Brandel Chamblee (Again) Calls for Tiger to Ditch Sean Foley

[johnstew]

I'm not really sure how I feel about this. But some supporting evidence of this is when the camera showed Tiger Woods on the practice range with a glove underneath his armpit. When I saw that I was like how is one of the best golfers in the world worrying about his mechanics on the last day before the Open Championship final round. I just thought it was weird. If I was him I would of just been trying to get comfortable hit the shots I want to hit for the day or maybe he should of practiced his putting more seeing as how he doesn't seem to make any putts anymore. All I know is the glove underneath the armpit is early midweek practice stuff not Saturday Sunday stuff on the weekend of a major!!!!

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by johnstew

I'm not really sure how I feel about this. But some supporting evidence of this is when the camera showed Tiger Woods on the practice range with a glove underneath his armpit. When I saw that I was like how is one of the best golfers in the world worrying about his mechanics on the last day before the Open Championship final round. I just thought it was weird. If I was him I would of just been trying to get comfortable hit the shots I want to hit for the day or maybe he should of practiced his putting more seeing as how he doesn't seem to make any putts anymore. All I know is the glove underneath the armpit is early midweek practice stuff not Saturday Sunday stuff on the weekend of a major!!!!

Vijay does it all the time - the glove thing. If that's all Tiger is doing, it's not a big deal. But it takes a few years to undo past habits - so it's not unusual for Tiger to be working on swing mechanics. It would be unusual for him not to be working on them. It takes time.

[brocks]

He did not win. The strategy was apparently -- not perfect.

You can lose with a perfect strategy if your execution is off. Believe me, I know.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by brocks

You can lose with a perfect strategy if your execution is off. Believe me, I know.

Of course you can.

I think it was great strategy for poor weather, and he would have probably won with poor weather. But the weather was great -- you've got to be flexible. There was no reason to believe he would have landed in the fairway bunkers with an occasional fairway wood along with his long irons. He knows his lengths with the fairway woods and knew where the bunkers were positioned. Fairways are more accurate than drivers.

There appears to be some general assumption that you're either for or against someone. If you pan them, you're against them. I don't do that. I like to comment in a unbiased way. I like to watch great golf and I like to watch Tiger play golf. But it's no sin to say, "I think he could have been more flexible in his plan."

[bigoak]

Congratulations on all your victories.  And your attack on my logic.  I will type this very slow for you.  Winning tournaments doesn't make you a teacher.  Just like opening a can of gravy doesn't make you a chef.  The flaw in logic is that only tournament winners can be good teachers.  To be a good teacher, one has to analyze the skills of the student and prescribe appropiately.  When looking for a golf teacher and you see all students being taught from the same recipe book, run like hell.  If the preceeding logic were true, Tiger Woods could teach Brandle Chamblee to be a top 5 golfer.  THat will never happen.  The skill levels of all are not the same.  Tiger Woods is a more talented athlete.

If Woods is on the practising with a glove early in the tournament, then this is practice.  If its Sunday then the teaching never occured.  The material was covered but mastery was not acquired so teaching didn't occur.  When Woods is "thinkin" about how to hit the fade, then this was covered and not taught.  Bubba doesn't stop and think how to hit a fade.

My point about using props; sticks, strings, hulahoops, beachballs for all students shows ingnorance by the "teacher" regardling the way all people learn.  Less than 50% of the population can process this way.  again if its out of the can, then you have a line cook and not a chef.

[jamo]

Congratulations on all your victories.  And your attack on my logic.  I will type this very slow for you.  Winning tournaments doesn't make you a teacher.  Just like opening a can of gravy doesn't make you a chef.  The flaw in logic is that only tournament winners can be good teachers.  To be a good teacher, one has to analyze the skills of the student and prescribe appropiately.

Brandel's not actually a teacher at all. He's an analyst. He was a mediocre PGA Tour player and had no experience teaching people golf.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by bigoak

Congratulations on all your victories.  And your attack on my logic.  I will type this very slow for you.  Winning tournaments doesn't make you a teacher.  Just like opening a can of gravy doesn't make you a chef.  The flaw in logic is that only tournament winners can be good teachers.  To be a good teacher, one has to analyze the skills of the student and prescribe appropiately.  When looking for a golf teacher and you see all students being taught from the same recipe book, run like hell.  If the preceeding logic were true, Tiger Woods could teach Brandle Chamblee to be a top 5 golfer.  THat will never happen.  The skill levels of all are not the same.  Tiger Woods is a more talented athlete.

If Woods is on the practising with a glove early in the tournament, then this is practice.  If its Sunday then the teaching never occured.  The material was covered but mastery was not acquired so teaching didn't occur.  When Woods is "thinkin" about how to hit the fade, then this was covered and not taught.  Bubba doesn't stop and think how to hit a fade.

My point about using props; sticks, strings, hulahoops, beachballs for all students shows ingnorance by the "teacher" regardling the way all people learn.  Less than 50% of the population can process this way.  again if its out of the can, then you have a line cook and not a chef.

Boy you've really stepped in the dog droppings here.

Obviously you are a nature vs nurture person. That's fine but that's black and white and the world does not work that way. As Erik has said, Tiger knows what works best for him. Also, he's been forced to change his swing by a bad knee. And last, you are making a boat load of assumptions about how Foley teaches and how he and Tiger interact. You should quit while you are behind. Erik will eat you alive.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bigoak

Congratulations on all your victories.  And your attack on my logic.  I will type this very slow for you.  Winning tournaments doesn't make you a teacher.

Hey, you're the one that brought it up. I know all of that. I'm not sure why you felt the need to say what you did just now, but...

As for responding to the rest of your stuff, and except to point out that Bubba didn't beat Tiger Woods at the 2012 British Open, well, I think MSchott said plenty, and I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by MSchott

Obviously you are a nature vs nurture person. That's fine but that's black and white and the world does not work that way. As Erik has said, Tiger knows what works best for him. Also, he's been forced to change his swing by a bad knee. And last, you are making a boat load of assumptions about how Foley teaches and how he and Tiger interact. You should quit while you are behind. Erik will eat you alive.

[utztech]

It has been a surprise to me how much the analysts criticize what Tiger is doing, rather than analyze why he might be doing it.  They start from the position that what Tiger is doing is wrong, rather than ask themselves why the greatest or 2nd greatest player of all time is doing these things.

For example, here is my analysis: The only way he keeps his motivation and competitive drive is by having something big to work on, hence the continual swing changes.

As for Chamblee, I can't stand him.  He is paid to have an opinion, but when it comes to Tiger it always sound personal to me.  He has a lot of venom in his voice when he talks about Tiger.

[brocks]

As for Chamblee, I can't stand him.  He is paid to have an opinion, but when it comes to Tiger it always sound personal to me.  He has a lot of venom in his voice when he talks about Tiger.

Yeah, I don't know what his problem is with Tiger, but I think it must be personal. Based on the Tiger vs Jack threads on this and other boards, I'd estimate that less than 10% of golf fans hate Tiger so much that they openly say they will never consider him #1 of all time, even if he wins 20 majors. But that's exactly what Chamblee said a few months ago.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by brocks

Yeah, I don't know what his problem is with Tiger, but I think it must be personal.

Maybe he has a hot wife that Tiger 'spent time' with off the course. :p

[Chico1972]

sEVE HAD BACK PROBLEMS AND WAS NEVER THE SAME AFTER THE BACK ISSUES.

[Chico1972]

Nothing wrong with training aids, we are understand the golf swing a little different, teaching aids are used to help a student a sequence of events of moves, to say training aids are stupid just means you don't understanding teaching concepts, golfers come in different levels, a good teacher will understand that and teach to a golfers level.no two swings are alike

[bigoak]

I've read repeatedly that Chamblee cannot say anything because he is not a winner of many tournaments.  My point is that the better teachers are also not winners of many tournaments.  The teaching skill is communication and not just props.  Erik know exactly what I am talking about.  Tiger Woods problem is with wedges and putter.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bigoak

I've read repeatedly that Chamblee cannot say anything because he is not a winner of many tournaments.  My point is that the better teachers are also not winners of many tournaments.  The teaching skill is communication and not just props.  Erik know exactly what I am talking about.  Tiger Woods problem is with wedges and putter.

The thing is: Brandel isn't an instructor, either. And from what we can tell he doesn't ever actually talk to Tiger or Sean or someone who might know, he just criticizes from his studio.

Tiger's putter is okay now, but I agree, his wedges need sharpening.

[bigoak]

I totally agree.  I believe that analysis preceeds the teaching aids.  Any program without analysis is gravey out of the can.

[bigoak]

You and I agree.  I don't know what makes writers think I have stepped into the poop and that you are really going to tear me up.  There is some degree of fantasy at work.  I know nothing of your program and would have no reason to say anything negative about it.  I know nothing of Floley's program.  But I do know that if student is still practising drills on sunday that mastery has not been achieved.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bigoak

You and I agree.  I don't know what makes writers think I have stepped into the poop and that you are really going to tear me up.  There is some degree of fantasy at work.  I know nothing of your program and would have no reason to say anything negative about it.  I know nothing of Floley's program.  But I do know that if student is still practising drills on sunday that mastery has not been achieved.

I don't know that I'd call a glove under your armpit as a drill. It's a subconscious reminder of sorts. I know of a few PGA Tour players who fold their shirt and tuck it into their armpit for similar reasons and they do this in every round they play.

It's not like he had a training aid out there, was filming himself, whatever.