kbs Ctapers launch monitor numbers...comments please

[greenadam21]

I've been Playing Golf for: 4

My current handicap index or average score is:-3

My typical ball flight is: low

Hey everyone.  I'm looking at switching down to a stiff in ctapers.  My current numbers are good as far as spin and launch but my dispersion is pretty large.  I have x shafts in my kbs tours.  But i want to shrink my misses and dispersion.  The numbers below are a session today trying stiff Ctapers  in a 6 iron with nice smooth "half feeling" swing.  I had very nice dispersion notice the small white cirlce on the last pic....and this includes my outliers.

My concern is how low the spin is.

I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on spin numbers vs decent angle...anyone else experience these numbers...will these shots one hop stop??? Release out ...please let me know

best

Adam

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: push slice

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Videos:

[logman]

I've got no idea about the numbers, but they look pretty straight in the pic!

[greenadam21]

Ha! thanks...but those monitors shrink down the field pretty well so the shots all look pretty good ...there  are a couple in there that are a full 10 yds offline + or -

I was hitting them straight...just worried if they are every gonna stop rolling.

[LuciusWooding]

You must be using a pretty strongly lofted 6i to be hitting it that far at only 84mph. I can carry a 7i about 180 pretty easily and I use the soft stepped X in C tapers, but I definitely have about 8-10mph of clubhead speed on you. I love them for the feel and dispersion, and I happen to fit them pretty well for trajectory, but they ain't cheap. I went with soft stepped X simply because I wanted 130g instead of 120 or 125. I was recommended to get the S+.

The reason you hit it so far is you create such high launch and low spin. It's great with the driver and fairway woods, but it results in a knuckleball that rolls 20 yards. You also manage to generate a pretty high ball speed relative to your swing speed, so I suspect some combination of very hot irons and a distance ball.

The max height is interesting, because most tour players shoot for a 90 foot/30y max height on every club. Your max height is about perfect, however most pros have a descent angle of at least high 40s in their irons, over 50 in short irons. That's because they're putting on a lot more spin on a lower launching shot so it will come down steep, peak late, use up its energy sooner, and take less of a bounce. The actual spin on the ball doesn't do much until it's already settled on the green, so spin-checking is a bit of a misnomer. If you can get a 30+ max height and 48+ on descent angle, odds are you'll stop the ball with your irons, regardless of your actual spin number.

As for your dispersion and consistency, both are really good to be honest. http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/?337 The pros average, from 175-200 yards, anywhere from 30 feet for the best in the category to about 40 feet for the worst. That's 10-13 yards offline, assuming good distance control. Given that you aren't playing on tour greens, but that's still pretty straight hitting by the looks of it.

I'd recommend against using the C tapers in this flex, though you might be able to play like R+ or R (Jim Furyk plays R+ and his dispersion is pretty good, his SS is even higher than yours by a bit). I'd possibly look into the head or loft, and most likely consider a switch to a tour or higher spin ball just to get the spin numbers up and the launch down slightly. But unless you're playing really low spin equipment already, it's your technique that's causing a really low spin and high launch for irons, even with a tight dispersion.

[greenadam21]

Lucious

thanks for the post.

It seems you know quite a bit on the subject..I probably should have given more information.

In response i'm currently playing KBS tour x flex with Mizuno mp 59  heads in standard lofts.  These are pretty weak lofts by today's standards I am told  and considered a "players" iron/mbblade that aren't considered "hot" by any means.  I don't blame you for making that assumption I would think the same.  Theses numbers come from a foresight system.  It takes ball measurements only and "guestimates" clubhead speed.  When on a trackman, which does measure those aspects, i have a higher swing speed generally.  All the other numbers match up to the trackman very well.

I'm currently playing a Ping Anser Diamana Ahina in S flex driver avg swing speed 105-110

My dispersion was kept low by taking these half to 3/4 feeling swings

When using my current kbs tours x flex i spin the ball quite a lot. 6400 + or - on a relatively delofted shot...and more if I hit it square to open with high launch and  I loose a lot of distance.

I've never hit mid irons with such low spin as I saw in the images you see.  Took some adjusting to get back to a square face that wasn't delofted to kill the spin.  Once i did I was seeing decent angles from 42-44 and higher, which are lower than my current irons and probably averaging around 5000 rpms...I was just hoping someone with similar number or knowledge of ball behavior with those two figures might have some insight as to what i would find when that hits a green.

I notice that the trackman stats actually match the lpga avg for  five iron HA!  Just with 20 yds more carry.  Maybe i'm in the wrong forum.

[greenadam21]

Lucous

Looking over the trackman data.  Which does measure the club i definetly see what you are getting at.

92mph club getting them 127 ball speed

my supposed 84 mph club is getting me 123 ball speed

My real club head speed is more like 89 or so...again the foresight measures the ball only.  And all other numbers match.

thanks again for the response.

Adam

[LuciusWooding]

OK that makes a bit more sense, your clubhead speed is probably more like 88-90 or so. I was using the same chart as a reference, so I think we're on the same page here. Seems more likely than getting a 1.45 smash factor with a mid iron. Those types of LMs typically just calculate based on a preset smash factor, so trust Trackman over a shop's monitor.

I've noticed with my own irons, though I can't generalize completely, but I think the C tapers perform best when you load them a bit. They're designed for a quick tempo and high spin players and I find they feel smoother with an aggressive swing. The same swing with a typical stiff shaft will result in the clubhead whipping everywhere. Drives me nuts... They'll keep dispersion tight even if you put a bit extra on. But on shorter shots it's best to keep the swing short and accelerate hard rather than swing smooth. If you have a long and smooth full swing, you might not get these shafts to work that well for you either. But I have no problem personally with loading them for any shot with my irons, from 3-PW. I would go with something smoother in my SW/LW, but I'd gladly put them in my hybrid if I could. I've never used a shaft I didn't have to flight the ball down with until this one, but this one works.

I'm not much of a fitter, but I find a heavier shaft helps me with dispersion and controlled launch more than anything. I hit my 78g r flex driver better than my 63g S flex, and my 130g C tapers better than lighter iron shafts. You went from 130g to 120, so it's possible you got the high launch from that, or from being unused to the flex. I can hit my C tapers extra high if I want, but typically they stay on a good trajectory automatically when hit well. When I want to hit them low, I can hit them pretty low too. They're extremely stable, don't have a big kick or lag feeling, but still let you know when you're loading them. I felt like I could have played either S or X straight in without a problem, such is the ability of the shaft to handle my swing. If you liked the feel, consider testing one of the other flexes in either direction, or even the old standby Dynamic Gold which has the weight and a bit of flex to it, but launches lower than KBS. You could also consider switching balls, but that probably won't make more than a couple hundred rpms of difference, and it's a big change for good players.

You're a +3hcp, so obviously you can hit the ball pretty well. If you don't think it's right, you obviously know your stuff. It's not as if your manhood relies on playing C tapers, and there's little point messing with something that got you to that level.

[greenadam21]

All very well put.

[greenadam21]

Also i agree these are incredibly smooth shafts and I am also heavy shaft player..Tries lighter like the PX but I cant stand that feel.

[greenadam21]

new numbers today...and i rechecked the swing speed on the track man...cant spend a lot of time on thier unit but 5 swings all were in 89-92 mph range