Left Shoulder -- Downswing and Through Impact

[cipher]

Great topic guys, this is something that I really struggle with and had a hard time getting as I was taking my evolvr lessons.   It is really hard to grasp for a lot of us.  The video by Mike really is helpful though in understanding this.  Makes me realize though just how far I still have to go.  Can't wait for my range to open up so I can sign back up and continue working on this.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by cipher

Great topic guys, this is something that I really struggle with and had a hard time getting as I was taking my evolvr lessons.   It is really hard to grasp for a lot of us.  The video by Mike really is helpful though in understanding this.  Makes me realize though just how far I still have to go.  Can't wait for my range to open up so I can sign back up and continue working on this.

Same here.  When working on this (as well as other movements during the downswing), it makes me realize just how important the sequencing and timing of these movements all coming together is.  Tonight I couldn't even really put this together in a full swing.  Taking half swings (starting from the position at the top) or half-speed swings allows me to put the proper movement together, but it's still habit to do it incorrectly.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Yeri

This is something I am struggling with, how do you get the arms to move like that? I always end up with way too much shoulder, and swipe across the ball with poor contact. What kind of feels work for this, or even which muscles should fire in order to make that kind of move?

Check out the videos that deal with Key #2 and this one on Key #4 http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread#post_785397  A good feel is to flex the left knee on the downswing and feel more pressure towards the toes of your left foot.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread

[iacas]

I'm just going to go back to the first post, and point this out: from 90° torso turn, the left shoulder is constantly moving upward some amount. Might I recommend a variation of this kind of work :

More here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/43987/my-swing-iacas/100_100#post_807071

I hesitate to post this because I hate the "my lesson is your lesson" mentality, and I almost try to avoid it at any turn lest I be guilty of doing it a little bit, but it may help. Now, to counter what I just said:

---

You need to diagnose the root cause. Are your arms late coming down? Do you lack lateral slide and simply turn on the downswing? Does your backswing extend too long with the arms or too short with the torso turn? Is your address position good? How's the knee-work?

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by iacas

You need to diagnose the root cause. Are your arms late coming down? Do you lack lateral slide and simply turn on the downswing? Does your backswing extend too long with the arms or too short with the torso turn? Is your address position good? How's the knee-work?

1.) Yes.

2.) No.

3.) Yes - too long.

4.) Yes.

5.) Could be better.

Now what?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Now what?

This isn't your thread...?

The point was many things can "cause" the shoulder to be too high. Find the root cause, or the biggest root cause, and work on that.

And Shawn, you missed one. :)

[Beachcomber]

Seriously, quick question... Speaking to the cause and effect side of the left shoulder coming out of the shot early... We keep talking about how to fix this... But I'm not 100% clear on what the effect of a left shoulder pulling out of the shot early does.  I'm like 80% clear at the moment... And would like to get to 100%.  So back to my question... What is the effect of the left shoulder going up too fast through impact?

I'm guessing that it causes your AoA to be too much down?  So the effect would be:

a.) You'll have issues controlling your low point.

b.) You'll be slamming the club into the ground.

c.) Your spin numbers will be too high for the club in hand...

These are educated guesses here... But again, I'm not 100% clear on this entire left shoulder rising early effect.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by iacas

And Shawn, you missed one. :)

I fail!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Seriously, quick question... Speaking to the cause and effect side of the left shoulder coming out of the shot early... We keep talking about how to fix this... But I'm not 100% clear on what the effect of a left shoulder pulling out of the shot early does.  I'm like 80% clear at the moment... And would like to get to 100%.  So back to my question... What is the effect of the left shoulder going up too fast through impact?

I'm guessing that it causes your AoA to be too much down?  So the effect would be:

The opposite is more often true.

Unless perhaps you're talking about STEEP shoulders, in which case it's a coin flip - it could cause steeper AoA, shallower AoA, or no real change.

The golf swing is not cause-effect this way. We can't talk about things this broadly, this generally, this poorly defined.

If the left shoulder is out of position, you need to look at WHY it's out of position, AND you need to clarify what you mean by "high" - rotated too far along the circle, too steep, too high relative to what (right shoulder? golf ball?), etc.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by iacas

The opposite is more often true.

Unless perhaps you're talking about STEEP shoulders, in which case it's a coin flip - it could cause steeper AoA, shallower AoA, or no real change.

The golf swing is not cause-effect this way. We can't talk about things this broadly, this generally, this poorly defined.

If the left shoulder is out of position, you need to look at WHY it's out of position, AND you need to clarify what you mean by "high" - rotated too far along the circle, too steep, too high relative to what (right shoulder? golf ball?), etc.

OP wants to keep his left shoulder down.  My question is... Why should we do this?  I've been told I need to keep my left shoulder down... Why should I do this?

Dana's latest video on Brandt - talks about keeping the left shoulder down... Why?

My point is why is the left shoulder so important? Because left shoulder helps controls the low point?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

OP wants to keep his left shoulder down.

No, the OP says: " I feel like one of my biggest flaws is when my left shoulder feels like it is rising towards the sky as my hands are still going down towards the ball just before impact."

Feel ain't real, and even if it real in the OP's case, it's still very likely the RESULT of a problem, not the CAUSE of a problem.

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

My question is... Why should we do this?  I've been told I need to keep my left shoulder down... Why should I do this?

Your answer may be different than someone else's.

[Beachcomber]

Ok, so I remain confused and asking this question.  Great...

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Ok, so I remain confused and asking this question.  Great...

Just ask the right question. Ask about the causes, not the effects/results. :)

[cipher]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

OP wants to keep his left shoulder down.  My question is... Why should we do this?  I've been told I need to keep my left shoulder down... Why should I do this?

Dana's latest video on Brandt - talks about keeping the left shoulder down... Why?

My point is why is the left shoulder so important?  Because left shoulder helps controls the low point?

Just check out the first video by Mike.  It has all the answers to your question there.  Look at the angles when you raise the shoudler like he does on the left, and how early the club releases.  Loss of power and inconsistent ball striking I believe.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by cipher

Just check out the first video by Mike.  It has all the answers to your question there.  Look at the angles when you raise the shoudler like he does on the left, and how early the club releases.  Loss of power and inconsistent ball striking I believe.

The nip video?

[cipher]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Brandon,

I assume you haven't seen this video yet? It's about what causes the left shoulder to rise excessively and lose wrist angles. Mike posted it a few days ago:

This one, the left side is loosing wrist angles, loosing power, losing consistency.

[bplewis24]

Without doing some recent filming of my current swing, the above vid seems to explain what happens with my swing when things go bad.  I'm guessing I also sometimes over-rotate the shoulders and get excessive head-movement as well.

[tim1025]

I have the exact problem when not hitting well. My main thought to correct is to keep my lead shoulder strong at impact. I say it often enough that one of my playing partners knows to remind me. The other thing that helps is to start downswing with arms. The real problem seems to be the left shoulder getting ahead of the swing. If u stand at address and turn left shoulder out u will see the clubface open and direction facing left causing out to in swing.