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My Swing (Hogan Project)


Hogan Project
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I don't want to beat a dead horse, but learning dance steps and a foreign language are different than a golf swing.Β Β  You may believe you speak spanish like you're from Spain, but does someone from Spain agree?Β  Also keep in mind Hogans been accused of intentionally misleading people about his swing to maintain an "edge" while others believe he was being honest in stating what he "thought" he was doing, but as Erik on these boards states all the time "Feel isn't real".Β  I don't doubt with enough practice you can get your swing to look like Hogans when played back side by side on video.Β  The guy you were debating with meant Hogans swing was a result of his physical strengths and limitations, if yours aren't the same you're not likely to see similar resultsΒ by mimicking hisΒ swing.Β  That's the part I question as well.Β  Keep us posted.

Originally Posted by Hogan Project

I had a good debate with a guy on the topic of Hogan's swing. He said "Hogan's swing was part of his DNA,not yours". On a joking note, it has been scientifically proven that DNA is extractable and clonable lol. On a serious note, take the example of language. I am teaching myself Spanish and Italian. I was born in the United States and I have the accent of a person born/raised in the U.S. This is not part of my DNA, it is based on the surrounding I was raised in, based on the observational learning that took place when I was growing up. I developed the accent of the people around me. As I began to learn Spanish , I spoke Spanish words with an "American" accent. Over time, I have been able to observe/listen to Spanish speakers and gain an understanding of the specifics of their accent, and can now speak Spanish that sounds like I am from Spain. I have never been there, I have no Spanish relatives, I have no Spanish "DNA," but I was able to copy and imitate.

In time, I will observe enough of the Hogan moves and practice them enough until my swing has a Hogan accent.



Joe Paradiso

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Lol....the horse isn't dead yet. Learning is learning. The human mind is more powerful than you realize. You can teach yourself just about anything if you just give yourself permission to do so. This Hogan project is not impossible, but very difficult; imagine if me being right-handed for the past 41 years decided to use Phil Mickleson as my model........now that would be extttttrrrrrreeeemly difficult...but not impossible lol. I would just have to learn to be left handed.

And the one thing I've preached since I got suckered into this game a few years ago is "what you feel is not real." One of my golf buddies complains that I remind him of this a little too much lol.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but learning dance steps and a foreign language are different than a golf swing.Β Β  You may believe you speak spanish like you're from Spain, but does someone from Spain agree?Β  Also keep in mind Hogans been accused of intentionally misleading people about his swing to maintain an "edge" while others believe he was being honest in stating what he "thought" he was doing, but as Erik on these boards states all the time "Feel isn't real".Β  I don't doubt with enough practice you can get your swing to look like Hogans when played back side by side on video.Β  The guy you were debating with meant Hogans swing was a result of his physical strengths and limitations, if yours aren't the same you're not likely to see similar resultsΒ by mimicking hisΒ swing.Β  That's the part I question as well.Β  Keep us posted.



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I can't explain why but I like this thread...keep up the good work and keep us posted. Saying you are doing this for a PhD dissertation should have been enough toΒ explain why you are doingΒ this to everyone that has asked.

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Thanks Bo. lol, if I could only get my wife to think that way lol, this project would be a lot easier.

Originally Posted by Bo the Golfer

I can't explain why but I like this thread...keep up the good work and keep us posted. Saying you are doing this for a PhD dissertation should have been enough toΒ explain why you are doingΒ this to everyone that has asked.



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Originally Posted by Hogan Project

Lol....the horse isn't dead yet. Learning is learning. The human mind is more powerful than you realize. You can teach yourself just about anything if you just give yourself permission to do so. This Hogan project is not impossible, but very difficult; imagine if me being right-handed for the past 41 years decided to use Phil Mickleson as my model........now that would be extttttrrrrrreeeemly difficult...but not impossible lol. I would just have to learn to be left handed.


Phil is right-handed.

I don't think it would be any more difficult than what you're attempting to do now.

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One of my friends asked,"If you want to get better at golf, and if you want to learn the Hogan mechanics, why not just hire a swing instructor that teaches the one-plane method, or one that has an in-depth understanding of what Hogan was doing and his secret. Would save you lots of time so you could get out on the course and enjoy the game."

My response: I did think about getting a "one-plane swing" instructor, but realized that I would be missing the critical lessons learned from my infinite failures.

Example: If I had a parachute on my back and were dropped on a large Egyptian island that measured 390,000 sq miles, with a map that showed exactly how to get to the fun-filled golf resort on the other side, I would miss all of the incredible journey in between.

In my case, I want to jump out of the plane with the map in my hand, then as I am coming in for landing, the map is suddenly torn away from me by a quick wind and taken off into the distant ocean. I land and stand there dumbfounded and lost. I've heard so much about the golf resort; it's absolutely magical there! I fold my parachute, get out a bottle of water, and start the journey. As I walk, I stumble across lots of cool treasures along the way. Lol, who knows, in my case, I may just wander around the 390,000 sq mile land mass forever, never even getting close to the golf resort, but that is ok too, cause along the way, I met lots of new people, made a bunch of cool friends, and even some cool enemies, discover lots of interesting towns, and learned a lot about myself. I can either stand and stare at this Nile River, or dive into it and start swimming upstream lol.

And....there is no Hogan secret.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogan Project

One of my friends asked,"If you want to get better at golf, and if you want to learn the Hogan mechanics, why not just hire a swing instructor that teaches the one-plane method, or one that has an in-depth understanding of what Hogan was doing and his secret. Would save you lots of time so you could get out on the course and enjoy the game."

My response: I did think about getting a "one-plane swing" instructor, but realized that I would be missing the critical lessons learned from my infinite failures.

Example: If I had a parachute on my back and were dropped on a large Egyptian island that measured 390,000 sq miles, with a map that showed exactly how to get to the fun-filled golf resort on the other side, I would miss all of the incredible journey in between.

In my case, I want to jump out of the plane with the map in my hand, then as I am coming in for landing, the map is suddenly torn away from me by a quick wind and taken off into the distant ocean. I land and stand there dumbfounded and lost. I've heard so much about the golf resort; it's absolutely magical there! I fold my parachute, get out a bottle of water, and start the journey. As I walk, I stumble across lots of cool treasures along the way. Lol, who knows, in my case, I may just wander around the 390,000 sq mile land mass forever, never even getting close to the golf resort, but that is ok too, cause along the way, I met lots of new people, made a bunch of cool friends, and even some cool enemies, discover lots of interesting towns, and learned a lot about myself. I can either stand and stare at this Nile River, or dive into it and start swimming upstream lol.

And....there is no Hogan secret.



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There is a bit of insanity in this but I think golf has a bit of that. What other game is there where you are "great" one day and horrible the next? I don't think this is the fastest path but there may be some profound knowledge to be gained in the journey. Good luck I'll follow along.
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There is a bit of insanity in this but I think golf has a bit of that. What other game is there where you are "great" one day and horrible the next?

Not to be a dick, but most sports are like that. :-)

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I think when you jumped out of the plane you whacked your head on a rock. To each his own but this is kinda looney bordering on creepy. If i had a good friend who started talking in weird metaphors about 400,000 square foot islands and started dressing like a a golfer and filming himself in his backyard, Id think something was seriously wrong with him.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it if that is what you want, but don't be surprised when people think your a nutcase or question your motives. Even you must realize how weird this looks.

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Have you ever gotten in your car, driven to a golf course, gone inside the clubhouse, paid $8 for a large bucket of white or yellow balls, taken them to the range area, hit them all back to the golf course, then gotten in your car and driven back home with nothing to show for your $8. If so.......welcome to nutcase and looney-land lol.

Robin WiliamsΒ reminds you of just how weird all of us golfers are lol:

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I remember someone telling me that I should focus on Hogans concentraton drills in order to gain a better understanding of his mechanics. They were right. From the address, to takeaway, to "the top", regular swing vs concentration are spot on. This should be all I need to master this part of the swing.

Regular swing is on the left. Concentration drill is on the right.

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I think what you're doing is quite interesting, and everyone who seems offended that you're trying to learn Hogan's swing seems not to understand what you keep saying: that your goal is to learn to copy the swing; not necessarily to play good golf with it.

Having watched a bit of the video you've posted, I'd point out that you seem to be missing a lot of the force Hogan seemed to put into his body rotation.Β  A lot of the "positions" you're focused on are not necessarily meaningful unless you progress between them with a certain timing.Β  Particularly the portion from the top of the swing down to impact, involved very explosive hip and torso rotation when Hogan did it, and in your swing it's a much gentler and slower movement.Β  Something to keep in mind I suppose.

-Andrew

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Originally Posted by Open-Faced Club Sandwedge

I think what you're doing is quite interesting, and everyone who seems offended that you're trying to learn Hogan's swing seems not to understand what you keep saying: that your goal is to learn to copy the swing; not necessarily to play good golf with it.

Having watched a bit of the video you've posted, I'd point out that you seem to be missing a lot of the force Hogan seemed to put into his body rotation.Β  A lot of the "positions" you're focused on are not necessarily meaningful unless you progress between them with a certain timing.Β  Particularly the portion from the top of the swing down to impact, involved very explosive hip and torso rotation when Hogan did it, and in your swing it's a much gentler and slower movement.Β  Something to keep in mind I suppose.

-Andrew



Yes, copying the swing is the main goal, but who knows, good golf may happen as an indirect result.

Regarding my videos, trust me, I know my swing totally sucks lol. I am currently on 'Take 8.' It's gonna be fun to see what has evolved when I am at 'Take 100." My focus right now is not the full swing, but the takeaway.I've been frustrated with it for the past month lol. I'm putting together a detailed study guide as I go.

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I don't understand why this project makes so many people angry...

Sure, it is "hogan's swing", but why not chase something that works? Β How many golf tips are 'keep your head down' or 'keep your arms in' etc. etc... if Β you work towards a known quantity it will ideally contain all of these aspects.

The one valid point I read was iacas's question about 'which' hogan swing. Β Because he did have some changes over time.

I've tried to make a hogan swing, I've tried to make a tiger woods swing... I have failed at both, but wish I could have succeeded.

Good luck, and I will check back.

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I don't think anyone cares enough to be angry nor consider it "stealing" Hogans swing.Β  I've taken aspects of Hogans swing, his grip, his waggle, takeaway, etc and applied them to my body.Β Β IΒ didn't goΒ to the lengths of dressing like him and attempting to make sure every movement I made was exactly the same as his.Β  I'd say it's weird but no one is angry.

Originally Posted by bustaone

I don't understand why this project makes so many people angry...

Sure, it is "hogan's swing", but why not chase something that works? Β How many golf tips are 'keep your head down' or 'keep your arms in' etc. etc... if Β you work towards a known quantity it will ideally contain all of these aspects.

The one valid point I read was iacas's question about 'which' hogan swing. Β Because he did have some changes over time.

I've tried to make a hogan swing, I've tried to make a tiger woods swing... I have failed at both, but wish I could have succeeded.

Good luck, and I will check back.



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Joe Paradiso

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If you want to copy Hogan I will offer my suggestions.

1. Read Mike Hebron's book "See and Feel the Inside move the Outside". I think it will help your understanding of both learning and some of what Hogan was talking about in 5L. In fact if you are bold enough call Mike, he is a HUGE Hogan fan, he even went to Hogan's funeral. He loves to think about learning and how to improve it and would be interested in your project in my opinion. I think he would be able to help.

2. In addition to Mike go find some other instructors that love Hogan. I think Geoff Jones, Martin Ayers, and John Erickson come to mind first. I am not certain any of them have Hogan nailed but they can give you a perspective, some things to think about. Greg McHatton has a blob man which is a copy of Hogan's swing (I think it is on youtube) which is another further suggestion to help you on your path.

3. You need to match Hogan's equipment, you cannot expect to swing like him unless you have the equipment to do so, I see you already have the persimmon, certainly that is a good start. I think you will also need: Stiff shafts, I mean rebar-like stiff shafts, nobody debates this fact. Go get some X300 and tip them. Make them as stiff as you can. Make um heavy, probably in the E swingweight range. Flat, probably 4-5 degrees flat of standard and probably 2-3 degrees open. How flat his irons were has been debated. I have seen a 2-3 degrees flat to 6 degrees flat but they were still flat.

4. I think you should not try to match positions. People have done this, I haven't seen anyone succeed taking this route. I guess you could be the first but I think you would be better off first learning his pivot then learning the backswing.

As I think about this I may have more. I look forward to watching your progress.

Michael

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Originally Posted by bustaone

I don't understand why this project makes so many people angry...

Sure, it is "hogan's swing", but why not chase something that works? Β How many golf tips are 'keep your head down' or 'keep your arms in' etc. etc... if Β you work towards a known quantity it will ideally contain all of these aspects.

The one valid point I read was iacas's question about 'which' hogan swing. Β Because he did have some changes over time.

I've tried to make a hogan swing, I've tried to make a tiger woods swing... I have failed at both, but wish I could have succeeded.

Good luck, and I will check back.


Thanks for the positive energy bustaone.

I've broken all the swings of Hogan down (and if you have learned anything about my personality, I get a little more detailed than I probably should lol), from the early days to his hay-days, to elderly. Sure, they are all a bit different, but all have the same basic movement. Don't give up on the swing just yet.....who knows, if I have an ounce of understanding of what's happening in the Hogan swing as IΒ go along, I'll be sure to let you know how I'm making it happen.

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Note:Β This thread is 4078 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic.Β Thank you!

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