Ball in a rolled up leaf inside bunker

[boogielicious]

This is one of the unfortunate things about fall golf.  The bunkers full of leaves.  I had one a couple weeks back and knew the rule, so I tried the bunker shot.  The ball was completely under the leaves.  By miracle, I got a decent shot off, but it was comical.  You basically guess where the ball is.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

This is one of the unfortunate things about fall golf.  The bunkers full of leaves.  I had one a couple weeks back and knew the rule, so I tried the bunker shot.  The ball was completely under the leaves.  By miracle, I got a decent shot off, but it was comical.  You basically guess where the ball is.

We're not posting scores anymore in our area, so when we play we have been agreeing to move the leaves out of the way in bunkers unless it is in a tournament where you have to protect the field. Generally, our golf staff has done a pretty good job of removing them regularly.

[Missouri Swede]

Practically speaking, how do you find a golf ball in a bunker with 4 inches of leaves without moving the ball? Is it possible to do?

My own answer (to myself): No, it's not really possible. So by choosing to play on a course with those conditions, I'm choosing to play under conditions such that hitting into a bunker is a worse play than hitting into a water hazard (virtually guaranteed 1 stroke penalty, plus you don't get to drop the ball out of the hazard or out of the leaves). That should lead me to consider shots differently than I would at other times of the year. (Risk/reward is different. No, it might not be "fair" but it's golf.)

Any better answers?

What do others do? Do you call the course and ask if they've cleaned up the leaves yet?

[Rulesman]

Suggest to the committee/course management that they read the last paragraph of Decision 13-4/33

[Missouri Swede]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Suggest to the committee/course management that they read the last paragraph of Decision 13-4/33

Perfect. That's what I needed!  Thanks.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Suggest to the committee/course management that they read the last paragraph of Decision 13-4/33

That allows you a drop, within the bunker, but can the local rule exonerate you from the penalty for moving the ball while searching for it in an accumulation of leaves within a bunker?

[luu5]

Originally Posted by Missouri Swede

Practically speaking, how do you find a golf ball in a bunker with 4 inches of leaves without moving the ball? Is it possible to do?

If you really are worried about your score in such like situation, then ask your partner to search for your ball. No penalty if he/she moves the ball, unless you play on same side.

[Rulesman]

The penalty is pretty severe. DQ in fact.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Practically speaking, how do you find a golf ball in a bunker with 4 inches of leaves without moving the ball? Is it possible to do?

In my case, it was following the ball trail.  I could see the tracks lead right into the leaves.  I could also see a tiny bit of the ball when looking from the side.  It was actually kind of funny.  The bunker wasn't full of leaves, but had a small pile at the low point where the ball ended up.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by luu5

If you really are worried about your score in such like situation, then ask your partner to search for your ball. No penalty if he/she moves the ball, unless you play on same side.

Partners always play on the same side.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Partners always play on the same side.

Sorry, should have said Fellow Competitor and at the same time not partner.

[Rulesman]

I meant to add a at the end of the comment but hit enter too soon..

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by turtleback

That allows you a drop, within the bunker, but can the local rule exonerate you from the penalty for moving the ball while searching for it in an accumulation of leaves within a bunker?

If the accumulation of leaves has been declared as Ground Under Repair then you get no penalty for moving your ball provided you will take relief per R25-1. That's the whole idea behind Dec 13-4/33 last chapter.

[Lefty-Golfer]

or you could just use your heads, realize that it is fall and there are leaves on the course and play on as you did...if any of my 4-some had problem with that they would be laughed out of our group. or at a min be forced to buy a couple rounds of drinks for being an ass!!

play honest to the rules but it is fall and not the tour.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

or you could just use your heads, realize that it is fall and there are leaves on the course and play on as you did...if any of my 4-some had problem with that they would be laughed out of our group. or at a min be forced to buy a couple rounds of drinks for being an ass!!

play honest to the rules but it is fall and not the tour.

People come here to find out what the rules are, not the ways to ignore them.

[ctyankee]

To my thinking, some of the worst rules in golf involve sand trap situations.

Example: a flash shower occurs during a tournament.  The only dry place left in the bunker is at a point closer to the pin with the rest of the bunker underwater.  So, the unlucky competitor can (1) play it as it lies (2) potentially move it to a place where the ball is in shallower water (at no penalty) and drop it and attempt that underwater shot or (3) take it outside the bunker, no closer to the hole with a one stroke penalty.

I'd suggest that in the case of temporary water, with no legal relief from temporary water within the trap, the ball should be allowed to be moved closer to the hole within the trap and placed rather than dropped.  Why?  It's fair and it removes the idiocy of doing drops that (likely) will only end up rolling back into the soup or (potentially) with the ball plugging.  If the whole bunker is underwater, I think the competitor should be allowed to moved the ball out of the bunker, nearest point of relief, no nearer the hole.  It's the fair thing to do.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by ctyankee

It's the fair thing to do.

Show me that rule which says that golf has to be fair.  The rules only have to be equitable.  Fairness is an opinion.  What is fair to you may not be fair to me.  However, applying the rules in the same manner to every competitor and treating like situations the same for all competitors is equitable , and that is the closest thing to fair that you are going to find in golf.  Is it "fair" that you hit a tree and your ball deflects to a point just 5 feet from the hole, while I hit the same tree and my ball ends up lost in the woods?  Fairness is an illusion.

To address your concern:  What you have put forth is a rare and unusual situation.  It would be silly to overhaul the rules every time Mother Nature dumped on a tournament.  The rules have already considered such eventualities.   The committee should declare the bunker as ground under repair for as long as the condition exists.  If they don't take some sort of action, then the fault is with the committee, not with the rules.

[Rulesman]

"Play the ball as it lies, play the course as you find it and if you cannot do either, do what is fair.

But to do what is fair, you need to know the Rules of Golf."