Counterfeit Golf Clubs on EBay

[LBlack14]

Has anyone purchased any equipment from "thegolfhabit" on eBay? I am concerned because several posts warn about counterfeit TaylorMade equipment. I have bid on a set of TaylorMade rac lt2 irons. There are still several days for bidding but I don't want to buy a set of fakes. Thanks.

Check the Serial # with TaylorMade

[KingCobra]

ive seen alot of fake sasquatch drivers on ebay

[Carland]

I ended buying the LT2 from a Taylor Made retailer who still had a set. I didn't want to take the chance of getting a fake. I think it was well worth it.

[bluenar9]

From my browsing I've noticed that most eBay sellers who sell counterfeit clubs do not trick you. They may draw you in to their ad with a cheap price, but unless you're stupid you can't miss the fact that they say "clone," "look-alike," etc.

On a related note, my father bought a set of King Snake irons about 6 years ago and they still work great for him. They were knock-offs of the Cobras, but they hit very well. The grips were cheap but everything else was quality. The guy who crafted them was from a local pro shop and did it as a side business, and he said they're the same heads as the real clubs but with minor defects here and there, making them cosmetically unusable but similar in performance.

Is this a valid concept? I know name brands are a big thing on the golf course but, assuming you don't care are these kinds of deals OK or am I missing something obvious?

[Big Lex]

Golf Digest did a story on the club manufacturing business in China this past year, and they touched on the counterfeit clubs. There are a wide variety of counterfeits out there, many of which are virtually impossible to tell from the real thing. However, the author of the article points out that often, below the paint and inside the club, the quality of the counterfeits is well below that of the real thing.

The upshot is that you can only be sure by going through legit channels...even this can be hard to be sure of, but if you stick with big name retailers, reputable golf course pro shops, etc., you can be reasonably certain you're not getting counterfeit clubs.

And of course, counterfeiting is a crime, and nobody should rationalize buying these clubs because the equipment companies "charge too much." If you can't afford a $400 driver, you can get one used and virtually new for a little more than half that. There are also tons of choices in new clubs that are still very high quality, but lower price...examples of such manufacturers include Nicklaus, some of the Tour Edge line, etc.

There's no good reason to buy counterfeit equipment.

[DDBowdoin]

I've always wondered about ebay and new there was a counterfeit issue but after reading some of these posts I started to get a little more worried. I recently purchased a Taylormade r7 425 TP from a power seller on ebay with a 100% feedback and almost 9000 transactions. The post was well described and containted actual club photo's, of the head, crown, shaft w/ original labels.

I checked the pga value guide and the trade in is low for the club, 128 on average and I bought this club for just under 200 dollars. Before I mailed my money order I emailed him asking him for the serial code, he responded with the code and I was able to confirm the authenticity with Taylormade. The only thing I am worried about is he didn't take a close up shot of the serial code but happily provided it via email. Should I be worried about this or did I take the correct precautions to avoid a counterfeit club?

[redvet]

I've always wondered about ebay and new there was a counterfeit issue but after reading some of these posts I started to get a little more worried. I recently purchased a Taylormade r7 425 TP from a power seller on ebay with a 100% feedback and almost 9000 transactions. The post was well described and containted actual club photo's, of the head, crown, shaft w/ original labels.

Wouldn't think you have much to be concerned about with the checks you have made and the guy's reputation. I bought the same model last year on EBay here in the UK from a seller of similar trading strength, it was described as 9/10 condition, when I unpacked it, all the manufacturer film/shrink wrap was in place. I got suspicious, it looked too good for the price and when I got back to him and he said it was actually new, I got even more worried, however I checked it out with TM and it was legitimate.

[Guest]

Warning warning!!

I just bought an Odyssey two ball hot steel putter from asia on ebay, it was a fake, but that's not the worst(should have known better).

The seller managed to give himself positive feedback from me!!!!!!! No wonder he has 100% positive feedback. I don't know how he managed to do that, but this is at threath to the way ebay works, if you can't trust if a sellers feedback is real.................

Don't buy from Asia.

[clstrat]

i've bought tons of clubs on ebay and never ever ever ever have received a counterfeit. many of them are price around $100 below retail of what i would pay in a store.

i will echo what others have said that common sense in the determining factor in getting ripped off.

if a deal is too good to be true then it probably is. don't by a brand new Callaway FT-i from Hong Kong for $199 and you'll be ok.

[Manystyles]

For clubs with S/N I ask for and verify them. This is precisely why clubs have a SN. To prevent counterfeiting. To allow buyers to verify the specs of the club as the manufacturer made it. Ping is very good about this. I called them about a set of old pings and they could tell me the specs of all the clubs and even when they were last sent in for service, what was done to them, any repairs the ping shop made, everything. It's amazing how detailed they are with the records they keep (these were clubs made about 15 years ago too!)

SN's exist to allow the seller and buyer to be confident that the item they are selling is as described. That is the entire point of SN's, to track products and their specifications etc.

If the seller refuses to provide the S/N I don't buy, as I feel that there is NO REASON for a seller not to provide this info. None.

The reasons I've heard from sellers who refuse to provide SN's are primarily versions of: "You might be a counterfeiter looking to stamp my legit s/n on your fake goods so I won't give it to you."

This is beyond common sense here. Counterfeiters have a million ways of getting real SN's onto their product. In any city, in any country in the world is a place that sells authentic golf gear where a counterfeiter can walk into and get all the real SN's they want. Counterfeiter's don't need to go on ebay and email sellers asking for SN's, there are many easier ways for them to obtain SN's that are more effort and cost effective then emailing people on ebay. Sorry. To me this simple fact makes the excuse stated above no good at all.

I don't buy from any seller, ever who doesn't give me the SN. Period. This has lead to me not getting ripped off.

I also don't buy the newest clubs too often (sometimes I do, but not all that much.... , but usually a season or so old so I can get them at a steep discount. We all know that counterfeiters don't counterfeit two year old golf gear, so anyone who doesn't want to give an SN on gear that is old enough to not be counterfeited anymore I also don't buy from.

On Ebay, I find that those selling new gear are not all that competitive with local pro shops and chain stores. If all it costs me is the tax or close to it (like getting a $400 driver for $350), I'll go to the local, authorized dealer, pick out my club and know it's 100% real.

Sometimes I do like to buy used gear on Ebay which is where you can find deals, if you buy from legit dealers or spend the time to verify the info from individual sellers.

Sadly, many people who know they've gotten a fake club will turn around and sell it on Ebay again. If you look in their feedback and they're selling a club they bought from someone who may be crooked, verify the SN or (as I do) just skip it. Used gear is a dime a dozen on ebay, another one with your specs will be up in a day or two.


Developing a set of rules I purchase by is the best way for me to avoid getting ripped off.

I like to try out all kinds of clubs, and eBay allows you to buy a club try it for a couple rounds and if you don't like it sell it and get your money back (and even make a profit if you get a club that needs to be refinished and you refinish it yourself). It means people without a ton of discretionary income can get and try lots of clubs.

That alone has me leaning to ebay being good, you just have to take precautions.

just 2 pennies

[fusioncal]

How about a driver that is stamped "No Warranty"? I'm currently trying to snatch a good deal on TaylorMade r7 SuperQuad driver and I noticed some of power sellers have this in the description. No Warranty clubs originally had S/N, but they're returned new from the retailers to TaylorMade and TaylorMade would re-stamp them with "No Warranty." My question is, how do you check if they're legit?

[Manystyles]

They are probably demo clubs.

Why would a company suddenly not warranty their new clubs jsut because they've been returned as overstock?

Overstock clubs end up on places like Rockbottomgolf and overstock.com (that is exaxctly how they can sell you a R7 for $80-100 less then a new one cost, because the season is ending, overstock is coming in and they need to get rid of it, so they can close out the current period.)

Clubs that have been stamped no warranty are usually in store demo's or fitting system clubs from the tour van or a shop that they are getting rid of.

Once a club line is discontinued there is no reason for Golf Shop A to keep their demo/fiutting clubs since they won't (and in some cases the manufacturer won't) sell them anymore, they will sell the new gear. Well, they can simply sit on it, or they can sell them to people who liquidate them on ebay or similar sites or do it themselves.

I'm no expert, since I don't own a pro-shop, but I'd bet the clubs come from the company stamped "no warranty" can you imagine the cost of takin in a ton of old clubs just to stamp "no warranty" on them and then re-sell them? It would cost more to take them back and re-stamp them then they could make selling them!

Demo clubs? they get abused, banged on. Hit by people who aren't good (that's why so many of them have skyball marks, bad chips etc.). So, there is an interest in the company not having a few thousand clubs floating around that are basically used and abused, sold to a retailer at low or no cost to use as demos then sent back for replacement.

Why would they want to warranty a product that wasn't sold by them at what they consider fair market value for their product? They don't.

here's a theoretical example:

company sells 10 driver model X in various specs to a retailer to use in his fitting station for 70% discount per unit.

dealer is less then scrupulous, sells them as new (or uses them for a while and sells them used). Since dealer got them for 70% discount per unit, he can make an additional 70% profit selling the as soon as he gets them.

This amounts to a loss of 70% for golf co. X per unit. One way they protect themselves from this is by marking these clubs so that if they are sold, they don't have to eat the cost of a lifetime warranty on a product that was discounted super cheap and never really meant for consumers.

I highly doubt they are sent to TM as overstock and returned stamped "no warranty" it would just be too expensice for the company to do, given the amount of $$$ the clubs are worth. Remember, as soon as the new club comes out the old one is worth WAY less. (see nike Sasquatch to Sumo to Sumo2, at retail the sumo sells for $100 less then the sumo2. Is the sumo 2 $100 better? Not in my mind, but that's the way the golf gear industry works.

That said, I own a couple demo clubs and besides cosmetics, they work fine. You just have to watch out for dents and stuff because as demo's they can get abused and make sure the specs are standard. One demo I got a great deal on was .75" long over standard and I had to cut the grip off, saw it down and re-grip it.

[Manystyles]

oh, and if you look on ebay, many sellers simply have a spot in their ad listing for the SN on all clubs they sell. I find that pro-shops who sell online do this, why? Because they are not shady. If a pro-shop was found to be selling fake goods on ebay (or in their store) the majors would simply yank their goods and put them out of business.

I've been looking to get a TM Burner to play around with and of the 10 people I asked,

2 had the SN in the ad and I missed it :)
3 provided the info on request and even sent a pic of it
5 told me the "you could be a counterfeiter" excuse.

the 5 that gave me the excuse were "non brick and mortar" sellers. So, based on this limited sample, and my own rules for buying above, I'd tack on, buy from Brick and Mortar stores just using ebay to reach a wider market, since those sellers have no problem providing SN's

which raises the question, (to anyone here who is a strictly online seller of goods, or can answer it for me) if the legit, brick and mortar, pro shop dealers are not afraid of givning out SN's why would any seller be?

[fusioncal]

They are probably demo clubs.

You've got a point. But I think the reason why TaylorMade would spend a certain amount of money to re-stamp them with "No Warranty" is to save them from warranty claims in the future which would cost even more money. There's no telling every returned items could be still in "new" condition as if they're fresh from the factory without scratches, tiny dents, etc both the clubhead and the shaft although they're still in shrink wrap.

Of course TaylorMade has the option to inspect every clubs that are returned to them, but again it's gonna cost a lot to them and it's not like they're gonna be error free. Even manufactured clubs from the factory have defect rate to them. They're not going to take any chances. Hence, the easy and cheapest way for TaylorMade is just to stamp "No Warranty" on every clubs that are returned. Simple with no hassle in the future.

[fusioncal]

Wait, my question remains unanswered. How do you know the r7 SuperQuad driver is fake if they only have "No Warranty" as the S/N. Has anyone received fake one with "No Warranty" as its S/N?

I asked this eBay seller (goat_golfer) for the r7 SuperQuad driver S/N he's auctioning and he replied, "It's note fake and I'm not telling you." I laughed out loud when I read his reply. It's funny when someone expects you to just believe the word they say. Moreover, from the feedback he calls the buyer "idiot" if something goes wrong. What a "professional" guy to deal with. Well, I think I'll pass on this one.

[hawkeye]

deffo Taylormade - probably because they're the biggest seller on eBay.

The "NO WARRANTY" deal does not mean they're demo, as the auction says, they were brought back to TM from the dealer for various reasons. Mine had a couple of dents in it, hardly noticable and they in no way alter ball striking or quality of shot. The seller stated that if i have any problems, he will be happy to help (either take it back/fix/replace). The NO WARRANTY stamp is so people won't bring these "second hand" clubs back to TM directly

(second hand in parantheses because the club was brand new)

[AidenSmith]

I've moved this post to its own thread.