Roses are red...

[zipazoid]

Modell is dead.

Go Browns.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Modell is dead.

Go Browns.

Hahahaha.  I just told my family that Modell had died and my wife asked who he was and I explained what he had done to the people of Cleveland and that there probably would be a lot of people who would not mourn - but celebrate - his passing.

Thank you for not disappointing me.

RTR... Roll Tide Roll and Run Trent Run.

[zipazoid]

I hear a lot from Raven fans, who obviously adore Modell, that we Browns fans need to get over it. The only thing I say back to them is two words - Bob Irsay. They should be the last group of people dictating to anyone how they should feel about a traitor. He ripped our hearts out...for money. In a business where making money is damn near guaranteed, he lost money. A lot of it. He was a horrible businessman who took a storied franchise that had won 7 championships in 18 years, fired a legendary coach, won one stinking championship in 1964...and ran it into the ground to the point that he had to move it for the money.

In a perfect world, the Colts would be in Baltimore, the Browns (the old Browns) would be in Cleveland & Indianapolis would be sitting there trying to root for a hapless group of future truck drivers who habitually lose. But no. Browns fans got handed that, and we didn't deserve it. Every ten-plus loss season we have racked up since 1999, you can thank Modell.

I wish comfort to those that loved him, but that's as far as my charity goes.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I hear a lot from Raven fans, who obviously adore Modell, that we Browns fans need to get over it. The only thing I say back to them is two words - Bob Irsay. They should be the last group of people dictating to anyone how they should feel about a traitor. He ripped our hearts out...for money. In a business where making money is damn near guaranteed, he lost money. A lot of it. He was a horrible businessman who took a storied franchise that had won 7 championships in 18 years, fired a legendary coach, won one stinking championship in 1964...and ran it into the ground to the point that he had to move it for the money.

In a perfect world, the Colts would be in Baltimore, the Browns (the old Browns) would be in Cleveland & Indianapolis would be sitting there trying to root for a hapless group of future truck drivers who habitually lose. But no. Browns fans got handed that, and we didn't deserve it. Every ten-plus loss season we have racked up since 1999, you can thank Modell.

I wish comfort to those that loved him, but that's as far as my charity goes.

Sounds like Bill Simmons may be right, then, when he says God hates Cleveland.

[David in FL]

Not a Browns fan, hell, I've been to Cleveland :~( but I absolutely understand the sentiment!

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Sounds like Bill Simmons may be right, then, when he says God hates Cleveland.

You have no idea. Nineteen-sixty-four. Cleveland's last championship in any sport.

You talk Indians, and you get two outs from winning the World Series in 1997 & Jose Mesa gakked.

You talk Cavs, and you get LeBron.

And you talk Browns, and you get Red Right 88 (Google it) The Drive, The Fumble...and The Move.

I have often wondered what deity we apparently gave the collective finger to, to deserve this. Our only hope is the curse died with Modell.

[Chilli Dipper]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

You have no idea. Nineteen-sixty-four. Cleveland's last championship in any sport.

You talk Indians, and you get two outs from winning the World Series in 1997 & Jose Mesa gakked.

You talk Cavs, and you get LeBron.

And you talk Browns, and you get Red Right 88 (Google it) The Drive, The Fumble...and The Move.

I have often wondered what deity we apparently gave the collective finger to, to deserve this. Our only hope is the curse died with Modell.

You're forgetting Cleveland's old NHL team, which was so bad that they're the only major-league sports team since the 1950s to go out of business.

[Clubchucker]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Every ten-plus loss season we have racked up since 1999, you can thank Modell.

No offense (since I'm not a Browns or Ravens fan), while I can fully understand your resentment of Modell....how long can Browns fans continue to blame him for their losing?  I mean they've been back in the league for what...13 years now?  First 5 or so...sure.  Blame him.  Hate him for leaving forever.  I get that.  But after awhile the blame for losing has to be directed at current ownership.

I will say that Cleveland sports fan have had it rough.  The Browns thing, the Indians going from the penthouse to the outhouse, the LeBron thing....can't be easy.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Clubchucker

No offense (since I'm not a Browns or Ravens fan), while I can fully understand your resentment of Modell....how long can Browns fans continue to blame him for their losing?  I mean they've been back in the league for what...13 years now?  First 5 or so...sure.  Blame him.  Hate him for leaving forever.  I get that.  But after awhile the blame for losing has to be directed at current ownership.

I will say that Cleveland sports fan have had it rough.  The Browns thing, the Indians going from the penthouse to the outhouse, the LeBron thing....can't be easy.

You have a point, and hopefully the new ownership under Jimmy Haslam will change all that.

Here's the thing, and why I blame Modell. The first is real simple. Look at the Ravens - that's our team . Whatever they've done since 1996 should be Cleveland Browns accomplishments, including the 2000 Supr Bowl win. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Ray Rice...they should be Cleveland Browns.

Re the floundering around since the return in 1999. Much of the blame has to do with who was in charge - Carmen Policy who is nothing but a snake-oil salesman, and our first GM - Dwight Clark. Yeah. The same guy that made 'The Catch' from Montana. Totally over his head as a GM. That started a revolving door in the front office, then went through such names as Butch Davis (GM and Head Coach), Romeo Crennel, Phil Savage, Eric Mangini, George Kokinis blah blah.

But the only reason we were put into that mess the first place was Modell moving the team. That doesn't happen, none of the other stuff happens.

And honestly, I had totally forgotten about Modell. He was, in essence, dead to me long before he officially expired Wednesday. But his death has reminded & rekindled just what he did to us and the city of Cleveland. It has made me ponder what could have been. Cleveland is a football town . Lemme put it this way - If the Indians ever win a World Series, they'll have a nice parade. If the Cavs ever win the NBA championship, they'll have a nice parade. When (hehe) the Browns win a Super Bowl, Cleveland will burn. The national guard will be called in. Count on it.

There's a reason the pro football hall of fame is in northeast Ohio. The NFL started there. Football is in our blood, in our DNA. My earliest recollection as a kid is sitting on my dad's lap watching the Browns destroy the Steelers, and any other team in our path, for that matter. We were good, consistently good. Modell took this Cadillac of a franchise, turned it into a Yugo, then moved it when he couldn't suck any more money out of it to cover his incompetence.

[boogielicious]

That was a tough time for Cleveland and LeBron didn't help.  I'm just worried that Goodell will do the same to some other city just to move a team to LA.  LA has had two chances and blow them both.

The Browns can recover, but they need to have consistency of coaching and some elite players to get back in contention.  They are in a very tough division.

[Clubchucker]

Well zipazoid, with all you've said as a Clevelander (which I'm sure you're not alone) it will be interesting to see what the reaction is at the game.  Just read an article where the Browns will pay tribute to Modell this weekend.  I've been to a couple of Browns games at the old Memorial Stadium and as an outsider..."compassionate" doesn't really describe what I remember from old time Browns fans.  :)

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

You have a point, and hopefully the new ownership under Jimmy Haslam will change all that.

Here's the thing, and why I blame Modell. The first is real simple. Look at the Ravens - that's our team. Whatever they've done since 1996 should be Cleveland Browns accomplishments, including the 2000 Supr Bowl win. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Ray Rice...they should be Cleveland Browns.

Re the floundering around since the return in 1999. Much of the blame has to do with who was in charge - Carmen Policy who is nothing but a snake-oil salesman, and our first GM - Dwight Clark. Yeah. The same guy that made 'The Catch' from Montana. Totally over his head as a GM. That started a revolving door in the front office, then went through such names as Butch Davis (GM and Head Coach), Romeo Crennel, Phil Savage, Eric Mangini, George Kokinis blah blah.

But the only reason we were put into that mess the first place was Modell moving the team. That doesn't happen, none of the other stuff happens.

And honestly, I had totally forgotten about Modell. He was, in essence, dead to me long before he officially expired Wednesday. But his death has reminded & rekindled just what he did to us and the city of Cleveland. It has made me ponder what could have been. Cleveland is a football town. Lemme put it this way - If the Indians ever win a World Series, they'll have a nice parade. If the Cavs ever win the NBA championship, they'll have a nice parade. When (hehe) the Browns win a Super Bowl, Cleveland will burn. The national guard will be called in. Count on it.

There's a reason the pro football hall of fame is in northeast Ohio. The NFL started there. Football is in our blood, in our DNA. My earliest recollection as a kid is sitting on my dad's lap watching the Browns destroy the Steelers, and any other team in our path, for that matter. We were good, consistently good. Modell took this Cadillac of a franchise, turned it into a Yugo, then moved it when he couldn't suck any more money out of it to cover his incompetence.

I understand your hatred of Modell but you can't say that Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Ray Rice along with the 2000 superbowl would all be in Cleveland. If the team was still in Cleveland who knows what drafts picks would have been made or who the coaches/gm would have been. The city of Cleveland didn't do you any favors either because they were in need of a new stadium that the city refused to build and believe or not that hurts the wallet quite a bit in the nfl. You can look a the forbes article about the value of nfl franchises every teams with a new stadium is towards the top because of suites and seat licenses. Also living in Baltimore there are also quite a few people who never liked Modell because he screwed the city out of a team twice so he could move the Browns to get the new stadium that was already funded. Regardless I know how you feel since I had to deal with Al Davis forever but Al wanted to win the game just passed him by years ago. Here's to the future...

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

I understand your hatred of Modell but you can't say that Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Ray Rice along with the 2000 superbowl would all be in Cleveland. If the team was still in Cleveland who knows what drafts picks would have been made or who the coaches/gm would have been. The city of Cleveland didn't do you any favors either because they were in need of a new stadium that the city refused to build and believe or not that hurts the wallet quite a bit in the nfl. You can look a the forbes article about the value of nfl franchises every teams with a new stadium is towards the top because of suites and seat licenses. Also living in Baltimore there are also quite a few people who never liked Modell because he screwed the city out of a team twice so he could move the Browns to get the new stadium that was already funded. Regardless I know how you feel since I had to deal with Al Davis forever but Al wanted to win the game just passed him by years ago. Here's to the future...

Modell insisted he had to move the team in order to 'keep it in the family'. A couple of years later, in Baltimore, he started selling off the team to Bisciotti. Bisciotti is not part of his family. All Modell had to do was sell a chunk of the team to Al Lerner, when Lerner offered it, and it would have stayed in Cleveland.

You have a point about Lewis, Reed, etc. I am grafting what happened in Baltimore over to what 'would have happened' in Cleveland. It's possible it could have turned out differently, but dammit. When Modell hoisted that Super Bowl trophy in 2000 I felt sick to my stomach.

Re the City not helping out, that's a story in itself. The original plan was to build a mutli-purpose park for both the Browns & Indians at the site where the Indians now play, but Modell rejected it. He wanted his own stadium at the same site a Muni Stadium. There's a lot of history there, but yes, the City did say no to Modell's request of a football-only stadium. After he left, the City then approved one. Certainly the City is not blameless.

But the bottom line is, Modell lied. He didn't have to move the team.