GPS Watches

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Unplayable lie. Problem solved.

And btw, to anyone who is *not* playing by every little teeny tiny rule but still claims a handicap: That handicap is only an estimate.

i don't have a handicap.  i put a guess in my avatar because i got sick of people asking every time i created a thread.

and i'm pretty sure there was no prereq when signing up for thesandtrap that i must follow all rules of golf, so...maybe get over it?

[stealthduffer]

Originally Posted by 1484

Obviously it's a personal taste thing and everyone needs to do what works for them.  For me, I found it very distracting to pull out my phone, unlock it, load the ap and then enter the data for recording clubs and distance and such.  Also, I get a ton of work email all day long and found it harder to ignore email and focus on my game when I was pulling out the phone up and down the fairway.

I have the Garmin S-1 and really like just glancing at my wrist and then picking the club and swinging away.  No question that you can get the exact same data (and much more) in a $.99 ap or even in some of the free applications, so it's really a choice of "form factor" and what works for you and how you play the game.

Agree with this totally.  My smart phone is my work phone - and the last thing I want with me on the golf course is a phone and especially my work phone.  In addition our sys admin sets lock for about a nanosecond so I would be constantly unlocking.  But I can see the appeal for someone who has a personal smart phone.  I love my Skycaddy and the only thing calling me on it are the sirens telling me that yes, you can clear that water hazard!

[idgolfguy]

In Australia, we have club competition twice or thrice every week. It is when most of us get to play our golf. If I'm playing socially, there usually a stake on it. If you don't follow the rules, that is cheating. I have taken relief with penalty many times to save potential injury or damage. That's what penalties are for.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Unplayable lie. Problem solved.

And btw, to anyone who is *not* playing by every little teeny tiny rule but still claims a handicap: That handicap is only an estimate.

i don't have a handicap.  i put a guess in my avatar because i got sick of people asking every time i created a thread.

and i'm pretty sure there was no prereq when signing up for thesandtrap that i must follow all rules of golf, so...maybe get over it?

Not sure what I'm supposed to be getting over. I'm just saying I don't see how you can even guess at a handicap if you don't know or aren't playing by all the rules.

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Not sure what I'm supposed to be getting over. I'm just saying I don't see how you can even guess at a handicap if you don't know or aren't playing by all the rules.

well not just you, several other people flipped out at the thought someone who plays golf doesn't play it to every rule 100%.  you guys react as if i am giving myself 6 foot putts and not adding penalty strokes when i lose my tee shot, when in fact i'm talking about much more minute rules that are silly for an amateur golfer.

i.e., if i walk up to my ball and touch it with my club accidentally and it moves but doesn't physically relocate, i will never call that a stroke.  if i walk onto a green at a cheap muni and there are spike marks in my line to the hole, i will always repair them and never consider that not repairing them is a rule violation.  (though the funny thing about both of those rules is that you are allowed to move your ball once it is on the green, which i think is completely contradictory to 'playing it as it lies').  similarly, if my gps app doesn't abide by the rules but i'm using it to do exactly the same thing as your rule-abiding gps standalone unit, that will never be a rule violation in my game.

and for the record, if you're a weekend golfer who wants to keep your own handicap index in your back pocket for reference, i don't think any of the aforementioned violations should affect your score.  professionals being docked for "oops" mistakes is one thing, amateurs that play for fun is completely different.  and those are only a few examples of silly rules for amateurs; i'm sure there are hundreds more (such as an accidental grounding of club in a trap) that just flat out don't make any sense outside of a registered competition.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/9549/what-do-you-consider-the-most-stupid-rule-in-golf

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Not sure what I'm supposed to be getting over. I'm just saying I don't see how you can even guess at a handicap if you don't know or aren't playing by all the rules.

well not just you, several other people flipped out at the thought someone who plays golf doesn't play it to every rule 100%.  you guys react as if i am giving myself 6 foot putts and not adding penalty strokes when i lose my tee shot, when in fact i'm talking about much more minute rules that are silly for an amateur golfer.

i.e., if i walk up to my ball and touch it with my club accidentally and it moves but doesn't physically relocate, i will never call that a stroke.  if i walk onto a green at a cheap muni and there are spike marks in my line to the hole, i will always repair them and never consider that not repairing them is a rule violation.  similarly, if my gps app doesn't abide by the rules but i'm using it to do exactly the same thing as your rule-abiding gps standalone unit, that will never be a rule violation in my game.

and for the record, if you're a weekend golfer who wants to keep your own handicap index in your back pocket for reference, i don't think any of the aforementioned violations should affect your score.  professionals being docked for "oops" mistakes is one thing, amateurs that play for fun is completely different.  and those are only a few examples of silly rules for amateurs; i'm sure there are hundreds more that just flat out don't make any sense outside of a registered competition.

That's all fine except I didn't see anyone flipping out over you not playing by all the rules. What I did see was a couple people (like me) simply pointing out that a handicap is not going to be accurate if you don't.  If that's flipping out in your book, so be it, but I couldn't care less what rules you play by. The issue is with you playing by your own rules and *not* having a "~" in front of your handicap. I don't care what your handicap is either, just making the point that it's not valid if you're not playing by the rules.

(Actually the only point of me originally posting before it got off on this tangent was that you're allowed to move your ball off a rock or stump, which you didn't seem to realize. Just trying to help.)

It's also fine that you think you can pick and choose what rules affect your handicap and which don't, but if (as you implied) you're not taking a penalty stroke for moving your ball off a rock or stump, which will definitely affect your score, then who knows what else you're doing that would affect it. You don't have to answer to me obviously, just something to think about.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

And btw, to anyone who is *not* playing by every little teeny tiny rule but still claims a handicap: That handicap is only an estimate.

Originally Posted by tuffluck

and i'm pretty sure there was no prereq when signing up for thesandtrap that i must follow all rules of golf, so...maybe get over it?

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Not sure what I'm supposed to be getting over. I'm just saying I don't see how you can even guess at a handicap if you don't know or aren't playing by all the rules.

Because your original comment comes across as a little snotty and "holier than thou" and not practical.  I can name a few rules that I don't follow all the time and I can promise you that my handicap is quite accurate.  Here's an example:  If I am chipping  from off the green and choose to leave the flag in, and I chip it to 6", I'm not about to waste everybody's time putting my wedge in my bag and grabbing my putter, then remove the flagstick, putt it in, and then pull the ball out, and replace the flagstick.  In that situation, I will either pick the ball up or I will blade it into the hole with the flagstick in.  Counting the penalty strokes for hitting the stick would be blatant sandbagging in my book.  When you're playing casual rounds on busy courses you certainly play by the rules but within the framework of keeping everything moving.  It's not really practical or necessary to bother with "every teeny tiny rule."  The example up above?  Sure.  Take an unplayable.  But "every teeny tiny rule?"  Not necessary.

Another example is a lost ball.  Not a "oh, I hit that into the trees, I better hit a provisional" lost ball, but the "it must have been picked up or rolled into a gopher hole" type lost ball where you wouldn't have even considered the need to hit a provisional.  It just isn't necessary or practical to drive back to the tee (assuming you're on a busy course and there are already people waiting) to hit again.  In a tournament?  Of course.  Casual round?  Make you best guess as to where it was, add your strokes and move on.  (Furthermore, if I saw somebody drive off with it - on rare occasions, it's happened - I'm dropping where it was and I'm not adding any strokes.  So sue me.)

So considering all of that, I think his "get over it" comment wasn't out of line.  Maybe a "lighten up" or a "relax" would have been a little better though? :)

And yes, I acknowledge that I am exascerbating the off topic-ness of this thread right now.  Shame on me!  (Slap on wrist)  Now back on the topic of GPS watches. :)

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

well not just you, several other people flipped out at the thought someone who plays golf doesn't play it to every rule 100%.  you guys react as if i am giving myself 6 foot putts and not adding penalty strokes when i lose my tee shot, when in fact i'm talking about much more minute rules that are silly for an amateur golfer.

i.e., if i walk up to my ball and touch it with my club accidentally and it moves but doesn't physically relocate, i will never call that a stroke.  if i walk onto a green at a cheap muni and there are spike marks in my line to the hole, i will always repair them and never consider that not repairing them is a rule violation.  (though the funny thing about both of those rules is that you are allowed to move your ball once it is on the green, which i think is completely contradictory to 'playing it as it lies').  similarly, if my gps app doesn't abide by the rules but i'm using it to do exactly the same thing as your rule-abiding gps standalone unit, that will never be a rule violation in my game.

and for the record, if you're a weekend golfer who wants to keep your own handicap index in your back pocket for reference, i don't think any of the aforementioned violations should affect your score.  professionals being docked for "oops" mistakes is one thing, amateurs that play for fun is completely different.  and those are only a few examples of silly rules for amateurs; i'm sure there are hundreds more (such as an accidental grounding of club in a trap) that just flat out don't make any sense outside of a registered competition.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/9549/what-do-you-consider-the-most-stupid-rule-in-golf

You can play the game however you like.

Following the Rules of Golf is an all or nothing proposition.  You either follow all the rules or you're not playing by the Rules of Golf and shouldn't count your score towards an official handicap if you participate in tournaments.   Using a smart phone with a built in compass and weather app that reports wind speed and direction is violation of the rules.  It may seem like a stupid rule to you, just as you believe accidently moving your ball is, but those are the rules.

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

That's all fine except I didn't see anyone flipping out over you not playing by all the rules. What I did see was a couple people (like me) simply pointing out that a handicap is not going to be accurate if you don't.  If that's flipping out in your book, so be it, but I couldn't care less what rules you play by. The issue is with you playing by your own rules and *not* having a "~" in front of your handicap. I don't care what your handicap is either, just making the point that it's not valid if you're not playing by the rules.

(Actually the only point of me originally posting before it got off on this tangent was that you're allowed to move your ball off a rock or stump, which you didn't seem to realize. Just trying to help.)

It's also fine that you think you can pick and choose what rules affect your handicap and which don't, but if (as you implied) you're not taking a penalty stroke for moving your ball off a rock or stump, which will definitely affect your score, then who knows what else you're doing that would affect it. You don't have to answer to me obviously, just something to think about.

actually i think if you go back and look, the original concern was that a gps app could be illegal.  i simply said as long as you aren't using it to cheat, who cares, because it's not like the average golfer follows all of the rules anyway.  after that comment several people felt the need to defend the rules of the game, and we end up here.

i really don't care what rules people play by either, but i think if you're really concerned about the legality of a cell phone gps app, then don't get it.  but the reality is that it isn't a violation that's going to give you an advantage over the guy with the (legal) bushnell as long as you aren't using it to get wind speeds and such that was previously mentioned (and i don't use it for that).

and for the record i would take relief and a penalty if my ball landed on a rock, though i didn't know that was the actual rule since i have seen pros elect to hit off of the surface instead.  exception for me being if i was pretty certain i could catch the ball cleanly but didn't want to take a chance, the ball would be moving and i wouldn't be counting.  i acquired this personal revision when on day one of owning, my vokey ran into the cart path and lost about $15 worth of it's head.  the ball landed on the green and i made the par putt, never mind the obstruction/destruction after the strike of the ball occurred.  never again, but that's just me.

[NM Golf]

Ok let's get back on topic, myself included

[sacm3bill]

Quote:

[Examples of not playing by the rules]

Every example you gave is covered under the rules for estimating your score for handicap purposes. Gimme putts are fine. Dropping for a lost ball instead of going back to the tee on a busy course, and adding 2 strokes, is fine. Moving your ball off a rock and not taking a penalty stroke is *not* fine, and doing things like that often enough will affect your handicap.  That may sound snotty, but it's true. :-)

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Every example you gave is covered under the rules for estimating your score for handicap purposes. Gimme putts are fine. Dropping for a lost ball instead of going back to the tee on a busy course, and adding 2 strokes, is fine. Moving your ball off a rock and not taking a penalty stroke is *not* fine, and doing things like that often enough will affect your handicap.  That may sound snotty, but it's true. :-)

Correcting him on that one rule doesn't sounds snotty at all, and I agree with it.  Saying you have to "follow every teeny tiny rule" is what came across as snotty.  You conveniently left out the qualifer referring to those "teeny tiny rules" that you can break and yet still have a legitimate handicap.

My reaction to those comments is quite similar to tufflucks.  Something that involves an eye roll or mumbling to myself "oh please, get over yourself."

Anywhos ...

I have a GPS app on the phone (golfshot, $30) and tend to agree with 1484 (post #4 - sorry I didn't quote it here) that it's just a little cumbersome.  I don't like the feeling of the phone in my pocket while I'm playing, so it kind of becomes enough of a pain that it's not worth it.  The watch seems like it'd be a great alternative, however, at $200 or thereabouts, its above my price limit.  I'll stick with the combo of the gps on some holes when I feel like breaking it out and unlocking it, and sprinkler heads on the other.  Or just mooching distances off of playing partners who are more religious about it or have lasers. :)

[Fourputt]

What I can't see is paying $200 for a marginal GPS unit which really gives no more information than what is freely available by using the course markings on most courses.  That is more of a waste of money than paying double that price for a unit which gives all of the distance information that you need to play every shot from tee to green.  For those of us who actually do care about the Rules of Golf, smart phone apps have been found to be questionably legal at best.  I have no interest in paying for anything which I can't use in all circumstances.  The other consideration is that many smart phones don't use true GPS locating, but triangulate from cell towers.   Get off the beaten track and they are useless.

In the end we all do what we feel works for us, but I will always recommend a full featured, high end GPS as the best all around tool for use on course.

[allin]

I feel there are two big advantages to the watch, I have a garmin. The convenience, no in and out of bag or pocket. Simplicity, I find my other devices I have had are over kill. If one of the reasons for distance devices is speeding up play the watch beats other devices, it is right there on your wrist all the time.

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

What I can't see is paying $200 for a marginal GPS unit which really gives no more information than what is freely available by using the course markings on most courses.  That is more of a waste of money than paying double that price for a unit which gives all of the distance information that you need to play every shot from tee to green.  For those of us who actually do care about the Rules of Golf, smart phone apps have been found to be questionably legal at best.  I have no interest in paying for anything which I can't use in all circumstances.  The other consideration is that many smart phones don't use true GPS locating, but triangulate from cell towers.   Get off the beaten track and they are useless.

In the end we all do what we feel works for us, but I will always recommend a full featured, high end GPS as the best all around tool for use on course.

i guess it depends on your app, but i have played courses with GPS and my phone has always been just as accurate as the GPS no matter where i land.  i read this on the USGA website:

The device has some other non-conforming feature, including, but not limited to, recommendations that might assist the player in making a stroke or in his play, such as club selection, type of shot to be played (e.g., punch shot, pitch and run, etc.), or green reading (i.e., a recommended line of putt), or other advice-related matters. However, it is permissible to use such a device, during a stipulated round, to access distance information from previous rounds that has been processed prior to the commencement of the current round (e.g., a chart of all club yardages), or;

the app i have does not have temperature, club recs, wind speed, etc.  it only shows distances.  it also allows you to track distances and review them later, which apparently by this rule is legal.  i might be tense about pulling it out in a competition, but in weekend play i can't see any violation of the rules, at least for the app which i am using (sky droid).

so i think the theme here that apps are illegal should perhaps be modified, as it doesn't seem like it would be illegal as long as you use them for distance only.

[el shanko]

i have a garmin approch s3, xmas present from the boss. some guys use their android phones w apps. too clumsy, myself jump out of the cart check the yardage grab a club (usually i have "that" club for that shot lol ) wack "o chit" jump back into the cart and find that damn ball. seriously it nice you can check your lay up yardage or pin placement on the green. but at $350 i would have not purchased it because of my skill level. but that is improving.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

What I can't see is paying $200 for a marginal GPS unit which really gives no more information than what is freely available by using the course markings on most courses.  That is more of a waste of money than paying double that price for a unit which gives all of the distance information that you need to play every shot from tee to green.  For those of us who actually do care about the Rules of Golf, smart phone apps have been found to be questionably legal at best.  I have no interest in paying for anything which I can't use in all circumstances.  The other consideration is that many smart phones don't use true GPS locating, but triangulate from cell towers.   Get off the beaten track and they are useless.

In the end we all do what we feel works for us, but I will always recommend a full featured, high end GPS as the best all around tool for use on course.

i guess it depends on your app, but i have played courses with GPS and my phone has always been just as accurate as the GPS no matter where i land.  i read this on the USGA website:

The device has some other non-conforming feature, including, but not limited to, recommendations that might assist the player in making a stroke or in his play, such as club selection, type of shot to be played (e.g., punch shot, pitch and run, etc.), or green reading (i.e., a recommended line of putt), or other advice-related matters. However, it is permissible to use such a device, during a stipulated round, to access distance information from previous rounds that has been processed prior to the commencement of the current round (e.g., a chart of all club yardages), or;

the app i have does not have temperature, club recs, wind speed, etc.  it only shows distances.  it also allows you to track distances and review them later, which apparently by this rule is legal.  i might be tense about pulling it out in a competition, but in weekend play i can't see any violation of the rules, at least for the app which i am using (sky droid).

so i think the theme here that apps are illegal should perhaps be modified, as it doesn't seem like it would be illegal as long as you use them for distance only.

As has been mentioned, some phones have a compass, or a compass app, and that immediately gets one onto shaky ground.  There are so many apps which a phone can have that would make it illegal for play.  It's because a phone can have all of those other things with nobody any the wiser that many competitions are not allowing them.  Just because your distance app doesn't show anything else, it doesn't mean that some other app on your phone won't do something which isn't allowed.

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

As has been mentioned, some phones have a compass, or a compass app, and that immediately gets one onto shaky ground.  There are so many apps which a phone can have that would make it illegal for play.  It's because a phone can have all of those other things with nobody any the wiser that many competitions are not allowing them.  Just because your distance app doesn't show anything else, it doesn't mean that some other app on your phone won't do something which isn't allowed.

i get that, i think my point is being missed though: if you're a weekend golfer and not using the "cheating" mechanisms of your phone's apps, i don't think what you're doing should be considered violating any rule.

players on the PGA Tour can't wear shorts during competition.  does that mean when i wear shorts on a Saturday golf outing that i should disqualify that particular score from a handicap calculation?