Is it really an eagle?

[Dave2512]

I agree, they always have trouble at typical long drive distances, and/or right around the green.

"Good" short 4's are usually the very FUN holes where you need to 'think' a bit rather than just grab driver/wedge.....

Yes my eagle and birdie opportunities usually aren't on the unusually short holes but the vanilla holes that don't present much of a challenge. There is a 282 yd par 4 at my former home course. In two years I have never seen anyone drive the green. The rise in elevation is so much I rarely see men even get it close to the green. There is a split in the fairway with some bunkers and rough about 90ish yards from the green and it's uncommon to see men hit it past that. I've seen short hitters barely clear the 150 markers with a driver. I averaged over par on that hole in 2013, didn't make one birdie on it all year.