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Disadvantage of too stiff a flex?


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Hey everyone,

I am looking to piece together my first full real set of clubs.

I used the gigagolf online fitting to see what kind of shaft I should really be looking for.

Turns out I fall perfectly in between stiff and regular flex, their system asked how far I can hit a 5 iron, I am between 170 and 180 and for 170 they recommend regular but 180 recommends stiff.

I know if I choose regular and have too much flex my accuracy will suffer, but what will suffer If I choose a shaft that is too stiff?

Will it be distance only or accuracy too?

What would the effects be with a driver?

Thanks,

Sebastian

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1. The ball will probably fly lower and shorter for any given loft, compared to a properly fit shaft.

2. The ball may tend to go to the right, or fade side, for right-handed golfers because with a too-stiff shaft the clubface is harder to square (the clubface is more likely to be open at impact, in other words).

3. The shot may feel less solid, more like a mis-hit even if you make contact on the center of the clubface.

And, you'll have more of those painful vibrations if you hit fat or way behind.

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You'll be able to hit shots with a tighter dispersion with stiff. It might be 30 yards right and 10 yards short, but it will be a tighter area. With too soft you can lose the ball either left or right, and you may have a really hard time controlling the distance. The wind will also kill your chances of hitting it where you want and you may hit the ball overly high. The ball may be starting off to one side with stiff but it will probably curve less once you learn the timing whereas you could have a really hard time learning the timing with a soft shaft. Remember pros as a general rule use somewhat stiff shafts and often use less force than it takes to load them, but can still control the ball. A softer shaft may help the ball spin more and come down steeper onto a green for better stopping power, but that's more about the strength of the player and the ball type.

There is talk that soft shafts increase distance, end up high and left, and have better feel. I find this to be BS in general and only true in certain conditions. A shaft that's way too soft won't be playable; you should be able IMO to take as hard a swing as you can and still have a controllable flight for the rare occasions it's necessary. You can hit a very stiff shaft at 50% and 100% and maybe the flight won't be great if you don't load it, but a soft shaft will perform well at 50% and rubbish at 100%. If you're an aggressive player and tend to swing hard or have a quick tempo, go with stiff.

At your distances, consider the True Temper Dynamic Gold S300, it's the standard shaft for most better/stronger players. You will also be able to find that shaft literally anywhere, every OEM offers in their irons at least as a custom option and it probably will never be taken off the market. The fitting system at Gigagolf is a bit off; I say they underestimate the stiffness one needs IMO. If you pick the True Temper feather flight, pick stiff because the firm is way too soft. I use it now and it worked for a couple weeks, but I gained a lot of swing speed since then and now instead of an 80mph 5 iron I swing around 96-98 or more. I hit my old 5i 160 and used that as a fitting number, and thought I'd have some room to improve with the firm. I immediately hit the new one around 180 with the firm flex, which is borderline needing stiff. Now I have the swing speed to hit over 200 yards without taxing myself, and I need something in the ballpark of an X+.

So in my case I'm using roughly 3 flexes too soft and you can bet I wish I bought the Dynamic Gold S or X flex. Take that with a grain of salt though, since I went from average to tour caliber swing speed numbers in a couple months. Generally if you stay within 1 flex of your ideal setup, you'll be able to manage just fine. The perfect shaft is hard to fit and Giga doesn't offer a lot of choices or any tipping options. Right now if I take a full swing it's hard to even make tight contact because the shaft kicks in every direction. I can do fine on partial shots, but it forces me to give up my main advantage.

The DG shafts are heavier and lower launching, so they are more resilient in general compared to the light standard shafts. Now I need to pay a lot of money to reshaft or buy new clubs because I need much more shaft. That's not likely to happen to most people, and unless you're a good athlete and devote considerable time you'll likely peak out around 85-90mph on the 5i. Right now, you should be in the 80-85 ballpark. The S300 is recommended in the 80-90mph range, and works well for that whole range generally, while the lighter shafts don't have the stability or weight to handle more than they're designed for.

Personally, I find a soft shaft is unplayable unless you either have a very smooth swing or you dial it way way down. I would rather use a shaft that feels like a plank but is consistent and I don't need to hold back to control it. In my case I now have a shorter and quicker backswing and more aggressive release than I did, and that will also require a heavier or stiffer shaft for a given swing speed.

I tell you my woeful tale because I'm in the middle of pricing out a new set and it sucks. I will either spend 300$ or more on labor along with 280$ on 8 shafts, or 300$ on new heads and tools for reshafting them myself, plus 280 for shafts and maybe screw it up. Or I could spend over a grand since no OEM offers anything stiffer than an X100 standard. And that's just my irons. Right now I'd rather play with a set of 4 irons: a 3, 5, 7, and 9 that had very stiff shafts along with my current sand and lob wedges and putter, instead of using my current full set. I give up so much control and effective distance that I bet I'd beat myself in match play handily, and I hit my long clubs pretty well before I changed my swing.

I can tell you that you can find a good fitter out there, pay him 50-100$, and get the exact specs of shaft you need and likely get the chance to hit them. I have to do that now because my 100$ set of irons are wet noodles in the face of my new swing. The beauty of Giga is that you can replace the clubs for cheap and return them within 30 days if you somewhat guess on the flex. Honestly I like the heads, but I outgrew their product line and the only shafts that they offer in X flex are still a bit too soft for me. Get fitted or buy a 7 iron to demo and see how the shaft agrees with your swing. Honestly I think you're at the point where you can launch the ball decently swing speed wise, so you can adapt to a shaft that's a bit firm. A lower swing speed player, who hits his 5i around 150 would probably need a light graphite shaft with an A or R flex. Hitting 180 with the 5 iron is enough power to use equipment that doesn't give you tons of help. Just be honest with yourself if you hit the 5 iron 180 every time you hit it solid or only on a perfect, hard shot. If it's a stretch to use that club from that range, don't succumb to machismo. But for the most part you'll be left with a playable set unless the golf gods pull on you what they did on me. Most likely, unless you do a side by side comparison you probably won't notice too much difference between shafts. If it's not even close to the proper fit, you'll know, but you're at a range where there are tons of options.

I know it's a rant, and there are others with differing opinions, but this is what I'm dealing with right now and I like to help out Giga players. They make good quality clubs and offer them cheap, I just wish they had the resources to offer live fittings and more options.

In My Bag:

Adams Super LS 9.5˚ driver, Aldila Phenom NL 65TX
Adams Super LS 15˚ fairway, Kusala black 72x
Adams Super LS 18˚ fairway, Aldila Rip'd NV 75TX
Adams Idea pro VST hybrid, 21˚, RIP Alpha 105x
Adams DHY 24˚, RIP Alpha 89x
5-PW Maltby TE irons, KBS C taper X, soft stepped once 130g
Mizuno T4, 54.9 KBS Wedge X
Mizuno R12 60.5, black nickel, KBS Wedge X
Odyssey Metal X #1 putter 
Bridgestone E5, Adidas samba bag, True Linkswear Stealth
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Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

At your distances, consider the True Temper Dynamic Gold S300, it's the standard shaft for most better/stronger players. You will also be able to find that shaft literally anywhere, every OEM offers in their irons at least as a custom option and it probably will never be taken off the market. The fitting system at Gigagolf is a bit off; I say they underestimate the stiffness one needs IMO. ...

... The DG shafts are heavier and lower launching, so they are more resilient in general compared to the light standard shafts. ...

... Hitting 180 with the 5 iron is enough power to use equipment that doesn't give you tons of help. Just be honest with yourself if you hit the 5 iron 180 every time you hit it solid or only on a perfect, hard shot. If it's a stretch to use that club from that range, don't succumb to machismo.

... I like to help out Giga players. They make good quality clubs and offer them cheap, I just wish they had the resources to offer live fittings...

Interesting remarks by LW. Here are more things to consider...

  • Since you appear to be fairly new to golf, consider getting a basic launch-monitor fitting. eBay/online might be a source for a club or two once you learn more about golf; but until then, find clubs in-person and let the fitters help you.
  • A good fitter will allow you to hit clubs with different shaft types and flexes to see which ones work best for you. Golf shops can get clubfitting carts from major clubmakers. The older carts contain a selection of intact clubs with different head and shaft combos, and newer carts allow the fitter to screw different shafts into different clubheads. Or, sometimes smaller custom clubmakers will have a selection of sample clubs to test hit.
  • The launch monitor can point you toward two or three shaft models/flexes which would work for you. Be aware that golfdom has no industry "standards" for different flexes. The DG S300 is a moderately stiff shaft, but a heavy shaft model (about 127 grams). The weight will slow down you clubhead speed somewhat. "...don't succumb to machismo." Launch monitor test might show that the DG R300 is better, or the DG S300 SL (superlight - only 106 grams) - stiffer, but lighter. Project X shafts tend to be stiffer than comparable TT-brand shafts, but weight about 10 grams less. Or, a non-TT shaft might be best for you.
  • Use these tests as a learning experience. You can ask the fitter questions on how clubs work. Also, you can do personal research on these sites.

* http://ralphmaltby.com/

* http://truetemper.com/golf/ (check out different shaft models and their characteristics)

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Focus, connect and follow through!

  • Completed KBS Education Seminar (online, 2015)
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Driver:  :touredge: EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  :callaway: Rogue 4W + 7W
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Thanks for all the info guys,

I would go to a fitter but I imagine that that would cost more than I want,

I will probably get a giga club set because of the great price.

I can get 180, according to the driving range off the tee, but I cannot quite get that off the deck so I am thinking I will go with the firm flex option.

My swing is also in a stage of extreme development right now so I want to leave room to progress.

If you guys had to choose a side to err on would you choose stiff or regular flex?

After today's trip to the range I decided that I need a few weeks to really test my own swing and figure out what my averages are.

I will probably get the clubs late next month, who knows, maybe I will win the lottery and be able to afford taylormade or ping, and not just their cheap twins

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If you're new to golf I'd go softer rather than stiffer.  Softer shafts and higher lofts encourage proper swing dynamics vs stiff and lower lofts.

Driver:  Callaway Diablo Octane 9.5*
3W:  Callaway GBB II 12.5*, 5W:  Callaway Diablo 18* Neutral
3H:  Callaway Razr X, 4H:  Callaway Razr X
5-PW:  Callaway X Tour
GW:  Callaway X Tour 54*, SW:  Callaway X Tour 58*
Putter:  Callaway ITrax, Scotty Cameron Studio Design 2, Ping Anser 4

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You should go with the softest shafts that you can still control.  Softer shafts allow you to swing easier and more in control but still get a good trajectory.  With stiff you will feel that you have to kill the ball just to load up the shaft properly and its going to hurt your swing and your confidence.

If at some point you find that you are hitting the ball too high and its ballooning on you, fine, go with stiff but for now Id go with a reg flex shaft.

Ebay is full of used sets of clubs from people who listed to their ego, bought stiffs only to realize later that they cant hit them.

Whats in my :sunmountain: C-130 cart bag?

Woods: :mizuno: JPX 850 9.5*, :mizuno: JPX 850 15*, :mizuno: JPX-850 19*, :mizuno: JPX Fli-Hi #4, :mizuno: JPX 800 Pro 5-PW, :mizuno: MP T-4 50-06, 54-09 58-10, :cleveland: Smart Square Blade and :bridgestone: B330-S

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Originally Posted by TitleistWI

You should go with the softest shafts that you can still control.  Softer shafts allow you to swing easier and more in control but still get a good trajectory.  With stiff you will feel that you have to kill the ball just to load up the shaft properly and its going to hurt your swing and your confidence.

If at some point you find that you are hitting the ball too high and its ballooning on you, fine, go with stiff but for now Id go with a reg flex shaft.

Ebay is full of used sets of clubs from people who listed to their ego, bought stiffs only to realize later that they cant hit them.

There's a used sports equipment store near me that always has a wide selection of hardly hit, usually forged (sorry... no Mizunos) irons with 6.5 and X flex shafts.  If not for a few blemishes, they could be sold for new.

:ping:

  • G400 - 9° /Alta CB 55 Stiff / G410-SFT - 16° /Project X 6.0S 85G / G410 - 20.5° /Tensei Orange 75S
  • G710 - 4 iron/SteelFiber i110cw Stiff • / i210 - 5 iron - UW / AWT 2.0 Stiff
  • Glide SS - 54° / CFS Wedge / Glide 2.0 SS - 58°/10 / KBS 120S / Hoofer - Black

:scotty_cameron: - Select Squareback / 35"  -  :titleist: - Pro V1 / White  -  :clicgear: - 3.5+ / White

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I think most of the previous replies answered your question. My swing speed is also right on the division line. The fitter recommended x-stiff for my irons as my tempo is quicker with them.  This is probably a bad thing. A fast tempo can have a tremendous effect on the club spine despite the actual speed of your irons. To be frank, I haven't seen a lot of difference between the stiff and X-stiff with my irons.   The same fitter recommended stiff with my driver. My swing tempo is slower with the longer club. The launch monitor numbers also said stiff and guess what, I hit that driver just fine.  The safest bet is to be professionally evaluated of hit some balls with each.

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Sorry to intercept the thread here but I had a question about shaft flex.

I recently switched over from a uniflex shaft to a PX 6.0 shaft on my irons (they fitted me with it), I could not tell you what my swing specs are.  Anywho out on the course today I was hitting my irons into a medium headwind. The ball ballooned on me on all my shots going into the wind, and it wasn't just a 10 yard difference, I was dropping down a club (like I always do playing into the wind) and was still coming up a club or two short. Is this normal for PX shafts, are they too stiff?

Driver: RBZ 9.5° Stiff

Woods: :nike:VR_S Tour 2.0 15° Stiff

Hybrids:  910H 21° Stiff

Irons: 4-GW Pro Black CB1 with Project X rifle 6.0

Wedges:CC Jaws 56°.14° 60°.08°

Putter: Classic 1

Ball:  Z-Star XV Pure White

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Are they flighted?

Originally Posted by mosnas

Sorry to intercept the thread here but I had a question about shaft flex.

I recently switched over from a uniflex shaft to a PX 6.0 shaft on my irons (they fitted me with it), I could not tell you what my swing specs are.  Anywho out on the course today I was hitting my irons into a medium headwind. The ball ballooned on me on all my shots going into the wind, and it wasn't just a 10 yard difference, I was dropping down a club (like I always do playing into the wind) and was still coming up a club or two short. Is this normal for PX shafts, are they too stiff?

Joe Paradiso

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Rifle project x Flighted rifle according to the Adams site

Driver: RBZ 9.5° Stiff

Woods: :nike:VR_S Tour 2.0 15° Stiff

Hybrids:  910H 21° Stiff

Irons: 4-GW Pro Black CB1 with Project X rifle 6.0

Wedges:CC Jaws 56°.14° 60°.08°

Putter: Classic 1

Ball:  Z-Star XV Pure White

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Too stiff - lower flight, shorter distance.

I disagree about dispersion - if too stiff, it will not be tight - you will fight your normal swing and attempt to force the ball up in the air or longer - this will lead to dispersion all over the place and your swing will go to hell.

That is the sad reality.

Ping G400 Max 9/TPT Shaft, TEE EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd, PXG 22 HY, Mizuno JPX919F 5-GW, TItleist SM7 Raw 55-09, 59-11, Bettinardi BB39

 

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My swing speed is good for reg flex,...but i play S300 stiff shafts in my irons and woods and couldt care less if ive lost a club of distance with each club,......just club the hell up for any given distance!!!

i prefer shot control and accuracy than distance,......its ironic the only club i hit crap in my bag is my driver which is reg flex :S

but its all down to yoruself and ball striking and what feels best,

:tmade: Driver: TM Superfast 2.0 - 9.5degree - Reg flex
:mizuno: 3 Wood: JPX800 - 16* Exhsar5 Stiff
:mizuno: 3 - PW: MP-67 Cut Muscle back - S300 stiff
:slazenger: Sand Wedge: 54degree, 12degree bounce
:slazenger: Lob Wedge: 60degree 10degree bounce
:ping: Putter: Karsten 1959 Anser 2 Toe weighted
:mizuno: Bag - Cart Style

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Originally Posted by carpediem4300

My swing speed is good for reg flex,...but i play S300 stiff shafts in my irons and woods and couldt care less if ive lost a club of distance with each club,......just club the hell up for any given distance!!!

i prefer shot control and accuracy than distance,......its ironic the only club i hit crap in my bag is my driver which is reg flex :S

but its all down to yoruself and ball striking and what feels best,

Clubbing up is only going to make you hit the ball even lower.  Not good if you need to carry water, rough or a bunker.  It all comes down to proper clubfitting, not what, "feels" best.  Feel is a subjective thing.  A launch monitor doesnt lie.

Whats in my :sunmountain: C-130 cart bag?

Woods: :mizuno: JPX 850 9.5*, :mizuno: JPX 850 15*, :mizuno: JPX-850 19*, :mizuno: JPX Fli-Hi #4, :mizuno: JPX 800 Pro 5-PW, :mizuno: MP T-4 50-06, 54-09 58-10, :cleveland: Smart Square Blade and :bridgestone: B330-S

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I'd always recommend going in and getting fit by a pro on a monitor, they can help with the small details of finding the right shaft flex and type.

Driver: Machspeed Black 9.5  

3 wood:  Insight  

Hybrid:   A4  19 degree

Irons:   CG red 4-PW  

Wedges:   CG12  56 degree and CG10 60 degree

Putter:  White Hot XG Sabertooth

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From the Project X website:

Project X Flighted
In addition to the playing characteristics that have made the Project X shaft a tour favorite, the Project X Flighted features an exaggerated change in kick point within each shaft throughout the set to optimize ball flight through the bag. Long irons provide a lower kick point for higher ball flight, easier launch and greater distance, while the short irons have a higher kick point for a lower trajectory, greater accuracy and control.

Originally Posted by mosnas

Rifle project x Flighted rifle according to the Adams site

Joe Paradiso

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Note: This thread is 2961 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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