• Announcements

    • iacas

      Create a Signature!   02/05/2016

      Everyone, go here and edit your signature this week: http://thesandtrap.com/settings/signature/.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Pomerol

Power of Referee??

8 posts in this topic

As Seniors Captain it is normal to act as Referee in our singles final over 18 holes.On our 17th, player 1 was in a ditch which is part of a  lateral hazard with his ball resting against part of a branch of a tree which had fallen from a dead branch overhead.Our course is not strong financially and only employs one green keeper so course maintainance is poor. I decided it was unfair to penalise player 1 so I (under no pressure from Player1) remover the branch from the hazard

.Player 1 went on to win the hole. Player 2 objected to my action. Unsure of the legality of what I had done we discussed the situation and decided to replay the hole.

i would appreciate input on what I did, especially should Player 1 have been obliged to take a penaly drop in the unplayable situation?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to get rid of this advertisement? Sign up (or log in) today! It's free!



Originally Posted by Pomerol

As Seniors Captain it is normal to act as Referee in our singles final over 18 holes.On our 17th, player 1 was in a ditch which is part of a  lateral hazard with his ball resting against part of a branch of a tree which had fallen from a dead branch overhead.Our course is not strong financially and only employs one green keeper so course maintainance is poor. I decided it was unfair to penalise player 1 so I (under no pressure from Player1) remover the branch from the hazard

.Player 1 went on to win the hole. Player 2 objected to my action. Unsure of the legality of what I had done we discussed the situation and decided to replay the hole.

i would appreciate input on what I did, especially should Player 1 have been obliged to take a penaly drop in the unplayable situation?


As referee you had neither the right nor the duty to remove the branch.  Note in the definition that the referee is only there to apply the rules, not to determine the fairness of the rules.  The rules are not intended to be fair, only to be applied equally to all players.  There are many courses which don't meticulously groom their hazards, my own included.  When a player hits into a hazard, he has to accept the fact that he may have trouble with his next shot.  That is simply the nature of hazards.  To be honest, I think that your act was unfair to Player 2, since it seems that he might have been in a position to win the hole, and your act changed that outcome.  Since your act forced them to have to replay the hole, any advantage he might have had for avoiding that hazard was negated.

Referee

A "referee" is one who is appointed by the Committee to accompany players to decide questions of fact and apply the Rules. He must act on any breach of a Rule that he observes or is reported to him.

A referee should not attend the flagstick, stand at or mark the position of the hole, or lift the ball or mark its position.

A referee could have made a determination of abnormal ground if such was warranted, but he should not be allowed to breach a rule in favor of either player.  By moving a loose impediment in a hazard, I feel that your overstepped your authority.  If there was concern for maintenance issues, then you or someone appointed by you could have gone over the course before the match and addressed those concerns.  My Men's Club has a couple of members who go over the course a day or 2 before each tournament to mark the course, including any abnormal ground conditions which they might find through the green .  They also would look for such things as large downed branches which could have an unfair effect on play.  Our hazards often have a litter of branches and stones which can significantly affect play, and getting a good or bad lie in such conditions is just the luck of the draw.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You did the wrong thing.  Not quite sure how you can be wondering about the legaility of your actions, becuase it's not up to a referee to make up rules or waive them. In this situation, the player wouldn't even necessarily have thought that it was bad luck because it is normal to have branches scattered about.

You said it was unfair to penalise Player 1, but he wasn't being penalised. He hit the ball there. He is the one would would decide if his ball was unplayable.

It would be like deciding that it was unfair for a person to have their ball lying in a footprint in an unraked bunker or to allow a drop from a divot, or calling a lipped out putt good if the player was distracted by a car horn. These things are all sent to try us. And when you're in a hazard, you have to accept what you get - just as you do in the middle of the fairway.

Best to just follow the rules!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me try and get this straight........you improved a players lie in a hazard because you didn't think it was fair?

Next time I hit it into the water I'm going to call you up and get you to get rid of all the water for me so I can hit my shot

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by deasy55

Let me try and get this straight........you improved a players lie in a hazard because you didn't think it was fair?


Exactly. "Power of referee"? It's basically "none."

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

I could see you making a call that something was unmarked ground under repair -- but he was in a hazard. No possible way to improve any lie in the hazard.

I had a partner once who was in a hazard/ditch that had some grass in the it , like a little tiny island. He climbed in the ditch, stood on the grass, and declared that his ball was in standing water so he dropped -- in the hazard -- dramatically improving his lie but still left with an impossible shot. I could not convince him that this should cost us the hole and maybe the match. I explained to our opponents what he did as they were very far away and the ditch was so deep that they did not see us. He argued that I was misrepresenting the facts. BTW, he hit the most incredible shot ever to about six inches and we won the match because of it. Some 10 years later, I still will not play with this guy. Ever. Long story to say -- there is no improving the lie in a hazard. Even if you have standing water in the water hazard. :)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Originally Posted by rustyredcab

there is no improving the lie in a hazard. Even if you have standing water in the water hazard. :)


Casual water ’’ is any temporary accumulation of water on the course that is not in a water hazard

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Originally Posted by rustyredcab

-- there is no improving the lie in a hazard.



An exception is if your ball lies on, or your swing/stance, is interfered by a movable obstruction.  You get relief from movable obstructions in hazards as well as through the green and on a putting green.  A tree branch is not an obstructions, but this might help the next time your ball is sitting in a tire someone threw in the hazard.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2016 TST Partners

    GAME Golf
    PING Golf
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Posts

    • New GolfNow layout is Awful
      Sounds like we just have a different barometer for what "bad" is. This particular case isn't about "adapting" to the new site, the controls are largely the same. The problem is they blew everything up so people can see it on their phones which dilutes the quantity of information you get get to see on your PC. Also they removed useful features like the regions to again make more space for mobile users.
    • My ex-home courses closing, changing - proofs that golf is in decline
      Yes, it is extremely popular among Asians of every kind here because it's a rich man's sport in Asia. Many Asians (Korean, Japanese, and large growing Chinese/Taiwanese and many other Southeast Asians) come here and find that Golf is within reach of their "class" so they sign up their kids to play. I'd say that my wife's friend is in that category, and she also convinced us to play as well. So, here I am.
    • Putting Yips
      I completely changed my own putting stroke this year.... twice. Last year I had a terrible case of the yips and was two and three putting a lot of greens - some of the two putts were on putts that were 3-4 footers resulting from chip ons. I averaged 37.8 putts per round. My back hurts when I bend over practicing putting for any length of time. I tried to fix it, but gave up after a while, decided that I needed to hit more GIRs and get closer to the pin. My putting would always be mediocre. So at Xmas I bought a long putter .... cheap $60... no one wants them anymore. I tried side-saddle and practiced in my living room. I took it to the green yesterday and I didn't like it. I changed to the "shoulder-connected method" except with my right arm fully extended and right index finger along the shaft of the putter. I hold the putter gripped over the top like they would when anchoring it to the chest. Now I just rock my shoulders and arm as a unit. Having the right arm fully extended takes my right wrist completely out of the equation and that is what was causing my putting problem. Now, neither my forearm nor the putter head is touching my body. I am making a legal stroke at the ball.  After about 15 minutes work, I was lag putting to within gimme range of the holes on the practice green. When I'd miss the mark, the four footer would still drop. Now this is with a completely new stroke, and not an anchored stroke either. I'm standing fairly upright too so it's easy on my back and I can practice for about 30 minutes every time I go to the range without dreading it. While this might not cure my scoring woes this year, if I look at last years Game Golf analysis, I could save about 3 strokes a round by going from 37.8 putts per round to 34.8. 
    • New GolfNow layout is Awful
      Facebook updates all the time for performance reasons. Read their release notes.  But never judge good usability by Facebook as they are one of the absolute worst sites out there.   Honestly?  There isn't.  Some people are still stuck in old web menus but usability has only risen in the last decade.  Are there bad sites?  Sure.  But most sites are far and away better they anytime in the past.  You just have to adapt to them.  This isn't a knock on you its how society works.  I am a user experience designer and study this a lot.   Once a person gets used to changes, going back to the old version would be impossible     
    • "5 Minutes Daily" Practice Challenge (February 2016)
      Got to the range to drop off clubs for my daughters high school coed golf team tryouts. I sure hope she can get on the team. She's about a 15HC from the men's tees, it's going to be tough. Cross fingers and Practiced my downswing transition on grass and hit much better shots on the grass range after the first few shots. I hit too thin on the course, but was able to get some serious height on the grass range. Going to practice some more on the grass range and use golf club delivery to my daughter as an excuse to spend the extra money. Also, I feel like I can really go after the ball on grass because a fat shot is not as penal on the body as on a mat.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Images

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. TessaEdin
      TessaEdin
      (24 years old)
  • Blog Entries