• Announcements

    • iacas

      Create a Signature!   02/05/2016

      Everyone, go here and edit your signature this week: http://thesandtrap.com/settings/signature/.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
MEfree

If you had the talent,

23 posts in this topic

how long would you try to make it on tour?

I'm going to leave the question really broad because there are lots of individual factors and definitions of "TRY",  "ENOUGH talent" and "MAKE IT on tour."

Lots of guys on this board have a polite chuckle when a guy who struggles to break 80 posts about his plan to make it on tour, but what would you do if you could shoot 65 in competition on a PGA Tour golf course, but were struggling to make a living at the game?

My general thinking is that there are a lot of guys who have the game to make say,  1 in 3 or 4 or 5 cuts on Tour, given the opportunity, but need to find a way to drop about a shot a round to avoid struggling to make a decent living playing golf.

Look at the age of the following 2011 Q School graduates and the number of Tour starts they have.  I'm sure some of them may have been able to balance their pursuit to be a successful PGA Tour pro with everyday live, but others surely had to make difficult choices and sacrifices to pursue their dreams.  And this is only looking at the guys who have their cards for 2012- think about the many other guys who missed out.

The following players qualified

Pos.

Player

Country

College

Age

TOUR starts

Wins

2

Description : Description : http://www.pgatour.com/r/player/Gangluff.jpg

Stephen Gangluff

U.S.

Ohio State

36

35

0

In 25 starts on the Nationwide Tour, Gangluff made just nine cuts with his best finish a tie for ninth in Utah. He was spurred on at q-school by a third-round 64 and a fifth-round 67.

T5

Description : Description : http://www.pgatour.com/r/player/Biershenk.jpg

Tommy Biershenk

U.S.

Clemson

38

3

0

After years of trying, Biershenk will be on the TOUR for the first time in 2011. He spent this past season on the Nationwide Tour, where he had two top-10s in 25 starts.

T13

Description : Description : http://www.pgatour.com/r/player/McGirt.jpg

William McGirt

U.S.

Wofford

32

34

0

McGirt snuck into the PGA TOUR Playoffs for the FedExCup, finishing 125th in the standings, but failed to finish in the top 125 on the money list. This was the second straight year he got his TOUR card via q-school.

T18

Description : Description : http://www.pgatour.com/r/player/Sheehan.jpg

Patrick Sheehan

U.S.

Hartford

42

185

0

The 42-year-old is returning to the TOUR for the first time since 2009. Despite just seven made cuts and $18,236 in earnings on the Nationwide Tour, Sheehan finished strong at q-school with round of 66-67.

T18

Description : Description : http://www.pgatour.com/r/player/Dunlap.jpg

Scott Dunlap

U.S.

Florida Southern

48

184

0

Dunlap had five missed cuts and a WD in his last six starts on the Nationwide Tour this year. At q-school, he shot five straight rounds in the 70s before a final-round 68.

T18

Description : Description : http://www.pgatour.com/r/player/Claxton.jpg

Will Claxton

U.S.

Auburn

30

1

0

An opening-round 64 carried Claxton all week. He'll be a rookie on the PGA TOUR in 2012 after nine starts and just one top-25 on the Nationwide Tour in 2011. He also played in one TOUR event, finishing in a tie for 67th at the Transitions Championship.

T18

Description : Description : http://www.pgatour.com/r/player/Loar.jpg

Edward Loar

U.S.

Oklahoma State

34

10

0

The Dallas resident made a dozen starts on the Nationwide Tour and earned just over $21,000 in 2011. A pair of 67s in the first and fifth rounds were the key for the journeyman, who will be playing the PGA TOUR for the first time.

T24

Description : Description : http://www.pgatour.com/r/player/Rocha.jpg

Alexandre Rocha

Brazil

Mississippi St.

34

26

0

The Brazilian missed as many cuts (11) as he made on the TOUR in 2011 with just one top-25. An opening 67 at q-school ended up going a long way.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to get rid of this advertisement? Sign up (or log in) today! It's free!

For some of the guys guys have been pretty sucessfull (Sheehan, Dunlap) making a couple million playing golf. You can understand why they keep going.  Now a guy like Biershenk who has made 600k (not a lot over 14 years) on nationwide or Edward Loar (looks like he played in asia for the past 10 years), Will Claton (looks like a miniTour guy) had a much tougher go of it. Some of it probably comes down to their options (i.e. do they have a degree that could get them a 100k/yr job)

I would guess the none of them balanced golf with a regular life. They all put golf first and found jobs that they could do around golf.  There is definitely a huge luck factor (getting hot for the week, having a course that fits your game, heck just getting a couple of breaks...) that can mean the difference between PGA pro and nationwide player.  The key also isn't in making cuts (that is nice). It is in placing high since the money goes up a lot once as you move up the top 10. For example 1 5th place finish would be worth 200k which is the same as making 20 cuts at most events. So 4 good rounds followed by 4 bad ones in a row is worth a lot more than 3 good rounds 1 bad (or even ok).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming I had the skill and mindset to play on tour, I would do it as long as I made enough money to justify it vs. another means of making money.  It's a heck of a lot of time away from home to make a million bucks over 10 years, but if you can make even $400k/year then it may be worthwhile.  Ideally, it would be done while single.  The young guys like Rori and Rickie are in the best positions to be on the tour--no kids, no need to be home much, and enough skill to make a lot of money.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the "other factors" category, I suppose it would depend on a few things:

1.) Do I have any other talent or training? What else can I do to put food on the table?

2.) Who is sponsoring me? What do they want me to do? If they're putting food on my table they might appreciate me giving my last ounce of effort for their brand logo to be seen on the biggest stagess. It might bode well should I need a 9-5 job in the future. Be seen yes, but be seen trying your best in an ethical manner.

3.) What's my family's breaking point - talk about it so you'll know when to stop. Don't realize it too late.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"but if you can make even $400k/year then it may be worthwhile.''

Firstly, thats a heck of a lot of money. Period. To play golf full time? Hells yes.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Originally Posted by rossvanwyk

"but if you can make even $400k/year then it may be worthwhile.''

Firstly, thats a heck of a lot of money. Period. To play golf full time? Hells yes.


It is a lot of money, but a tour golfer's expenditures are MASSIVE. I'm not sure how much 400k in winnings would leave you at the end of the year. Probably still a lot! lol

For me, if I were in the position, I'd probably keep at it for as long as I was fit and not broke

If I were to be a full rights member of the tour, I'd probably try to play 2 weeks on, 1 week off. If you could get through the year with above 50% cuts, maybe 2 top 10's, I think you'd be laughing on tour.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Originally Posted by SpannersReady

What is Q school?

Did you Google it?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by Shorty

Did you Google it?



I'm torn between 3 replies. I'll write them all. pick your favourite.

A: no. I consider Sandtrap to be a better resource for golf Knowledge.

2: what are you, the Internet police?

iii: here's my impression of you. , WHHHAAAA, I'm that guy on the Internet that makes sniddy remarks about people's posts WHHHAAA. that guy asked a quick question instead  of researching the subject on his own. I'm gonna point it out instead of posting a quick answer that might be useful to other novices just glancing this thread wwwwhhhhaaaa.

See when I post on forums on topics where I am an expert I am happy to quickly share my knowledge. That's why I post on them. I want the thing I'm passionate about to be shared and become more popular and understood. :-)  perhaps it's because I'm so good looking,  I don't know.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the impression of everyone on the internet is that you are a lazy guy. It isn't research to type "Q School" in google. No one wants to read thread that define basic terms . If you are reading a review of a golf club do you really want people asking "Whats loft?". All IMNHO

Quote:

I'm torn between 3 replies. I'll write them all. pick your favourite.

A: no. I consider Sandtrap to be a better resource for golf Knowledge.

2: what are you, the Internet police?

iii: here's my impression of you. , WHHHAAAA, I'm that guy on the Internet that makes sniddy remarks about people's posts WHHHAAA. that guy asked a quick question instead  of researching the subject on his own. I'm gonna point it out instead of posting a quick answer that might be useful to other novices just glancing this thread wwwwhhhhaaaa.

See when I post on forums on topics where I am an expert I am happy to quickly share my knowledge. That's why I post on them. I want the thing I'm passionate about to be shared and become more popular and understood. :-)  perhaps it's because I'm so good looking,  I don't know.



0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I'm a big fan of self-starters, I'm also a big fan of efficiency and not wasting other people's time.

In the time it took you, Spanners, to make a post you could have googled "Q School" and learned your answer without having others put in the effort.

And to those who think I'm saying that it's Spanners' fault, in the time it took you to respond by saying "google it" or justifying the "google it" response, you could have given him the answer and been a nice guy in the process.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

I asked an innocent question whilst only half thinking in bed sick. I was in conversation mode.

Perhaps you should have an experts only section so that idiots like me who have only just started on golf forums don't bother you.

I expect to get wifey/bitchy/girly snipe replies when I'm trying to inject some reason or logic on Yahoo! Answers but you'd think a hobby forum where we all share a common interest would be a bit less that way.

Why not just not answer the question if you think I should have googled it. But  he didn't. He went out of his way to make a dig. the time it took to make the clever clever remark he could have just answered it.  Who knows, you could have made a friend in the process.

The Internet is like road rage. It makes people very brave because they can hid behind a screen. sorry thread starter.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by SpannersReady

What is Q school?

Originally Posted by Shorty

Did you Google it?

Originally Posted by SpannersReady

I'm torn between 3 replies. I'll write them all. pick your favourite.

A: no. I consider Sandtrap to be a better resource for golf Knowledge.

2: what are you, the Internet police?

iii: here's my impression of you. , WHHHAAAA, I'm that guy on the Internet that makes sniddy remarks about people's posts WHHHAAA. that guy asked a quick question instead  of researching the subject on his own. I'm gonna point it out instead of posting a quick answer that might be useful to other novices just glancing this thread wwwwhhhhaaaa.

See when I post on forums on topics where I am an expert I am happy to quickly share my knowledge. That's why I post on them. I want the thing I'm passionate about to be shared and become more popular and understood. :-)  perhaps it's because I'm so good looking,  I don't know.

Originally Posted by SpannersReady

I asked an innocent question whilst only half thinking in bed sick. I was in conversation mode.

Perhaps you should have an experts only section so that idiots like me who have only just started on golf forums don't bother you.

I expect to get wifey/bitchy/girly snipe replies when I'm trying to inject some reason or logic on Yahoo! Answers but you'd think a hobby forum where we all share a common interest would be a bit less that way.

Why not just not answer the question if you think I should have googled it. But  he didn't. He went out of his way to make a dig. the time it took to make the clever clever remark he could have just answered it.  Who knows, you could have made a friend in the process.

The Internet is like road rage. It makes people very brave because they can hid behind a screen. sorry thread starter.

Not a multiquotes fan, but it seems appropriate here.

Next time Shorty will give the same response, because he knows a Google reference to a simple question is basically a facepalm. It has more punch than an answer provides. Did you proceed to Google for the answer to the Q School question? If so, why not just have a laugh at yourself for asking a newb question on the interweb, then move on?

Or better yet you could have provided the only correct answer to his question: "What's Google?"

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the OP:

If I had started young and had the talent, I would have gone to the best academic school with an even decent DI golf team that would give me a spot.  Your situation is obviously not for the guy who it turns out just dominates and wins Q-School after sophomore year and goes straight to the Tour.  So I'm finishing my degree and hitting the Nationwide or Asian tour.

I keep at it as long as I'm making a living.  Tons of travel money needed to play golf professionally, but if I'm clearing even $25-$30k after expenses for the first 4-5 years, then I'm keeping at it.  If by my late 20s I'm not starting to make more and feel like I'm on a trajectory to have a high chance of getting to be one of the 75-125 rank journeymen on the PGA tour for a decent number of years in my 30s, then maybe I quit and become an instructor, start an academy, or go back entirely and go into something related to what I studied in school.  If I'm feeling I'm on that trajectory, then I'm staying at it into early 30s at least.

To SpannersReady:

I think the annoyance comes from the fact that you're wasting everyone's reading time by asking a question that it would be SO easy to google the answer to, and is only marginally related to the thread topic.  Not only that, but just for yourself you may or may not get an answer here and if you do it'll probably not be posted for hours or days, while you could spend 12 seconds getting the answer yourself while saving everyone else from having to scroll through thread chaff.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements



Originally Posted by SpannersReady

I asked an innocent question whilst only half thinking in bed sick. I was in conversation mode.

I resent being asked to write an answer to a question that is easily found. I could have ignored the question, but I didn't.

Anyway....

If you really want to know what Q School is, and I mean REALLY know what Q School is,

read "Tales From Q School" by John Feinstein - it will show you that it is probably the most dramatic week of golf of the season.  It's a great read.

In recent history, just look at what Nathan Green did this week and ask yourself where he'd be an year from now if he had had a single shot more than his final round 66.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was kinda hoping someone would give a quick answer to spanners.  I've been wondering what exactly Q School is myself and figured the answer would come up eventually.  I'm not too lazy to Google it, it just wasn't important enough for me to find out right away.  I could wait til it turned up in a thread somewhere.

That being said, whenever I Google a golf question, one of the top ten results is usually a thread from TST.  So I guess now instead of Google bringing people here when they have that question, it will take them to some other golf forum where questions like that don't waste everyones' time.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Originally Posted by Kobey

I was kinda hoping someone would give a quick answer to spanners.  I've been wondering what exactly Q School is myself and figured the answer would come up eventually.  I'm not too lazy to Google it, it just wasn't important enough for me to find out right away.  I could wait til it turned up in a thread somewhere.

That being said, whenever I Google a golf question, one of the top ten results is usually a thread from TST.  So I guess now instead of Google bringing people here when they have that question, it will take them to some other golf forum where questions like that don't waste everyones' time.


Do you know how the Google works? I don't for sure, but I believe very random images and sites show up (containing irrelevant information or no information at all) because of cookies and your IP address. You get hits for thesandtrap because you visit the site (cookies) and you get regional hits due to your IP address. I know there are certain golf club photos showing up during searches (images that I took) because the search contains terms I used during a forum discussion or the term is in the image title on photobucket (or wherever). Google is sometimes useless, but relying on the answer to a specific query to show up in forum discussion is a million times more useless.

PS. maybe I'm biased having already known what Q School is, but I'm not sure how someone could read the OP's post and not figure out what it is. Seriously.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the 1st response when I Googled "Q school".  Took one second to type it in.  How hard can that be?

PGATOUR.com - Q School

www.pgatour.com/ qschool /
3 days ago – The exclusive home of PGA TOUR Q - School , live scoring, and the most complete coverage of the best golfers in the world. Get news ...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2016 TST Partners

    GAME Golf
    PING Golf
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Posts

    • Putting Yips
      Ive recently gone from a belly to a 34" putter. Really liked the the belly putter but struggled with distance control. after practicing with the short putter i seem to have more control. Will be keeping the belly though for when i get a older or the back starts to protest!  
    • Claim Your Achievements Here!
      Broke 90, 1 career eagle.
    • Jack or Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?
      No problem.  I'm not tired of responding to sincere and thoughtful posts, like yours, even if it rehashes stuff from before because OF COURSE it is unrealistic to expect people to read 3000 posts before commenting.  In any case I have that quote in a file and it was simple to post it - much simpler and politer than saying "go find it , it's here."  I DO think that one should maybe at least read a smattering of such a big thread before jumping in,   But I have no patience whatsoever with the "I saw Jack play" and "he was nice at a clinic" type posts or posts by people who try to claim some special credibility because of some entirely personal subjective connection.  But that isn't you. As to the rest, you asked for the exact quote and I gave it to you.  If you want to argue with what he said, that is another matter and does not concern me, since my position is that even if we, arguendo, say that the field strengths did NOT get better, Tiger's career was so much more dominant than Jack's that it doesn't matter.  I don't NEED to make a stronger field argument to make the case that Tiger dominated golf in a way and to an extent that no other golfer has ever dominated golf.  And he did it for 15 years (after an absolutely unprecedented career as an amateur) which, IMO, is long enough that it no longevity argument could overcome the sheer dominance advantage his career embodied.   The fact that all that is true in the face of field strength increasing is just icing on the cake.   
    • Jack or Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?
      Excellent. Thank you for re-posting that quote. Sorry to hear you're tired of rehashing. Why not just let the thread die then? Is the expectation that folks will read all 272 pages before making a comment? That strikes me as an unrealistic expectation.. I agree the tour is tougher than it used to be. I consider the differences more incremental than astronomical...not the 'order of magnitude' range that seems to come through in some comments. I think Jack is both being accurate in assessing his perception of a shift in quality, but also exaggerating for effect or experiencing present-day myopia at the very least about the money. $100 in 1962 money would be ~ $800 dollars today. Not exactly what I would call bus fare. The 'paltry' $100,000 had the buying power of about $800,000 in today's dollars, which is ~ 60% of today's average purse and ~ 30% of the Players' purse).. Most Americans would happily take an annual salary like that today. They weren't getting ditch digger wages. The prize money even then definitely attracted keen competitive interest. Clearly purses have also grown more than inflation and even journeyman make more in a year than the top 10 in 1962 (below), but it seems about in line with the growth of the population of golfers in the U.S. itself - about triple since Jack's day, Endorsement money has definitely gotten bigger, as the tour and the golf marketplace have developed and expanded over time.   Rank       Player                  1962 $                   2015 $ 1            Arnold Palmer        $81,448                 $639,223 2            Gene Littler           $66,201                 $519,562 3            Jack Nicklaus         $61,869                 $485,563 4            Billy Casper            $61,842                 $485,351 5            Bob Goalby            $46,241                 $362,910 6            Gary Player            $45,838                 $359,748 7            Doug Sanders        $43,340                 $340,143 8            Dave Ragan          $37,327                 $292,951 9            Bobby Nichols       $34,312                 $269,288 10          Phil Rodgers          $32,182                 $252,572  
    • Claim Your Achievements Here!
      Broke par, Lowest Score Wins. 
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Images

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. TessaEdin
      TessaEdin
      (24 years old)
  • Blog Entries