Getting my weight forward.......WHY

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

EDIT:  By the way Brandon, WTF is up with all the "this season" and "last season" stuff in your post about ball striking troubles?  You're from Sacramento, right?  Come on, it doesn't get THAT cold up there, no need to take winters off!  Unless you're just being sympathetic towards our midwestern and northeastern friends out there. :)

Man, I felt like I earned the winter off.  2 of my last 4 rounds were in the 70s and a third was an even 80.  I took home the club's annual Reno Championship (last event of the year) and took 2nd in the net club championship.  I practiced 3-4 days a week last summer, and by the time November came around, I was ready to take at least a month off before practicing again.  Next thing you know, it's 40 degrees outside by the time I get off of work and I had no intention of practicing until February at least.  By the time I start up again, I could barely make solid contact!  Needless to say I won't make that mistake again .

Originally Posted by stoverny

The swing has been around for a while and to be honest very few people have even heard of it (no pun intended). There is nothing cult-like about it. It is just a swing that works. It is interesting how quickly you dismiss it, even as you admit you've never even heard of it or tried it.

I have no interest in convincing anyone however I tend to be skeptical of people who mock/dismiss non-conventional wisdom out of hand. No hard feelings I just think you are rather quick to pass judgement considering you freely admit you don't know the swing at all.

I was half-serious about wanting to google it to see what it's about.  I'm just saying that if I were to play the odds, it wouldn't surprise me if it were a gimmick like some of the other super easy, super consistent swings.  I was also making the parallel to some other aspects of swing philosophies that have a really passionate but very obscure following.  I'm not exactly dismissing it, just playing a hunch.  No hard feelings.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by stoverny

The swing is very easy to execute because there is no forearm rotation and no (conscious) weight shift.

Uh oh...I feel like I've heard this somewhere before.  Now you've done it!

[logman]

Originally Posted by stoverny

Why do you assume it must be a flip?  I don't feel like I am flipping at all in fact my contact is more solid and pure than ever.  It is a drive through the ball coming from the inside.  I don't rotate my forearms at all until well after impact.

In reference to the diagram posted, if you move ball position back along with weight, the line of tangency would therefore remain just ahead of the ball, wouldn't it?  Why not just move the ball to a spot that allows a descending blow, from in-to-out, with the club bottoming out just after impact.  It isn't that big of an adjustment since the weight shift to the back leg is not that great to begin with.  And it eliminates the need to shift weight forward (at least consciously).

I am not telling anyone to switch I am only saying that this method DOES work and it has basically eliminated my slice and improved my contact.  It is based on the Jerry Heard Super swing, I suppose you will all label it a gimmick but I am telling you the swing works and when executed correctly I get fantastic contact with either a slight draw or laser-straight ball flight.

Hey Stoverny, do you use the Heard Super Swing grip?

[logman]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Real quick for everyone, yes weight forward helps us move low point forward so we can hit the ball first but is also has a big influence on path.  If my weight stays back or isn't forward enough, there is a very good chance you're going to hit a weak fade/slice because the path will be across the ball.  Test it out, play the ball way forward on an iron shot, like past your left toe, effectively moving the weight back, see what kind of shot you hit.  That's why pre-setting the weight back and "keeping it there" won't work. That's one of the most asinine things I've ever heard.

If you're shooting those scores, then I guarantee your weight/pressure is forward at impact.  Not saying it's 90% forward, doesn't have to be a 90% forward to hit good shots.

Yeah, Absolutely forward. But not as a preset forward or a 90/10 or 80/20 or as a conscious element of the swing. I'd say if I can get back to near 50/50 or 60/40 then that range is all I need to make the swing. What I'm trying to guard against is my upper body twisting too much and my legs and waist having as little influence as possible.

[stoverny]

Yes I do use the HSS grip just as Heard outlines in his book. Took a little getting used to but feels natural now.

[logman]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Normally, I might tend to agree with you.  I am a pretty open minded person, but in this case I think Brandon is right.  Here are the facts that you yourself just stated:

1. It's been around awhile.

2. Very few people have heard of it.

What more info do we need?  If it really worked and has been around for awhile, isn't it logical to assume that it would gain enough traction that we would start hearing about it, especially in places like this forum?  EDIT:  I'd also expect to see top pros using it too if it was that good.

I think it's perfectly fair to compile that information - with the fact that we've never heard of it being one of those pieces of information - to deduce that its probably junk.

Yep, that seems pretty reasonable

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by logman

Yep, that seems pretty reasonable

LOL ... no worries (I speak sarcasm)

[logman]

Originally Posted by stoverny

Yes I do use the HSS grip just as Heard outlines in his book. Took a little getting used to but feels natural now.

It really is some grip isn't it. It tried hitting with the HSS, and wow it's a super powerful grip and body movement. I just couldn't control the hook well enough. I think my lower body just opened up and the pull/hook took over. I didn't stick to it enough to reprogram myself but I could definitly see the potential.

[stoverny]

Originally Posted by logman

It really is some grip isn't it. It tried hitting with the HSS, and wow it's a super powerful grip and body movement. I just couldn't control the hook well enough. I think my lower body just opened up and the pull/hook took over. I didn't stick to it enough to reprogram myself but I could definitly see the potential.

Yes it takes some adjusting coming from a standard grip... definitely the potential to hit some massive pull/hooks if you turn over the forearms too quickly.  It does become more second-nature though with repetition although my miss is still to the left.

The thing I like about the grip is that I feel like my wrists can lag and then power straight through the ball like a hammer... there is no rotation of the club face through impact so it removes that aspect of squaring up the face.  It feels like all the power goes straight through the ball towards the target.

[logman]

Originally Posted by stoverny

Yes it takes some adjusting coming from a standard grip... definitely the potential to hit some massive pull/hooks if you turn over the forearms too quickly.  It does become more second-nature though with repetition although my miss is still to the left.

The thing I like about the grip is that I feel like my wrists can lag and then power straight through the ball like a hammer... there is no rotation of the club face through impact so it removes that aspect of squaring up the face.  It feels like all the power goes straight through the ball towards the target.

I know that laggy feeling you're talking about. I know there's plenty of guys on this site wanting to understand that feeling and I found as soon as I started using the HSS grip I could really get the feel of lag. Good luck with your swing, but this site is a very "this is how you swing the golf club".......no exceptions!

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by logman

I know that laggy feeling you're talking about. I know there's plenty of guys on this site wanting to understand that feeling and I found as soon as I started using the HSS grip I could really get the feel of lag. Good luck with your swing, but this site is a very "this is how you swing the golf club".......no exceptions!

Oh Puh .... lease.  If you actually think that then you have not been paying attention.

In your case, Logman, this site is a very "this is how YOU swing the golf club, and guess what? it's not even close to how YOU THINK you swing the golf club."  Erik has been trying to pound it into your head for weeks now but you refuse to listen.  You don't do what you think and say that you do, and it shows on your videos.

Nobody on here (at least in the 5SK camp) says that there is only one way to swing ... in fact, they say EXACTLY the opposite.  There are a million ways to swing the club, however, there are a few commonalities they've noticed over the years.  Wanna be good?  Learn those.  Wanna suck?  Pick up some obscure swing from the 3 o clock in the morning info-mercials that promises to "cure your slice or your money back" or some other witch doctor type crap and follow it religiously all the while eschewing all common sense from a plethora of really good instructors.

[cipher]

Originally Posted by logman

I know that laggy feeling you're talking about. I know there's plenty of guys on this site wanting to understand that feeling and I found as soon as I started using the HSS grip I could really get the feel of lag. Good luck with your swing, but this site is a very "this is how you swing the golf club".......no exceptions!

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Nobody on here (at least in the 5SK camp) says that there is only one way to swing ... in fact, they say EXACTLY the opposite.  There are a million ways to swing the club, however, there are a few commonalities they've noticed over the years.  Wanna be good?  Learn those.  Wanna suck?  Pick up some obscure swing from the 3 o clock in the morning info-mercials that promises to "cure your slice or your money back" or some other witch doctor type crap and follow it religiously all the while eschewing all common sense from a plethora of really good instructors.

At least he admits he is " Willfully Ignorant"

[logman]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Oh Puh .... lease.  If you actually think that then you have not been paying attention.

In your case, Logman, this site is a very "this is how YOU swing the golf club, and guess what? it's not even close to how YOU THINK you swing the golf club."  Erik has been trying to pound it into your head for weeks now but you refuse to listen.  You don't do what you think and say that you do, and it shows on your videos.

Nobody on here (at least in the 5SK camp) says that there is only one way to swing ... in fact, they say EXACTLY the opposite.  There are a million ways to swing the club, however, there are a few commonalities they've noticed over the years.  Wanna be good?  Learn those.  Wanna suck?  Pick up some obscure swing from the 3 o clock in the morning info-mercials that promises to "cure your slice or your money back" or some other witch doctor type crap and follow it religiously all the while eschewing all common sense from a plethora of really good instructors.

I'll refer you to the "my swing" area..........scroll right the way down and you'll see me hitting the ball with a wrist brace on. The wrist brace eliminates nearly all, and I mean ALL movement from the front wrist.

Under that video is another with the brace taken off. You can try to pick the difference if you can.

You, and a whole bunch of guys poo, pooed the whole Kuykendall method for months. I've showed you that I can hit the ball with out using my front wrist.......look at the video.

I've showed you that I can generate enough power to drive the ball 250 meters plus using a 90 degree elbow hinge and a smaller than usual shoulder turn.......and a front wrist that has no impact in the swing at all.(Kuykendall says less than 10% bend is OK).

Maybe you're so embedded in the "right way" you can't or won't see it.

Geez I hope Stoveny doesn't post his grip pictures. This place will go crazy

[logman]

Originally Posted by cipher

At least he admits he is "Willfully Ignorant"

Yep, well, as you probably know I didn't put that there.......or the little statement at the bottom of my posts........I mean it's a bit silly but all good fun.

[stoverny]

I have to laugh at the 3am infomercial, witch doctor comment. I heard the same type of charges leveled at SnT, and even at 5SK on other golf forums that shall remain nameless. The swing I use works, for me. It did not promise to cure all my golf woes, it only provided a different framework that appealed to me. I gave it a try. I am not a sucker, I don't believe in exaggerated claims. I only care about how well I hit the golf ball. By the way Jerry Heard won 5 times on the PGA tour and finished 5th in the 1972 Masters. He was not some hack. I believe he still teaches down in Florida. To be honest I am not sure why his swing hasn't caught on more. I suspect maybe he could have used a better marketing guy!

[jclark]

Jerry Heard never used the swing he teaches

[stoverny]

That is absolutely true, he created the swing after his tour days were over I believe. Certainly is not used on tour by any players that I know of, although there is certainly a trend towards stronger grips on tour these days. Like I said I don't care too much as long as I am striking the golf ball well. Only posted because some were commenting that they had never even heard of Heard. He was a legitimate pro. And I do think there is legitimate value to his method of swinging a golf club. As always YMMV.

[stoverny]

There are a whole range of swing methods that promote less weight shift, and which probably fly in the face of what most on this site believe to be effective. I am not promoting the Heard swing, that just happened to be the one that appealed to me. My real point is that there are other paradigms for delivering a golf club to the ball that may not fit into what you believe "works", but which work for many people just the same. Obviously it would make more "sense" to try and copy Heard's PGA tour swing - not the one he created later. But why, if the later one is what actually helps me hit a golf ball?