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Downfall of the country club?


jorgesgolf
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IMHO the cart fee is not really excessive, but to require it seems to be so...

Yeah. The course I played didn't require carts, my friend wanted one, so I went along with it. That cart fee would've gotten me 9 or 18 holes at some executive courses, and is a far better use of my money. Now, if there were a course I loved, esp with reciprocal rights, and I could pay for a membership that included a good range and good course, I'd certainly consider it. If there were food minimums, etc, I'd just consider that part of the monthly cost, and then the food after the round is just a bonus. And I'm reminded that I was raised by accountants...

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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I live in the same area jcard71 does so I'm familiar with the course he belongs to (very nice) and the general area. The interesting development in our area is that two very well known (and to my knowldedge, heavily played) public courses are being slated for a "lifestyle" development. That's 36 holes of public golf gone. So I was very interested when I saw Skymeadow's lowered initiation fees. I don't play enough rounds to justify it, and I live about 20 minutes away so I will not take advantage of it. Most of the private clubs in our area are old line places - Nashua CC, Manchester CC and Concord CC. I know Concord has a big waiting list but I think Nashua is taking members. Most of the other clubs are either public or semi private. Some are struggling, some are doing just fine. That seems to be the story all through northern New England.

I played a very nice private course in Vermont last summer up near the Stowe area (CC of Vermont) and they are dying for new members. I've heard the same about the Nicklaus designed course in Burlington - Vermont National. But there's a huge waiting list for the old school (Ross designed) Burlington Country Club. It doesn't help matters that you can play some very fine courses in northern NE without being a member (Sky Meadow and the others aside). So it's a real mixed bag up here in New England.

In my bag:

Driver: Wishon 915CFE, 420cc, SK Fiber Lite Revolution I
Irons: Tommy Armour 845 FS - PW - 3
Hybrid: Adams Idea 21 deg.Wedges: Cleveland 900 52 deg., 56 deg. TA588 60 deg.Putter: Generic mallet style

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My opinion on the problem with "Country Clubs" is this. They are good ol boy courses. They have, HAD, alot of money rolling through them and lacked what makes a golf course run, which is golfers. It was about stature and not about the game. This snobby mentality isnt very inviting to the new wave of golfers. If you want to have a good time with your family then just make a tee time at a country club. After being looked down on clear through the clubhouse and then a 4 hour rushed 18, your probably not coming back. If they want to keep Country Clubs alive they better start looking into some family oriented golf nights and kids programs.

In the bag:
Driver-:Launcher
Hybrid-:Srixon hybrids 3
Irons 4-PW-:
Wedges- Callaway X-tour "Mack Daddies"Putter-:mizuno bettinardiBall- Pro V1 ZUR c Bridgestone B330SThey call me the bus driver cuz I'll be taken your ass to school!!!!

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I forgot to ask an important question to those that are CC members - how do you get past the "variety is the spice of life?"

For me, a reason not to join is that I would feel obligated to play my course, considering I already 'paid for it'. I know good clubs have reciprocal rights, but how many good country clubs do you get to play in exchange for yours?

WITB: Driver: Titleist 910 D2 10.5 R / 5 Wood: r7 ti / Irons: Ping G15 Steel R (3-P, U), / Wedges: Vokey SM4 56/11 SM4 60/07 / Putter: Scotty GoLo 33" / Ball: Titleist Velocity / Shoes: Adidas Tour 360 4.0 / GPS: SG3

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If you look at the site closely, there are all kinds of "10 things your blank blank blank didn''t tell you..."

Some of the information in that article I've heard before from unrelated sources, so there is a lot of truth in it. I'm sure that not every club is in financial trouble, but they are certainly not as secure as they once were. Yesterday I played a 3-1/2 hour round at a public course. I've also played 5 hour rounds at my brother-in-law's club, and the cost of that "privilege" was double the cost of my home course. I prefer to have the option of playing any place, any time, without feeling like I was wasting money by not playing at the club that I've already paid for. $370 a month is 10 rounds at my public course, or 5 rounds there and 2 or 3 at some of the upscale public courses around town, of which we have some very nice ones. Private clubs work for some, but they defintely aren't for everyone.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I live in the same area jcard71 does so I'm familiar with the course he belongs to (very nice) and the general area. The interesting development in our area is that two very well known (and to my knowldedge, heavily played) public courses are being slated for a "lifestyle" development. That's 36 holes of public golf gone. So I was very interested when I saw Skymeadow's lowered initiation fees. I don't play enough rounds to justify it, and I live about 20 minutes away so I will not take advantage of it. Most of the private clubs in our area are old line places - Nashua CC, Manchester CC and Concord CC. I know Concord has a big waiting list but I think Nashua is taking members. Most of the other clubs are either public or semi private. Some are struggling, some are doing just fine. That seems to be the story all through northern New England.

You make a good point, Green Meadow (36 holes) is closing this year and I think it's too bad because it's a decent place to just get out and play and a lot of people will miss it. I don't see many people in favor of private clubs on this thread because most people aren't member of a CC. If you ask people who are members, they'll tell you they would rather play a private CC then play public. To me, the drop in the int fee from 15k to 6k to be paid over five years was too good of a deal to pass up. Nashua CC is also hurting for members. I wouldn't be suprised if Skymeadow drops the cost again, but with the amount of golf I play it was a no brainer... Someone mentioned a four hour round is being rushed?!?!? Hope I never play behind you...
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I forgot to ask an important question to those that are CC members - how do you get past the "variety is the spice of life?"

That's a good question. I guess it all depends on the course. I don't mind playing the same course if it's in great shape and challenging. I have a couple friends that are members at other CC in MASS and I'll invite them to my place for member quest tournaments and vice versa... Also, the "good ol boys" comment someone made earlier is not true about all CC's. I'm 35 and most of the members at my course are between 35-50.
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In the two or three years that I've been playing regularly, I've learned to book tee times at public courses so that I avoid the crowds. On weekends, this isn't always easy but since I hate seeing someone behind me and I hate waiting on the tee, I go out of my way to avoid peak playing times whenever possible. Most of the time, I only play nine holes at a time (see below). I've heard complaints from many members of private clubs about long rounds and I suspect that at peak times, this is often the case. So are you really getting your money's worth?

I think people join private clubs for a few reasons and not necessarily just for golf. We belonged to a country club when I was a kid and looking back on it, I see it was a way for my father to entertain his business clients on weekends while my mother, my brother and sister and I had a place to swim, etc. We saw my father for a couple of hours during the weekend day and that was it. My mother accepted it as the price of success. I think there are fewer women who will put up with that today and much more is being demanded of fathers. In my case, I simply wouldn't get the use of the club like the one I grew up with because I can't disappear for 5 or more hours (hell, I can't disappear for an hour, some days!) while my wife and kids busy themselves with something else. It may work for some families or for singles or people with no kids. But the traditional club doesn't really work very well for many families.

We do belong to a club but it has no golf (just a putting green) and it is a multi sport facility. It is not exclusive but it has many things to do for most members of the family. 3 pools (indoor/outdoor), a huge weight training and exercise room, 1/5 mile indoor track, basketball courts (indoor/outdoor), tennis courts (indoor/outdoor), indoor playing fields, rock climbing wall, restaurant, child care facility, hair cutting, massage, etc. etc. etc. They have excellent programming for families and individuals and it is a great value. It is this type of club, (and not the old line golf club with great golf but limited in every other way) that will attract families. Now, if only my club would add golf to the menu . . .

In my bag:

Driver: Wishon 915CFE, 420cc, SK Fiber Lite Revolution I
Irons: Tommy Armour 845 FS - PW - 3
Hybrid: Adams Idea 21 deg.Wedges: Cleveland 900 52 deg., 56 deg. TA588 60 deg.Putter: Generic mallet style

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That kind of club sounds great. I have thought about joining a club, but I usually play with the same charaters every weekend and I don't think many of them will be joining a cc. I also enjoy playing different courses and since I live in Michigan, there are tons of different courses to choose from. I would primarily be worried that I woudn't get my monies worth. I find it hard to stop at the local practice facility. The post earlier about the change in people's daily lives really makes a point. I usually don't leave work until 5:30 at the earliest and to stop at the range and practice for an hour means I am not getting home until at least 7:30-8:00 by which time my son (2) is getting ready for bed. I don't know if I could get to a club enough to really get the use out of it that would justify the heafty fees. I guess if I had a couple of kids who absolutely loved golf, and would use the club during the summer I would consider it then but as everyone knows kids interest change at the drop of a hat.

In my Grom:
Driver: :nike: Sasquatch 9.5° Graffalloy Shaft-Stiff Flex
FW: :nike: 3 (15°) & 5 (19°) Sasquatch Diamana Shaft-Stiff Flex
Hybrid: :touredge: Tour Edge Exotics Ironwood 21° Adila Shaft-Stiff Flex
Irons: :nike: 4-AW OSS Steel Shaft-Stiff Flex
Wedges: :vokey: Vokey Spin Milled 54 and 60
Putter:  :edel: Basic Series 

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Vegas has many private and semi-private courses that are great courses but there are equally as many daily fee courses that are great to play and offer local specials. There is no incentive for me to join a CC at my age because I love playing different courses all the time and the CC crowds are at least 10-15 years older than I am so not much in common.

My other thought on this is that when joining a CC in Vegas, you have to play at least 8-10 times a month to have it worth your while to join and I just don't have that kind of time.
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jcard, you may be right that once you join a private cc, you're hooked. Skymeadow is a very nice place and a few of my friends have summer memberships there just for the pool. The facility is first rate and relatively new, when compared to the old line clubs. And the layout is excellent compared to others in our area. Enjoy!

Question: Have you ever played Nashua CC? I have not and I'm wondering what it's like. I think it's funny that Nashua provides rooms for members and guests - I suppose if you're wife kicks you out, you don't have to sleep in the doghouse or on the couch

In my bag:

Driver: Wishon 915CFE, 420cc, SK Fiber Lite Revolution I
Irons: Tommy Armour 845 FS - PW - 3
Hybrid: Adams Idea 21 deg.Wedges: Cleveland 900 52 deg., 56 deg. TA588 60 deg.Putter: Generic mallet style

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I live in the Raleigh area and we are experiencing the exact opposite of the thread's title. We are losing public tracks to RE development and there seems to be more of a glut of private courses around here. I "belong" to a semi-private facility and it is certainly not the best course.

And let me assure you that joining any of these clubs is not a cheap affair either. The course up the road from me is $42K to join and there are plenty of others way up there too.

I am praying that this trend does not continue but I have a feeling I am in for some bad news. It is more than likely going to mean driving further to play if necessary which puts more of a cramp on my already cramped time.
In my bag:
Driver : 905R 9.5*
3 Wood: Big Bertha Titanium 15*
5 Wood: Big Bertha Titanium 19*
Irons : 755Wedges: Vokey 50* Wedges: 588 DSG 56* Putter: 2 Ball Lined Blade 35Ball : ProV1
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If I had the money(which I will some day), I wouldn't mind being a member of the country club; however, it would only be for the golf. It wouldn't be for the image that goes along with the club. I think all golfers appreciate the quality and maintenance that goes into most private courses.

I mainly play two courses near me. One is a municipal course with 9-holes and two sets of tee boxes that play like 18. The course isn't the most difficult, but for the money it is very impressive. You can pay $17 and play as much as you want all day and that includes a cart. I think it is like $9 if you walk. The other is a moderately challenging public course. The public course only cost $500 for a years membership and if you add your wife its only $575 total for the year... its one of the best deals I have seen and the course is of a pretty nice quality.
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jcard, you may be right that once you join a private cc, you're hooked. Skymeadow is a very nice place and a few of my friends have summer memberships there just for the pool. The facility is first rate and relatively new, when compared to the old line clubs. And the layout is excellent compared to others in our area. Enjoy!

No, I've never played Nashua. Have you played Skymeadow?

I played it 13 years ago when I first started playing, but I don't remember any holes... Maybe because I was in the woods the whole round. They open April 6th and I'll be getting sick around noon...
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There's another private club trend I've noticed up here as well. I think that many serious golfers are just looking for a golf facility and nothing more. They don't want the restaurant minimums, the social scene or any of that. Just a nice layout that is accessible and not crowded. A couple of newer clubs have opened up here on just that principle. Last year I played a course up in the Lake Sunapee area. It's a beautiful layout overlooking the lake, but it's basically the course, the maintenance facilities and a very small clubhouse. People go there to play golf, period. It seems to be doing fine. There is a wealthy population (both summer and permanent) to support the course. There are a few of these types of courses tucked into various summer enclaves. I mentioned in an earlier post that Concord CC has a big waiting list, while Manchester and Nashua need members. It's interesting to note that Concord has no restaurant minimums or other social obligations. The facility is small, and outings and functions are fairly limited. Many people will drive the half hour or so to belong to Concord rather than put up with the scene at Manchester or Nashua. So that seems to be a factor up here.

jcard, I have never played Skymeadow but I did walk the course a number of years ago one thanksgiving day. You'll love it.

In my bag:

Driver: Wishon 915CFE, 420cc, SK Fiber Lite Revolution I
Irons: Tommy Armour 845 FS - PW - 3
Hybrid: Adams Idea 21 deg.Wedges: Cleveland 900 52 deg., 56 deg. TA588 60 deg.Putter: Generic mallet style

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Note: This thread is 6210 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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