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2012 HP Byron Nelson Championship Discussion Thread

mvmac

By mvmac,
in Tour Talk

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brocks Great Member

brocks

Jason Dufner old school throwback must have ice in his veins possibly the mentally toughest player on tour

I realize that it's bad form to bring up results more than a few weeks old, but this is the guy who blew a five shot lead over the last four holes of last year's PGA. He now has two wins, one against a third tier field, and one against a fourth tier field. That's pretty good, but it's a little thin to crown him the toughest player on tour. Let's at least wait until he wins against a strong field.

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wolfsburg2 Well Established Member

wolfsburg2

Originally Posted by brocks

I realize that it's bad form to bring up results more than a few weeks old, but this is the guy who blew a five shot lead over the last four holes of last year's PGA. He now has two wins, one against a third tier field, and one against a fourth tier field. That's pretty good, but it's a little thin to crown him the toughest player on tour. Let's at least wait until he wins against a strong field.

I think the field this weekend was pretty stout.

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brocks Great Member

brocks

I think the field this weekend was pretty stout.

You can think what you like, but an objective indication of the field's strength is how many WGR points the winner gets (which is determined by the world rankings of the players in the field), and Dufner only got 38. That is the second lowest for a regular PGA event this year. The only one that had a weaker field was the Valero Texas Open (Puerto Rico and Mayakoba were also lower, but they are alternate events, played the same week as WGCs). For comparison, Fowler got 58 points for winning Quail Hollow, and Rose got 78 points for winning at Doral. If you're wondering about my tiers, I put the majors, Players, and WGCs in the top tier, the FedEx Playoffs and elite invitationals (like Quail Hollow, the Memorial, and Bay Hill) in the second tier, events worth 40-55 points in the third tier, and events worth 25-39 points in the fourth tier.

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wolfsburg2 Well Established Member

wolfsburg2

I concede boss, you have put more thought into this if you have your own tour event ranking system made up lol.

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Mr. Desmond Super Member

Mr. Desmond

Originally Posted by wolfsburg2

I concede boss, you have put more thought into this if you have your own tour event ranking system made up lol.

Since Byron died, the Nelson hasn't had a decent field in years. This was one of the better fields, believe it or not, in a few years. Players don't like the course even with the re-design. They renovated the course at the beginning of the recession after real estate had fallen, and the owners did not want to spend too much money. They should have blown up the course and started over. Instead, they took a short term approach to a long term problem. The Nelson field will always suck, at least until they finally blow up or move the course.

It's a pity, really because it's a good family stop for players with major league baseball, AA baseball, soccer, and kid's activities, and Dallas is beginning to have an interesting nightlife.

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MEfree Great Member

MEfree

Have to agree with Brocks that this wasn`t a really strong field- it was nice to see a handful of elite players tee it up, but anytime there are a bunch of guys playing out of the Past Champions category, you know it is not the strongest top to bottom.

As Brocks pointed out, the OWGR points awarded give an indication of field strength, but this is not always perfect.  I mean really, should Dufner get fewer points than the 44 points Tiger got for winning his own 18 man tournament during the silly season?  Certainly it has to be tougher to beat 100+ pros in a field that includes

1 1 USA Jason Dufner -11 F -3 color info 67 66 69 67 269
+ T7 14 4 USA Phil Mickelson -6 F -4 color info 70 69 69 66 274
+ T15 7 6 USA Matt Kuchar -4 F E color info 66 68 72 70 276
+ T24 16 19 USA Keegan Bradley -2 F 2 color info 67 68 71 72 278
+ T41 13 23 RSA Ernie Els 1 F 2 color info 70 69 70 72 281
+ T9 19 25 USA Robert Garrigus -5 F -4 color info 71 70 68 66 275
+ T19 9 27 USA D.A. Points -3 F -2 color info 68 69 72 68 277
+ T24 4 32 USA John Rollins -2 F -1 color info 71 67 71 69 278

rather than beating just 17 other guys (even if they are the top players in the world)

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MEfree Great Member

MEfree

Here is a comparison of the OWGR points awarded this week vs. week 49 of 2011

http://www.owgr.com/events/events_scorecard.sps?EventID=4973

http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2011/Week49/owgr49w2011.pdf

Keegan got less than 2 points for being 9 shots back of Dufner yesterday (in t24, beating over 100 guys) but received 3.74 points in Tiger`s event when he was 20 shots back and beat only 1 other competitor.   In Tiger`s event, Paul Casey was 5 back and got 17.6 points while Phil only got 6.46 points for being 5 back this week.  Kuchar finished 6 back in Tiger`s event and got almost 12 points, but 7 back yesterday was worth less than 4 to him (and the guys 2 back got less than 11).

For finishing last in Tiger`s event (21 shots back) and last in the 12 man Nedbank Challenge held the same week (24 shots back) Nick Watney and Darren Clark each received 2.4 points, while guys 13 shots back and in the top half of the field received 0 points at the Nelson.  I could go on, but imagine that everyone gets the idea.

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Mr. Desmond Super Member

Mr. Desmond

Personally, I think they ought to give the Nelson extra points because of their charitable work - it once contributed 10% of the Tour's contributions to Charity.

More points may lead to a better field... more people at event ... more to charity.

But heck, I'd put the first millions into a new course...

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brocks Great Member

brocks

As Brocks pointed out, the OWGR points awarded give an indication of field strength, but this is not always perfect.  I mean really, should Dufner get fewer points than the 44 points Tiger got for winning his own 18 man tournament during the silly season?  Certainly it has to be tougher to beat 100+ pros in a field that includes  ... rather than beating just 17 other guys (even if they are the top players in the world)

Yeah, the method they use works for comparing fields of equal size, but they need to deduct points for smaller fields. The example I always use is the WGC's -- they typically have most of the top 70-odd players in the world, so they get a ton of points. The WGC Cadillac was worth 78 points this year, only two less than the full-field Players. It seems obvious that adding more players to the field will make it harder to win, but it's not obvious that it would make it twice as hard, since most of the extra players, even in majors, are ranked outside the top 100, or are amateurs, or club pros, or past champions way past their prime, etc. But during his period of dominance, Tiger won a little over 30% of the majors he played, while he won something over 60% of the stroke play WGCs he played.

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