ball moves as a result of picking up a ball marker from its position behind the ball after the ball has been placed.

I'm not lifting the ball or marking the position, I'm removing the marker after the ball is re-positioned after having marked and lifted.

I have always put the marker as close as possible to the ball, but after reading up on the topic, I see the marker can be as far away from the ball as one inch.

I'm so confused!!

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I believe that, yes, lifting your marker after replacing the ball is part of the process of marking.

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Picking up the marker is part of the marking process. If you move the ball while picking it up, you must replace the ball to it's original position without a penalty. See decision 20-1/15:

20-1/15  Meaning of "Directly Attributable" in Rules 20-1 and 20-3a

Q. What is meant by the phrase "directly attributable to the specific act" in Rules 20-1 and 20-3a?

A. In Rule 20-1 the phrase means the specific act of placing a ball-marker behind the ball, placing a club to the side of the ball, or lifting the ball such that the player's hand, the placement of the ball-marker or the club, or the lifting of the ball causes the ball or the ball-marker to move.

In Rule 20-3a the phrase means the specific act of placing or replacing a ball in front of a ball-marker, placing a club to the side of the ball-marker, or lifting the ball-marker such that the player's hand, the placement of the ball or the club, or the lifting of the ball-marker causes the ball or the ball-marker to move.

The thing with Padraig Harrington some weeks ago was, that he removed the marker, the ball moved, and then - to his impression - rolled back into it's original position. Only in HD-slow motion it was noticeable, that the ball didn't move back into it's position COMPLETELY.

greetings

michi

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Originally Posted by mihi4

Picking up the marker is part of the marking process. If you move the ball while picking it up, you must replace the ball to it's original position without a penalty. See decision 20-1/15:

The thing with Padraig Harrington some weeks ago was, that he removed the marker, the ball moved, and then - to his impression - rolled back into it's original position. Only in HD-slow motion it was noticeable, that the ball didn't move back into it's position COMPLETELY.

greetings

michi

I was good until the part about Harrington.  In that case the movement of the ball couldn't be attributed to the movement of the marker right?  I didn't see it, just heard about it.  I was under the impression that the ball moved AFTER (after being the important word) he removed his marker...

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Originally Posted by jwrussell

I was good until the part about Harrington.  In that case the movement of the ball couldn't be attributed to the movement of the marker right?  I didn't see it, just heard about it.  I was under the impression that the ball moved AFTER (after being the important word) he removed his marker...

From what I read, Paddy said that he bumped the ball as he was lifting his marker, but that he thought the ball had just oscillated, when in fact it had moved.  If he had returned it to its previous position, he would not have been penalized.

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Okay, so in summation, any ball that moves as a result of placing or removing the ball marker is not a penalty, but the ball must be returned to its original position before the next stroke

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Originally Posted by scv76

Okay, so in summation, any ball that moves as a result of placing or removing the ball marker is not a penalty, but the ball must be returned to its original position before the next stroke

As a direct result.  The wording is the key.  If you drop your marker on the ball, or drop the ball on the marker, and cause either one to move from that, then it is not considered a direct result,

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Thanks for clearing this up

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