iacas

Number of 5SK Earned vs. Handicap

48 posts in this topic

We have the chart, but I'm curious what y'all think the line or curve would look like if you plotted the number of the 5SK a player "possesses" or "earns" and their handicap index.

Consider a chart from +5 (PGA Tour level ability) to 27.

Remember that 0 keys is also on the chart.

Describe the shape. Plot it out and post the graphic here. Put #keys on the bottom axis from 0 to 5, and handicap index on the left axis.

I'll give the person who gives the best answer a license to Scorecard or something else I can conjure up.

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It took me until college to realize that it was best to go first when you had to give a speech to the class, rather than sit shaking with nerves and wait until the end.

So here is my guess:

It's solely based on myself and a handful of other golfers I've observed.  Seems like you can hack it around in the mid 90's easily enough without really any real hint of a key - which is my justification for putting the first earned key at 19.  I think I have 2, and am fairly close to a third, which is my basis for putting the 3 keys earned at an 8 handicap.  I put the 5 keys earned at a 1 handicap, figuring that those last few strokes between shooting 74's and 68's regularly probably have a lot to do with putting and course management.

Anyways, that's what I came up with.

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Here's what I came up with: My rationale: 0 keys has to be correlated with a fairly high handicap, just because there are so many more bad players in the world. It's an average, so that number has to be high. Same rationale for 1 key. 2 keys is where it gets more important, I have it at a 7 handicap. I have 3, 4, and 5 keys clustered together between 2 and +1 (labelled as -1 on the chart). I wasn't exactly sure what do do here, but I went with that sort of cluster because I think at that level, most of the golfers are close to getting all 5 keys, but probably haven't perfected a few of them. Just thinking of myself as an example, I'm still officially a 1.4 (mostly because I simply didn't play many rounds last year, I fully admit), but I'm not so sure I've locked down more than a key or two. I'm not perfect on any, really. I'm pretty close on 4 and 5, up-and-down on 3, and working on 1 and 2 (which will help 3, 4, and 5, etc.). I think that's related to the fact that it's about 1000 times more difficult to go from a 5 to a 0 than it is to go from a 30 to a 20. I definitely don't think it's linear, but a lot of this has to do with how you define "possessing" or "earning" a key, how hard on yourself you are, if the standards for earning a key change with handicap (e.g. when I was a 15 my key 1 was fine for a 15 handicapper, and though it hasn't changed much since then it's poor for a 1.5), etc.
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Assuming your data is the average of all your students (or something close to that):

This basically follows where I think I am with my lessons.  Looking at golfingdad, who took the same approach, it seems pretty similar.  I think I've just graduated from weight shift, though I feel like I'm working on sweetspot path, not left wrist, but I could be wrong.** I would imagine that getting all 5 gets you low, but not quite to scratch.  From there it would be tweaking?

The numbers I put are

0 27
1 16
2 11
3 8
4 6
5 4

Assuming Haney-eque cherry picking

*I dont know why i can't make a chart that ends at 5.

**I think it would be cool if you guys incorporated the keys more into evolvr. I think I can tell that the instruction is progressing through the keys, but it would be cool if you would just come right out and say "key 1 complete! now on to key 2" or something like that.  Or maybe i just haven't achieved any

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I haven't thought too hard about it (are we supposed to be doing an average?), but here's my guess. I think that 5th key is pretty tough to get.

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Originally Posted by jamo

Here's what I came up with:

My rationale:

0 keys has to be correlated with a fairly high handicap, just because there are so many more bad players in the world. It's an average, so that number has to be high. Same rationale for 1 key. 2 keys is where it gets more important, I have it at a 7 handicap. I have 3, 4, and 5 keys clustered together between 2 and +1 (labelled as -1 on the chart).

I wasn't exactly sure what do do here, but I went with that sort of cluster because I think at that level, most of the golfers are close to getting all 5 keys, but probably haven't perfected a few of them. Just thinking of myself as an example, I'm still officially a 1.4 (mostly because I simply didn't play many rounds last year, I fully admit), but I'm not so sure I've locked down more than a key or two. I'm not perfect on any, really. I'm pretty close on 4 and 5, up-and-down on 3, and working on 1 and 2 (which will help 3, 4, and 5, etc.).

I think that's related to the fact that it's about 1000 times more difficult to go from a 5 to a 0 than it is to go from a 30 to a 20.

I definitely don't think it's linear, but a lot of this has to do with how you define "possessing" or "earning" a key, how hard on yourself you are, if the standards for earning a key change with handicap (e.g. when I was a 15 my key 1 was fine for a 15 handicapper, and though it hasn't changed much since then it's poor for a 1.5), etc.

I'm not going to do my own because I think it would pretty much duplicate this.  I think that 2 keys easily gets someone into the mid single digit range and as a result, I don't think the average mid-to-high handicap player knows just how bad their fundamentals are.

I'll add one additional comment......I also think it's 1000 times harder to go from a 5 to a 0 than it is to go from 20 to 10 too......well, ok, maybe only 800 times harder.  DAMN those last 5 strokes are tough!

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Its tough to say, i would rank some keys more valuable than others, and almost to the point that some keys promote other keys, but this is inherent in the persons ability to play golf. Yet there are other aspects that might take into account.

If i had to rank the 5 keys in terms of importance

Steady Head

Weight Forward

Flat Left Wrist

Diagonal Sweet Spot

Club Face Control

For me at any level, the ability of a golfer to perform the 5 keys is inverted

Higher handicapers would be able to control the clubface, it easy to open it up at address, learn the ball flight laws, ect. This is the easiest to learn and implement.

I almost willing to throw out diagonal sweet spot, because really good golfers can play with a pull, or pull cut.

Flat left wrist, i almost say can be helped out by the top two, because if your weights back, you got to loose the flat left wrist to hit the ball first. So, in some regard that is controlled by the top two as well.

That's the graph i think represents key's versus handicap, Since there will be ranges of handicaps that have maybe 2 keys, that is shown there vertically from 10-15 handicap. To me this represents better than a single dot, fitting a curve to the line. Because we are representing whole numbers, the graph should be a step function.

Also, the reason why i have 3 keys going out to single digit handicap is because i wanted to show consistency of the having 3 keys. Meaning, they might be able to perform such keys 80% of the time, this shows the inconsistency of the player and the reason they might look like they have a solid swing, but end up shooting higher. Does this mean they don't exhibit 3, 4, or 5 of the keys, no, it just means they are not as proficient as a professional or another single digit handicapper.

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Thanks. BTW, I didn't set an end date - we'll share our data this Friday sometime, and so the contest ends when I post my data. Sometime Friday, February 24.

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Originally Posted by iacas

Thanks. BTW, I didn't set an end date - we'll share our data this Friday sometime, and so the contest ends when I post my data. Sometime Friday, February 24.

Date does not exist unitl 2017, do we have to wait that long

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Date does not exist unitl 2017, do we have to wait that long:whistle:

American calendar.....similar to daylight savings time. Happens only in February in a year following a leap year. Try to keep up. ;-)

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Originally Posted by David in FL

American calendar.....similar to daylight savings time. Happens only in February in a year following a leap year.

Try to keep up.

Not sure even I follow you here, David.  MacDutch was just joking with Erik that this coming Friday, today, is the 22nd and there isn't going to be a Friday, February 24th until 2017.

What am I missing?

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Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Not sure even I follow you here, David.  MacDutch was just joking with Erik that this coming Friday, today, is the 22nd and there isn't going to be a Friday, February 24th until 2017.

What am I missing?

The sarcasm.

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My chart is heavily bottom loaded meaning if you have 2 keys you are already a single digit. I could even convince myself you could be lower. But I think keys 4 and 5 are really hard and only reserved for the really good players.
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I would think keys 3 and 5 are really hard gets.

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Originally Posted by nevets88

I would think keys 3 and 5 are really hard gets.

That would be a poll in and of itself.  I find Key 1 to be harder than Keys 2 and 3, and perhaps even 4.  Key 5???  Forget about it!

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That would be a poll in and of itself.  I find Key 1 to be harder than Keys 2 and 3, and perhaps even 4.  Key 5???  Forget about it!

I second key 1 being a bitch! Starting to be pretty solid on the way back but downswing??? Hard!!

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