Help Hitting Wedges

[johnclayton1982]

All,

Getting frustrated, thought I'd post to see if someone can help me.  My game is going really well, but my wedge play from 120 and in is really inconsistant.  Through a workout routine, practice and a recent fitting my driver has really improved, and I am routinely hitting it 260-280 off the tee.  I am also stuck in the low eighties.  I almost never shoot a round over 85 or below 80 these days, as my wedge play has gone to hell.  These are from clean lies in the fairway.  I started tracking my rounds and was appalled at how bad my wedge game is.  For example, on saturday, I tracked my round real close to see just how bad my wedges are hurting me:

HOLE 1, PAR 5:  75 YARDS IN 2 SHOTS.  LW OVER THE GREEN.  MADE 7.

HOLE 2, PAR 3:  8 IRON, GIR PAR

HOLE 3, PAR 4:  102 TO PIN FROM RIGHT ROUGH, HIT TO 6 FEET, PAR

HOLE 4, PAR 3:  5 IRON, GIR PAR

HOLE 5, PAR 5:  ON IN 2, BIRDIE

HOLE 6, PAR 4:  94 TO PIN FROM FW, FAT WEDGE 60 FEET SHORT, CHIP&3 PUTT, DOUBLE

HOLE 7, PAR 3:  6 IRON, GIR PAR

HOLE 8, PAR 4:  7 IRON FROM ROUGH, GIR PAR

HOLE 9, PAR 5:  72 LEFT IN FW AFTER 2.  WEDGE INTO FRONT BUNKER.  BOGEY.

FRONT 9 40   (+3 all on holes in FW w/n 100 yards).

HOLE 10, PAR 4: SMASHED DRIVE (297).  85 LEFT FROM MIDDLE OF FAIRWAY.  YANKED WEDGE LEFT ON COLLAR.  CHIP/PUTT PAR.

HOLE 11, PAR 3: 6 IRON GIR, PAR.

HOLE 12, PAR 4: 8 IRON GIR, PAR.

HOLE 13, PAR 4: SMASHED DRIVE (286). 102 LEFT FROM MIDDLE OF FAIRWAY, HIT 15 YARDS OVER GREEN.  BOGEY.

HOLE 14, PAR 5: 105 IN FW FOR 3RD, PUSHED RIGHT OF GREEN, BOGEY.

HOLE 15, PAR 3: 6 IRON MISS SHORT, CHIP/PUTT PAR

HOLE 16 PAR 4: 8 IRON GIR, PAR.

HOLE 17 PAR 4: 72 LEFT AFTER DRIVE.  CHUNKED LW TO 30. THINNED WEDGE FROM 30 OVER BACK.  MADE 6.

HOLE 18 PAR 5 (REALLY LONG): 7 IRON 3RD INTO GREEN, MISSED SHORT, BOGEY.

BACK 9 41  (+4 on holes in FW w/n 100 yards).

For an 81 that felt like shoulda been a 76 the way I hit the other clubs.

The trouble started when a pro recommended I strengthen my grip in my long game - and that has done wonders for that part of my game, making my hybrids, 3 wood and driver not slice and really go far.  The issue is that since I did that the wedges have gone to heck.  I have no idea what I'm even supposed to be doing.  I've read you should have a seperate grip for the wedges (Pelz) or the same grip as long game (Stockton).  I've read your supposed to be totally mechincal (i.e have a 63 yard swing) or use the same club and focus on the target rather than technique.  Its gotten to the point that I don't even know what grip I'm supposed to be using, and routinely can't help having thoughts on the backswing like "please don't shank this".  I have no confidence w/n 100 yards.  I've also tried tons of equipment changes - fat grips (which helped my long clubs), thin grips, have a set of sm4s, got fitted for wedges, have a set of CG15s, and ordered my "iron set" wedges which have more forgiveness.

My short game is pretty good (bunker/chipping/pitching) but I would rather have almost any shot than an "easy" 100 yard wedge in the middle of the fairway.  Interestingly enough, I do not have much trouble if I'm in the rough - my wedge do pretty good from there.  But when its "easy" in the fairway I can't seem to get my head around it.  I'm at my wit's end and have considered going to a five hybrid off the tee so I never have to hit a wedge (seriously).  I get really nervous when I have one of these shots in front of people - with driver etc... I can't wait for my turn because I am confident but when I have a 90 yard wedge shot I just want to dig a hole and hide.  No idea what to do with the shot, no confidence in grip, backswing, stance, or where the ball is going.

It is driving me crazy because I "should" have birdie chances and be threatening 75 instead of struggling to stay under 85.

I'm not sure if anyone has any thoughts on fixing this.  I think its mostly mental, but maybe physical too.  I am desperate for help to get some sort of confidence and / or normalcy in this part of my game.  Has anyone else had a part of their game just go haywire while the rest stays solid?

Anyway, any advice is very, very welcome.  I feel like if I can develop even an average wedge game for a 7 hdcp I can get under hdcp 5.

-john

[TakeItOnTheChin]

I carry only three clubs for all shots under 150 yds, a 7&9 iron and a standard SW. I use the SW only when the ball must go high otherwise I use 7&9 iron for everything. I'm not that long but I'm deadly from 150yds and under.

[johnwayne]

OK I'm the last person to give advice to someone who is playing as well as you are.  I'm a 27 handicap.  But gonna give it a try, it helped me in my short game some.

1. Read and practiced Pelz's book.

2. Played an Executive course from the womens tees alot.  Made sense in that most of these shots are from 100 yards and in, gave me a lot of time to work on these shots.

3. After reading and practicing Pelz's formula worked on just feeling the distance and swung to the distance.

If none of the above are feasible, play a practice round of golf on a weekday afternoon and forget about the driver and irons and just walk or drive up and play from 100 yards and closer.  Hope this helps and again I know I'm the last person to give advice to someone playing as well as you.

Remember the only thought over these short game shots is execution, nothing else.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

The trouble started when a pro recommended I strengthen my grip in my long game - and that has done wonders for that part of my game, making my hybrids, 3 wood and driver not slice and really go far.  The issue is that since I did that the wedges have gone to heck.  I have no idea what I'm even supposed to be doing.  I've read you should have a seperate grip for the wedges (Pelz) or the same grip as long game (Stockton).  I've read your supposed to be totally mechincal (i.e have a 63 yard swing) or use the same club and focus on the target rather than technique.  Its gotten to the point that I don't even know what grip I'm supposed to be using, and routinely can't help having thoughts on the backswing like "please don't shank this".  I have no confidence w/n 100 yards.  I've also tried tons of equipment changes - fat grips (which helped my long clubs), thin grips, have a set of sm4s, got fitted for wedges, have a set of CG15s, and ordered my "iron set" wedges which have more forgiveness.

I just made a grip change from a neutral left/weak right to a strong grip on both, and it's helping my long game greatly.

Funny thing is, though, I'm also noticeably better 120 yards and in because of it. Whether I weaken my grip around the greens or use the stronger one, I'm hitting better chips and pitches. As for 50/100 yard shots, they are the easiest part of the game for me.

50y: 62˚ wedge, backswing barely past hip, accelerate through and trust your alignment. Don't try to hit it high, hit it lower if anything. You may find opening your stance slightly or moving ball position a tiny bit can help. Don't try to play a big shape on the shot, but don't try to hit it too straight either. I can count on this club up to 80 yards, and hit it a bit farther than that, but it becomes easier to go SW.

100y: 56˚ wedge, 3/4 backswing, accelerate and hit the ball aggressively from there. I can dial it up to about 115 if I swing back further, and any more than that is a partial pitching wedge. Don't be afraid to take a divot.

Note: I hit the ball pretty far, but if you're flying the green from 75 with a LW you may be within 10 yards of me. Your distances may vary but I like to dial in these 2 because I can hit from yardage markers. 150 and 200 are popular yardages with me as well.

The strong grip is the way to go for me, I have less effort and more power. If you're getting it to work in the long game, try changing your setup and alignment, but the grip that gives you the best power is a good idea. No matter where I stop my backswing, I make sure I hit aggressively down and through, and clear my hips. I always hit somewhat of a draw and wedges are no exception, I trust them to fly like a stock shot and therefore my stock setup will get me in the area I'm aiming. I just try to hit it low and try not to make too hard of a swing; a full backswing will make you hit your wedges really high but not much farther, whereas with long clubs you can kick an extra few yards out.

[geauxforbroke]

Are most of your misses contact related (e.g. thin or fat) or are you just inconsistent with yardages and alignment? From what you described, it seems more of the former. One thing you have to remember is that hitting a wedge is completely different than hitting any other club. Even as a good player, I struggled for the longest with wedges, but one day it clicked. Here's what works for me: First, I play all wedges about a ball forward of the inside of my back foot. I want to be able to hit my wedges with a steeper angle of attack than other clubs. This allows me to control the trajectory and spin. Second, I open my stance so that my feet and hips are lined up about 10 yards left of the target. My swing with a wedge is somewhat shorter than with my irons, so this setup prevents my hips from getting behind and not clearing properly. Third, I rarely swing 100% with a wedge. For example, from 90 yards I'm much more accurate hitting a sand wedge 80% than trying to hit a lob wedge hard. Finally, I'm much better playing by feel. What I mean by that is I don't step up to a 100 yard shot with a sand wedge just because that's my normal distance on a SW. I sometimes will hit a gap wedge (50 degree, normally my 125 yard club) choked down and try to slide it left to right. The next time you are at the course and have time to drop a couple of extra balls, hit your shortest wedge at the maximum distance you are comfortable. Then drop a ball and hit your next longest wedge, then drop another and hit your next longest wedge (assuming you carry three). You will learn to hit different shots, learn how to control your distances, and most importantly, learn which wedge you are most comfortable with. Once you know what your "go to" wedge is, try to lay up to that distance. For me, it's a LW from 60-75 yards. Hope this helps!

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

Are most of your misses contact related (e.g. thin or fat) or are you just inconsistent with yardages and alignment?

When the problem first started, I was hitting everything long.  After about two weeks of bad play, I started making fundamental contact misses as my confidence plummeted.

Quote:

One thing you have to remember is that hitting a wedge is completely different than hitting any other club.

Could you explain this a bit more?

Quote:

Second, I open my stance so that my feet and hips are lined up about 10 yards left of the target.

Do you keep the face at the target or aim the face left too?  Or is it more like lining up to hit a cut?

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

Note: I hit the ball pretty far, but if you're flying the green from 75 with a LW you may be within 10 yards of me. Your distances may vary but I like to dial in these 2 because I can hit from yardage markers. 150 and 200 are popular yardages with me as well.

Generally, I have two LWs.  I have the one came with my iron set, which is 58* I believe and a Razr X head that goes b/t 85 and 95 for me.  I have a 60* LW from Cleveland (CG16) that I hit about 70-77.  Just to make sure we are comparing apples with apples.

Quote:

100y: 56˚ wedge, 3/4 backswing, accelerate and hit the ball aggressively from there. I can dial it up to about 115 if I swing back further, and any more than that is a partial pitching wedge. Don't be afraid to take a divot.

Yeah, I hit my 54* about 105 - 112, so I think we are close to the same.

Quote:

If you're getting it to work in the long game, try changing your setup and alignment, but the grip that gives you the best power is a good idea.

Thats what my pro said.  He is insistent that the wedge game will come with time and touch.  I am starting to lose patience! (not really, but it sure is frustrating).

[geauxforbroke]

Quote:

When the problem first started, I was hitting everything long.  After about two weeks of bad play, I started making fundamental contact misses as my confidence plummeted.

The reason I asked is because a common error in hitting wedges is to position the ball too forward in the stance. This was (and sometimes still is) my biggest fault in hitting wedges. Because the club and swing are inherently shorter with a wedge, your swing will "bottom out" sooner. You will have a tendency to catch a lot of shots fat, or if you try to compensate, you will catch a lot thin trying to avoid the fat shot. Simply moving the ball back a bit in your stance can make a huge difference (it did for me).

Quote:

Could you explain this a bit more?

As I mentioned above, wedges are the shortest and most lofted clubs in your bag. You can't expect to use the same setup and swing with a wedge as you do with your driver. I didn't mean you need to change your swing completely, just adjust accordingly. The way I do this is to change my setup a bit, which brings me to...

Quote:

Do you keep the face at the target or aim the face left too?  Or is it more like lining up to hit a cut?

I set up with my shoulders and club square to the target, then just move my front foot back an inch or two and open my front foot just a bit. This will open your hips slightly. As you mentioned, it's basically setting up to hit a small cut. Since the ball is further back in your stance, it's really easy for your hips to get behind or caught up if you don't start with them slightly opened.

Grip has been mentioned a few times. On full wedge shots, I use the same grip as with other clubs (slightly stronger than neutral). However, when using my LW on short shots or where I'm trying to get more height on the shot, I will weaken my grip, which helps prevent the club from turning over. But that's a totally different conversation.

Again, this is all my experience. I'm in no way a teacher. Only relaying what worked for me.

[Audaxi]

One thing that helps me is that I never hit a wedge with more than what feels like a 3/4 swing. My 56* goes about 100-105, and my 60* goes about 85-90 when I do this, and the gap between them and between my sandwedge and PW I fill by hitting it slightly softer or harder. Since I started doing this, my distance only dropped maybe 5 yards, but my consistency improved greatly as well as my ballstriking.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

All,

Getting frustrated, thought I'd post to see if someone can help me.  My game is going really well, but my wedge play from 120 and in is really inconsistant.  Through a workout routine, practice and a recent fitting my driver has really improved, and I am routinely hitting it 260-280 off the tee.  I am also stuck in the low eighties.  I almost never shoot a round over 85 or below 80 these days, as my wedge play has gone to hell.  These are from clean lies in the fairway.  I started tracking my rounds and was appalled at how bad my wedge game is.  For example, on saturday, I tracked my round real close to see just how bad my wedges are hurting me:

HOLE 1, PAR 5:  75 YARDS IN 2 SHOTS.  LW OVER THE GREEN.  MADE 7.

HOLE 2, PAR 3:  8 IRON, GIR PAR

HOLE 3, PAR 4:  102 TO PIN FROM RIGHT ROUGH, HIT TO 6 FEET, PAR

HOLE 4, PAR 3:  5 IRON, GIR PAR

HOLE 5, PAR 5:  ON IN 2, BIRDIE

HOLE 6, PAR 4:  94 TO PIN FROM FW, FAT WEDGE 60 FEET SHORT, CHIP&3 PUTT, DOUBLE

HOLE 7, PAR 3:  6 IRON, GIR PAR

HOLE 8, PAR 4:  7 IRON FROM ROUGH, GIR PAR

HOLE 9, PAR 5:  72 LEFT IN FW AFTER 2.  WEDGE INTO FRONT BUNKER.  BOGEY.

FRONT 9 40   (+3 all on holes in FW w/n 100 yards).

HOLE 10, PAR 4: SMASHED DRIVE (297).  85 LEFT FROM MIDDLE OF FAIRWAY.  YANKED WEDGE LEFT ON COLLAR.  CHIP/PUTT PAR.

HOLE 11, PAR 3: 6 IRON GIR, PAR.

HOLE 12, PAR 4: 8 IRON GIR, PAR.

HOLE 13, PAR 4: SMASHED DRIVE (286). 102 LEFT FROM MIDDLE OF FAIRWAY, HIT 15 YARDS OVER GREEN.  BOGEY.

HOLE 14, PAR 5: 105 IN FW FOR 3RD, PUSHED RIGHT OF GREEN, BOGEY.

HOLE 15, PAR 3: 6 IRON MISS SHORT, CHIP/PUTT PAR

HOLE 16 PAR 4: 8 IRON GIR, PAR.

HOLE 17 PAR 4: 72 LEFT AFTER DRIVE.  CHUNKED LW TO 30. THINNED WEDGE FROM 30 OVER BACK.  MADE 6.

HOLE 18 PAR 5 (REALLY LONG): 7 IRON 3RD INTO GREEN, MISSED SHORT, BOGEY.

BACK 9 41  (+4 on holes in FW w/n 100 yards).

For an 81 that felt like shoulda been a 76 the way I hit the other clubs.

The trouble started when a pro recommended I strengthen my grip in my long game - and that has done wonders for that part of my game, making my hybrids, 3 wood and driver not slice and really go far.  The issue is that since I did that the wedges have gone to heck.  I have no idea what I'm even supposed to be doing.  I've read you should have a seperate grip for the wedges (Pelz) or the same grip as long game (Stockton).  I've read your supposed to be totally mechincal (i.e have a 63 yard swing) or use the same club and focus on the target rather than technique.  Its gotten to the point that I don't even know what grip I'm supposed to be using, and routinely can't help having thoughts on the backswing like "please don't shank this".  I have no confidence w/n 100 yards.  I've also tried tons of equipment changes - fat grips (which helped my long clubs), thin grips, have a set of sm4s, got fitted for wedges, have a set of CG15s, and ordered my "iron set" wedges which have more forgiveness.

My short game is pretty good (bunker/chipping/pitching) but I would rather have almost any shot than an "easy" 100 yard wedge in the middle of the fairway.  Interestingly enough, I do not have much trouble if I'm in the rough - my wedge do pretty good from there.  But when its "easy" in the fairway I can't seem to get my head around it.  I'm at my wit's end and have considered going to a five hybrid off the tee so I never have to hit a wedge (seriously).  I get really nervous when I have one of these shots in front of people - with driver etc... I can't wait for my turn because I am confident but when I have a 90 yard wedge shot I just want to dig a hole and hide.  No idea what to do with the shot, no confidence in grip, backswing, stance, or where the ball is going.

It is driving me crazy because I "should" have birdie chances and be threatening 75 instead of struggling to stay under 85.

I'm not sure if anyone has any thoughts on fixing this.  I think its mostly mental, but maybe physical too.  I am desperate for help to get some sort of confidence and / or normalcy in this part of my game.  Has anyone else had a part of their game just go haywire while the rest stays solid?

Anyway, any advice is very, very welcome.  I feel like if I can develop even an average wedge game for a 7 hdcp I can get under hdcp 5.

-john

Without being really annoying and telling you to "get a lesson" like I'm sure you will hear at least 3 times.... I can gather quickly, the fact that you are actually over-thinking this aspect of your game. When you said you have come to the conclusion that you're not even sure which grip to use, that summed up the problem.

There is no one right approach to the short game. You will have distinguished ratios of people who conform to a certain style of play, but it doesn't make it the right approach.

The only way you can build confidence is through repetition and results.When you start seeing a specific grip, swing thought, swing, stance work for you with positive results... duplicate it. Duplicating success is a confidence builder and that is what is key, in my opinion.

Unfortunately I cannot and will not try to diagram an approach for you to try with wedges. It sounds like you are right on the edge of figuring it out, but you're just doubting yourself too much.

Next time you go out, clear your head and take a few deep breaths and start over.

[Simonj]

Your clearly hitting it well long-gamewise. My first bit of advice to anyone whos struggling with shots under 120 yards is to ensure you start your backswing with your lower body. Try standing in front of a mirror to see the difference. Whenever I see high handicappers or low handicaps who struggle with these shots they always tend to get too steep. Contrary to what most people will tell you, this shot is about coming in relatively shallow. For example, many times i hit behind the ball slightly on fairway 100 yard shots and they still go 'makeable' putting distance-because I am using the bounce of my wedges. From the rough is a different story. From the rough it actually works better to come in slightly steep as the leading edge digs in and twists you into a good position. Getting good at wedge play starts with an understanding  of how the bounce of a wedge works. Try watching tiger pitching, or even phil mickelson. Tiger says that the key is keeping everything in one piece. You can achieve this easily by starting the swing with your hip/lower body turn. Thing of that as a go signal to start your swing. Google or youtube phil mickelson and watch him. Even though he talks about lead and lag, watch the lower body rotation from the word go, and then his rotation through the ball. I see so many 2-5 hcp players hit it solidly enough to play off -1 but they lack an understanding of the fundamentals of pitching and 120 yards in.

So to summarise-

1- try and put weight slightly on left side.

2-ball position opposite sternum or 1/2- 1 inch in front of sternum-more forward in stance. Hands equal to ball or slightly-only slightly ahead.

3-start takeaway with lower body-by rotating hips. This will keep hands in sync with lower body and lead to a shallow angle and more room for error.

Another point that helped me greatly is to actually stare into the back of the ball. This is personal and i like to do it because i always figured that hitting slightly behind as a bad shot was better than hitting thin as the bounce tends to work its magic if i hit behind but not in front.

Hope this helps you guys. I know how much of a struggle wedge play can be.

Good luck

SJ

[vangator]

Lots of good advice to think about. :-) Go to the range with a couple of wedges and a laser scope. Scope out the exact distances to several targets. Work on making good contact with whatever setup you make. Get the "feel" for how hard you have to swing to hit those various distances. I play bunches of scrambles and always have shots under 100 yards. You have to be able to get it close. My next scramble is in October, so I'll be out there with my wedge and a bucket of balls. When I'm 60 yards from the pin, I know about how hard I have to swing. Maybe a 2/3 LW. If the pin is accessible (not tucked behind a trap or just over water etc), I play the ball slightly back and hit more of a punch shot. Much straighter, but it will release a little depending on how much spin you put on it. You have to judge.

[dave s]

You likely hit the ball much farther and me, but this should make sense regardless of club distance differential.

Since I'm older and not in any danger of breaking 80 anymore, understanding what CAN do well led to a reconfiguration of the clubs in my bag.  Short-iron play is my strong suit.  Getting into short-iron range is my focus on every hole.  Wedge play round the green and putting is good as well.  Here's what I came up with:

LW - 80 yards.  58/11 vokey

SW - 90 yards.  54/11 vokey

GW - 100 yards.  TaylorMade Rocketbladez from my iron set
PW - 110 yards TaylorMade Rocketbladez from my iron set

I can take 10-20 yards off my 58* by shortening my swing a bit but prefer NOT to be inside 60 yards with the club and DON'T go there if at all possible.  Anything else would be green side chips and pitches.  I'll also use anything from my 54* on up to an 8-iron to chip with when the opportunity of getting the ball rolling on the green quickly presents itself.

The key for me was getting a wedge set that result in full swings MOST of the time.  Outside of the wedges, it's 9i at around 120-125, 8i at 130-135 and 7i 140-145.

Rule #1:  Don't get in that 40-60 yard range.  It's one of the toughest shots in the bag.

Rule #2:  Think on how to get your NEXt shot into a comfort zone.  For me, it's short iron and/or wedge range.

Rule #3.  Understand the strength of your game and make sure you have the best tools that help you play to that strength.

dave

[Jakester23]

I haven't be able to hit less than full swing wedges for a while now. I don't hit them fat I hit them thin and off the heel. I don't know why i keep doing it but im going to go to the range this week and work on it.

[vangator]

The closer the better for me. I played the whites today. I play what the others in my group want to play. I had a lot of shots 60 and under today. Every one under 10 feet. Just dial down the LW. I don't do anything fancy with the shot. Just don't swing as hard.

[Pretzel]

I haven't be able to hit less than full swing wedges for a while now. I don't hit them fat I hit them thin and off the heel. I don't know why i keep doing it but im going to go to the range this week and work on it.

One thing that gets me is when I change the tempo and pace of my shorter swings. I have a phrase that I think in my head, two syllables for the backswing and two for the downswing, that helps me both ignore technical aspects of the swing while in a tournament and keep my tempo. If I get faster on short swings in my tempo, I tend to hit it thin. If I swing slower on the downswing with shorter shots, I tend to hit it fat. The little phrase helps me with the tempo, so the only thing I worry about is making sure I feel like I'm still swinging at the same speed.

[Hammer 4]

I haven't be able to hit less than full swing wedges for a while now. I don't hit them fat I hit them thin and off the heel. I don't know why i keep doing it but im going to go to the range this week and work on it.

For me, the same occurred because I was standing to close to the ball, i.e. and to upright. Mike had me move back further, and bent over at the waist so my chin would clear my shoulders, and so I would swing in to out, it worked. Just had to make sure my hands did not get outside my club on the take away. I hit 1/2, and 3/4 shots with my wedges all the time now, very seldom do I thin one, I will hit one off the toe, every so often, but when I do that, I know what I did wrong. Hope you get sorted out.

[MS256]

Me too. When I'm playing fairly well it feels like my swing takes the same amount of time whether it's a full swing or a little pitch around the green or anything in between. I've never timed it or anything but that's how it feels.