My Swing (NotBillCosby)

[the chopper]

That is real progress, let me show you why in three snapshots of your first vid. Firstly though i want to highlight the main thing i seen. You were set up pretty well but as you swung the club you were dramatically changing your spine angle or your posture if you prefer. It was like watching you almost try to stand up during your swing and as a result a whole range of things were way out. The golf swing by nature is rotary, its all about a shoulder turn around your spine(in context of the standing up fault) Your last vid is far better--- very well done!! really, what a difference you must be feeling.

Here you are set up quite well, though for future reference bud, less sky and lets see your feet and the impact zone.

NOTE  the 100 sign its on a line with your spine up to the base of your neck.

Now look where the 100 sign is in relation to your spine. You have made yourself taller and stood out of your posture which changes so much in a golf swing.

Just as you are coming in to strike the ball see how you are way off your original position.

Please do not mis -understand, we are not supposed to return exactly to the same position as i am sure you are aware but spine angle should be closer than that. There are other things but if i were you i would begin with developing a good hip and shoulder ROTARY TURN. Not lift with the arms and shoulders. Best of luck and yeh some improvement.

[Valleygolfer]

Great shots of the clouds... Anywho, you are still armsy. As MEFree said, you get a little flimsy in your swing, like there is no purpose. It is hard to describe. It is like you are relying on your torso twist to bring the club through. The turn is like a forced spin and not a result of your follow through. The swing is out of sequence and you are not shifting your weight.You won't get the distance until you start with the lateral shift first. It is not a light switch thing though. It takes time. MVmac has a video of "Stepping on a bug" to help keep your weight on your front foot. Check out his post here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/63229/tips-to-help-me-get-hips-more-involved-in-downswing#post_786550

[NotBillCosby]

The chopper and Valley Golfer.. excellent observations. I have been struggling with using my weight shift and hips more. I try to take my hands out of the equation. I have made every swing mistake in the book. My swings a few months back were horrid. Casting, all upper body.. you name it. When I do get it right, it feels very free and fluid. Less strain on my body - I hurt myself a bit a month ago. I get surprised where all the power comes from and I dont feel my hands banging on the mats. I realized my backswing was out of whack but my instructor rightly insists I work on one thing at a time. I have plenty of time now so I am getting some good instruction here on my backswing. I realize now how much trouble it is to tuck that right elbow with a poor takeaway. The better takeaway corrects that. I like the bug squashing thought with the left toe. Sometimes the whole shift your weight is way too generic of a description -- as a result, I lunge my body at times. Ill try to keep the spine angle now. I have plenty to work on. At times I have felt like giving up but I am happy to know its a work in progress and I am seeing results. Hopefully in a few months ill get it down and post a final result. Thanks so much!

[NotBillCosby]

Quick question. My former backswing, is this more for a 2-plane swing or is it incorrect all together? Or am I getting confused and my new backswing is fundamentally sound and correct for both 1 and 2 plane swings?

I am 5'9, shorter arms and broader chested - I was wondering if there is a swing that is more suitable for my body type or if the whole 1 and 2 plane thing is irrelevant.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by NotBillCosby

Quick question. My former backswing, is this more for a 2-plane swing or is it incorrect all together? Or am I getting confused and my new backswing is fundamentally sound and correct for both 1 and 2 plane swings?

I am 5'9, shorter arms and broader chested - I was wondering if there is a swing that is more suitable for my body type or if the whole 1 and 2 plane thing is irrelevant.

Really nice work!  Check out these pics, I'd just like to see the neck, upper back more relaxed, "softer" to allow the head to tilt down more.  Shoulders needs to get a little steeper.  Compare where eyes are looking to Zach Johnson.  You can practice with your forehead up against a wall, make a backswing keeping your head against the wall.  Take note of how that feels and take that feel/image to the range.

Your swing looks pretty one plane to me.  That's a Jim Hardy definition, meaning the angle of the left arm and pitch of the shoulders match at the top of the backswing, "one plane" like Ben Hogan or Zach Johnson below.  Don't get it confused with swinging the club on a single plane.  A two plane back swing would be someone like Fred Couples or Jack Nicklaus.

[Beachcomber]

I agree with Mike (mvmac) that NBC's shoulders (left shoulder) needs to get steeper on the back swing.  Watch mvmac's Centered Pivot video.

For this piece of getting the shoulder turn more vertical... Pay attention to the left shoulder and how it works in the golf back swing.  Pay particular attention to the instruction at 3:00 - to 3:45 where mvmac highlights the sternum - or the center of rotation and the left shoulder start point.

Notice how as Grant starts his swing at 3:49, the left shoulder moves down the blue line - and reaches the center of rotation.  As Grant reaches A3 (P3) where the left arm is parallel to the ground - you will notice the left shoulder is now under his chin - and reached the center of rotation (sternum).

You can work on this piece in a mirror - just focusing on the shoulders and turning the left shoulder under the chin and getting the left to go down from A1 to A2 - and reach that low point in the sternum (center of rotation) at A3.

Here is another handy dandy video which highlights the shoulder turn - but from the down the line angle.

Lastly, here is a drill you can do at home - which will help you with getting the proper shoulder turn.  This drill from Andrew Rice will help you get that steeper shoulder turn - and also help you nail the piece mvmac highlights on keeping the ball in your centered vision.

These are all items which will help you hit the ball more consistently.  Then we can address how to get your arms/feet/hips etc etc. going to help you hit the ball further.  But first is getting you to clean up the core pieces.

[NotBillCosby]

This site is awesome. Hopefully I can give back advice when I get this down one day. Had no idea about the shoulder turn being so vertical, still trying to implement that.  I think my grip is better now. Before it was left hand weak, now it is more left hand strong for that wrist cock.

[NotBillCosby]

Tried it out at the range last night and the results were impressive, although inconsistent which I know it will take time to ingrain this new feeling.  I didn't realize how armsy and tense my swing was until I consciously tried to leave them out, slowing them down in the process. The shoulder turn and the proper footwork made all the difference in my ability to slot the club into the inside.  It is really difficult to get that right elbow into the hip if you take a long backswing and have a horizontal turn.. I ended up in pain last month because of this.  Anyways, it will take some work to get this proper feeling down, but the balls I struck yesterday definitely had more zip behind them...and with less effort too.  Just got to have courage and trust that the proper mechanics will get me there and leave my muscle/ego at the door.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by NotBillCosby

It is really difficult to get that right elbow into the hip if you take a long back swing and have a horizontal turn.. I ended up in pain last month because of this.  Anyways, it will take some work to get this proper feeling down, but the balls I struck yesterday definitely had more zip behind them...and with less effort too.  Just got to have courage and trust that the proper mechanics will get me there and leave my muscle/ego at the door.

Be careful ... If you experience pain or discomfort... Then something is wrong and you should stop as we don't want anyone injured.  Please explain where you are experiencing pain or discomfort.

One thing to really consider, is try going with a pitching motion at first - get the proper turns and rates of the arms and shoulders... Then move to the full swing.  The pitching motion and full swing motion are very similar - the primary difference is in a full swing - the hands travel up and back another ~ 6" in the back swing to complete your swing.

So a great way to learn how to make the proper turns and motions are by Pitching shots with a wedge.  Check out this video from Chuck Evans which talks about getting the club on plane with pitching.  Basically a right forearm takeaway - keeps that club on plane.  This is something you can practice in a mirror - in your back yard - and then go hit some pitch shots.

Again, you can see the basic motions are the same as you go from chipping, to pitching to full swing.  If you are having issues with the full swing... Then go down to the pitching motion and try it until you start to nail the basic motion.  If you are having issues with the pitching motion... Then go back to the chipping motion.  The last thing you should feel is pain.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by NotBillCosby

Tried it out at the range last night and the results were impressive, although inconsistent which I know it will take time to ingrain this new feeling.  I didn't realize how armsy and tense my swing was until I consciously tried to leave them out, slowing them down in the process. The shoulder turn and the proper footwork made all the difference in my ability to slot the club into the inside.  It is really difficult to get that right elbow into the hip if you take a long backswing and have a horizontal turn.. I ended up in pain last month because of this.  Anyways, it will take some work to get this proper feeling down, but the balls I struck yesterday definitely had more zip behind them...and with less effort too.  Just got to have courage and trust that the proper mechanics will get me there and leave my muscle/ego at the door.

Good to hear it went well.  Turning the body the way I described will help keep you less prone to injury and it makes sense for a number of reasons.  Keep it up and you'll notice it will feel less and less foreign.

[NotBillCosby]

A big help would be if someone could provide a link/book/vid of the best description on how to execute the golf swing in steps to clear it all up in my head.  Does this exist?  Sometimes I just 'get it' on the range and other times I am guessing on what I need to do with certain parts of the body.

[hopefulhacker]

Originally Posted by NotBillCosby

A big help would be if someone could provide a link/book/vid of the best description on how to execute the golf swing in steps to clear it all up in my head.  Does this exist?  Sometimes I just 'get it' on the range and other times I am guessing on what I need to do with certain parts of the body.

I think you'll find that with the more "good practice" you do, the more you'll "get it".

I'm playing 2 years now, but only really focused on improvement about 3 - 4 months ago.

Up until then, my range practice was bad practice.... Hit a slice, throw down another ball, hook it, hit another ball straight, throw another ball down etc etc.... No thoughts in between my shots, just frustration or the odd bit of joy after a good shot.

I started to "get it" (and it was an amazing moment) when I started to take my time, had a little think as to what felt wrong after bad, what felt good after sweet shots etc.

So, from someone who just started to get it, I'd say keep the thoughts to before and after your swing, not during the swing itself.

You don't want 6,7,8,9 thoughts on executing the golf swing rushing through your head while you're swinging.

[NotBillCosby]

The main thing that I am having trouble grasping is the movement of the shoulders.  I see the correct movement is vertical with an iron swing, instead of what I have been doing, which is more horizontal.  This is to encourage a downward blow. With a driver, I know you have to keep the right shoulder lower than the left at address, which I think is to encourage an upward blow.  In this regard, do the shoulders still move vertical, with the left still towards the ball, albeit pointing up instead of down for the driver?  With the downswing, do I consciously have to worry about how the shoulders turn for both irons and driver?  This would help clear up a lot of my confusion in the swing!

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by NotBillCosby

The main thing that I am having trouble grasping is the movement of the shoulders.  I see the correct movement is vertical with an iron swing, instead of what I have been doing, which is more horizontal.  This is to encourage a downward blow. With a driver, I know you have to keep the right shoulder lower than the left at address, which I think is to encourage an upward blow.  In this regard, do the shoulders still move vertical, with the left still towards the ball, albeit pointing up instead of down for the driver?  With the downswing, do I consciously have to worry about how the shoulders turn for both irons and driver?  This would help clear up a lot of my confusion in the swing!

On both - driver and irons - you need to get that left shoulder squarely under your chin on the back swing.  More vertical than what we have seen from your original swing video.

Note 1: The driver the ball will move forward - left armpit or even further toward your left big toe.  This will help you swing 'up' on a driver.

Note 2: The shorter iron will be closer to the middle of your stance and as the iron lengthens moved slightly forward.  Here are a few photos for quick reference:

On both the iron and driver swing, the right shoulder at address will be slightly lower than the left for both the driver and iron swing.  See the following video - you can see the swing models right shoulder is lower than the left before he swings the club.  This is also true with a driver swing.

[zipazoid]

Hey I got a question, and I'm totally serious -

I assume you used your cell phone to take those vids. How did you mount it? I want to do that next time I'm at the range.

[Jhwarren]

Not sure what Notbill used, but here is a link to a thread that could help you. http://thesandtrap.com/t/60448/the-protosports-holster-for-the-iphone

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Hey I got a question, and I'm totally serious -

I assume you used your cell phone to take those vids. How did you mount it? I want to do that next time I'm at the range.

Are you asking NBC?  Or which video?

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Are you asking NBC?  Or which video?

I was addressing it to NBC - how he was able to use his smartphone (if that's what he used) to film his swing, but anyone could chime in (or not - don't want to hijack the thread). But JhWarren provided a link in his reply. Thanks!