Any stats or proof of just how good/precise a pro golfer is?

[watty]

I was showing my buddy (who thinks he knows everything) the Mickelson shot off the cart path. He was claiming that it was a lucky shot, and of course, knowing golf, I pointed out that for a guy like Mickelson, it wasn't luck. It was skill and he was confident in his ability to hit that shot. So my buddy asks how many times out of 10 would Mickelson hit a decent shot onto the green, and I said 10. And out of 100, I said, probably 97 or 98 would be on the green. Maybe 2 or 3 would have missed, but anyway, he's going to basically always execute that shot. He was also asking how many times out of 100 a guy like Mickelson could bottom out his club in an exact spot, and I said again, basically every single time. He thought I was incredibly stupid.

So anyway my friend gets all worked up and high and mighty and telling me how stupid I am, but I am pretty sure I'm right. But I was looking around the internet to see if I could find any support. Anyone know of good links that have info on just how consistent and repeatable a pro's swing is?

[TourSpoon]

In all honesty, that is not a hard shot. I had the same shot off from a waste path that was like concrete this weekend. I remember that Phil plans for it to be 5 yards hot. Five seemed to be about right.

We have talked about how good these guys are many times. I have a few stories that I have relayed over the years but one comes to mind. I had a friend that played on the PGA Tour that came and played my home course that I worked at in the 90s and he had 7 birdies that day. He had never seen the course and the greens were not in Tour shape by any means. This guy was so good in Q school one year he shot a 63 at Orange National and then at Doral had a 29 on the back nine to earn his card. He could not retain his card. Take that level of golf and then multiply by factor X and add 40 something victories to it and you get close to Phil's level of expertise. Yes, he is that good.

If that's not enough, Google him on YouTube and watch him flop it over Pelz's head. He has amazing skill.

[MS256]

I'm probably going to catch a lot of heat for saying this but that shot off of the cart path is no harder for me than any other shot, and I would prefer it to a shot out of dormant Bemuda rough or any shot off of wet ground.

Sometimes in our scramble matches we get a ball close to the green under the trees on the hardpan and another ball on the grass. I always lobby for our team to play the hardpan shot (because I know for a fact that I'm not going to mess up that shot).

I usually lose the argument because the rest of the team prefers the ball to be sitting on grass.

Sometimes I have a choice between leaving the ball on a cart path or taking a drop on the grass. I always choose the grass but ONLY because I don't want to scrape up the bounce on my wedge.

The exception to any of that is if a very high flop shot is the only option. I can't hit those off of the cart path.

[RetroJFrancisco]

Originally Posted by watty

I was showing my buddy (who thinks he knows everything) the Mickelson shot off the cart path. He was claiming that it was a lucky shot, and of course, knowing golf, I pointed out that for a guy like Mickelson, it wasn't luck. It was skill and he was confident in his ability to hit that shot. So my buddy asks how many times out of 10 would Mickelson hit a decent shot onto the green, and I said 10. And out of 100, I said, probably 97 or 98 would be on the green. Maybe 2 or 3 would have missed, but anyway, he's going to basically always execute that shot. He was also asking how many times out of 100 a guy like Mickelson could bottom out his club in an exact spot, and I said again, basically every single time. He thought I was incredibly stupid.

So anyway my friend gets all worked up and high and mighty and telling me how stupid I am, but I am pretty sure I'm right. But I was looking around the internet to see if I could find any support. Anyone know of good links that have info on just how consistent and repeatable a pro's swing is?

The Greens hit in regulation usually gives you an indication of the best ballstrikers/straightest players out there..

[dak4n6]

OP, how do you stay friends with this guy?

As for stats that show a pro's abilities, the only ones I can think of are the normal FIR, GIR, scrambling, etc.

I agree that a wedge off of pavement is really not that hard a shot. If you want to make an impression about Lefty's abilities, just keep showing him YT clips of him making one incredible wedge shot after another until he submits - there's got to be about half a million of them.

[watty]

dak- we have a love/hate relationship, haha... But lately he's been arguing with me over ridiculous stuff that he's completely wrong on, sometimes even crazy stuff like mathematical laws that are indisputable. I think there's something else going on but that's another discussion. :) Anyway, he talks out of his ass a lot but on this one, I just wondered if there was some kind of proof I could show him. I didn't know if they had done a sports science thing or if any instructional videos have included any displays of precision or something. Specifically something about the short game and how they can make the same swing every single time.

[saevel25]

He probably thinks its hard because he can't hit the dead pan lie in the summer. Honestly, i find it easier to hit off harder ground than softer, you can bring the bounce in more and get much more predictable shots out of it.

The best wedge shot i ever seen Phil hit was when he was on a severe embankment, and he hit the opposite direction and had the ball go backwards onto the green. Seriously, who think that way, that you can increase the loft and spin so much that it will go backwards, that absurd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgKw_vrymrc

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by saevel25

He probably thinks its hard because he can't hit the dead pan lie in the summer. Honestly, i find it easier to hit off harder ground than softer, you can bring the bounce in more and get much more predictable shots out of it.

The best wedge shot i ever seen Phil hit was when he was on a severe embankment, and he hit the opposite direction and had the ball go backwards onto the green. Seriously, who think that way, that you can increase the loft and spin so much that it will go backwards, that absurd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgKw_vrymrc

I remember that one - absolutely sick.

[RetroJFrancisco]

Originally Posted by saevel25

He probably thinks its hard because he can't hit the dead pan lie in the summer. Honestly, i find it easier to hit off harder ground than softer, you can bring the bounce in more and get much more predictable shots out of it.

The best wedge shot i ever seen Phil hit was when he was on a severe embankment, and he hit the opposite direction and had the ball go backwards onto the green. Seriously, who think that way, that you can increase the loft and spin so much that it will go backwards, that absurd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgKw_vrymrc

That is unreal! I wonder how many takes it took before he hit one that stiff! haha

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by saevel25

He probably thinks its hard because he can't hit the dead pan lie in the summer. Honestly, i find it easier to hit off harder ground than softer, you can bring the bounce in more and get much more predictable shots out of it.

The best wedge shot i ever seen Phil hit was when he was on a severe embankment, and he hit the opposite direction and had the ball go backwards onto the green. Seriously, who think that way, that you can increase the loft and spin so much that it will go backwards, that absurd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgKw_vrymrc

You guys remind me of this:

If you search youtube for "every shot imaginable" there are a few others.

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

You guys remind me of this:

If you search youtube for "every shot imaginable" there are a few others.

LOL, yeah there's another one where they blow up a boat! Here, wait a minute....

[David in FL]

3 shots with the same club.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by David in FL

3 shots with the same club.

LOL ... love the title of the video. ;)

[WUTiger]

Just grab a stack of Golf Digest or Golf Magazine issues. Page through them, and look for articles comparing pros and various levels of amateurs on scrambling percentage, percentage of 5-foot putts made, you name it.

Also, the PGA Tour site http://www.pgatour.com/ has lots of stats on the pros, if you want to get benchmarks for driving length, GIR... on the superguys.

The AT&T; Pebble Beach Nat Pro Am had an interesting feature: the TV announcers did a video swing analysis of the amateurs such as actor Andy Garcia (nails with the irons) and QB Aaron Rodgers (not perfect, but not too bad).

[saevel25]

Statistics wise, the main difference is the long game, overall GIR's and proximity to the hole. Everybody thinks its putting, but there isn't that many strokes saved in putting compared to elsewhere. So you can practice your putting all you want, unless you give yourself an opportunity to use that putting, its worth nothing.

[logman]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Statistics wise, the main difference is the long game, overall GIR's and proximity to the hole. Everybody thinks its putting, but there isn't that many strokes saved in putting compared to elsewhere. So you can practice your putting all you want, unless you give yourself an opportunity to use that putting, its worth nothing.

There were some stats that Lucius Wooding posted here about pros stats. If my memory is correct there was one stat saying that from 150 meters there was a success rate of 60 % or something. Someone could set me straight there. Just seems very underwhelming.

[joekelly]

How would you define 'success' from 150 yds out?  On the green, within 3 yds of the pin, in the hole?  I would agree that top pros 'should' achieve more than 60% on the green, maybe even get within 10 yds from the pin 75% of the time. Even those very unusual shots, like Phil's backwards shot, can be achieved by normal players on occasion, but it's the consistency over time and variable conditions that bring in the $$$.

[newtogolf]

I believe I heard on PGA Tour Radio that this past week Tiger was mid-50's in fairways (57%) and GIR (53%), which I wouldn't consider precise unless you view the scores he posted along with those stats.