WOW I Finally Get Lag and Release

[Mulligan Jeff]

This is all great stuff I will certainly get on the range and practice by squeezing elbows together in downswing while concentrating on hands forward. Casting is the robber of flush contact that leads to increased distance. I have searched high and low for that elusive swing key to obtain lag, I will try this! Thank you!

[logman]

Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

There is no boogie man in golf...lol. Flipping is when you lose lag pressure and that is what causes speed and "compression" of the golf ball for maximum distance and that back spin that everyone is after. The most important thing is that it will produce a more consistant ball flight for distance etc.

By boogie man I mean every few years there's a new "if you do/don't do..........(insert current boogie man here) then you can't hit the ball properly".

"compression" is just hitting the ball. I can't see how if you hit the ball with your hands in front of the ball then that's "compression" but as soon as the club head goes 1 inch past the hands, then OMG.......that's disaster!!.  If you swing a club at 100 mph with my hands 1 inch infront of the clubhead, does the club then suddenly slow down 2 inches later if the clbhead goes past my hands??

Just on distance, Hasn't trackman showed us that generally, for amateur golfers with slower swing speeds that height in our shots is our friend as far as distance goes? Yes I know I'm mixing a couple of topics here but doesn't trackman tell us that spin is produced by club speed and more club angle not hitting down and de-lofting

[jclark]

By boogie man I mean every few years there's a new "if you do/don't do..........(insert current boogie man here) then you can't hit the ball properly".  "compression" is just hitting the ball. I can't see how if you hit the ball with your hands in front of the ball then that's "compression" but as soon as the club head goes 1 inch past the hands, then OMG.......that's disaster!!.  If you swing a club at 100 mph with my hands 1 inch infront of the clubhead, does the club then suddenly slow down 2 inches later if the clbhead goes past my hands?? Just on distance, Hasn't trackman showed us that generally, for amateur golfers with slower swing speeds that height in our shots is our friend as far as distance goes? Yes I know I'm mixing a couple of topics here but doesn't trackman tell us that spin is produced by club speed and more club angle not hitting down and de-lofting

When you have stored lag on your downswing and your hands are 1" in front of the ball, your club head has a large distance to travel and your hands only travel a fraction in the time it takes for your clubhead to reach the ball; THAT IS TREMENDOUS CLUBHEAD SPEED! If your hand is 1" behind the ball at impact; your clubhead will be exceptionally slower than that of the previous scenario. Does that make sense?

[logman]

Originally Posted by Mulligan Jeff

This is all great stuff I will certainly get on the range and practice by squeezing elbows together in downswing while concentrating on hands forward. Casting is the robber of flush contact that leads to increased distance. I have searched high and low for that elusive swing key to obtain lag, I will try this! Thank you!

Check out a video by Martin Ayres. where he does a drill like this. I'll try to describe it accurately. So he sets up as per normal but puts his club head about 2 feet ahead of the ball(towards the target). Then he goes into his back swing.....dragging the clubhead across the mat like its made of lead and weighs 10 kilos. He drags the club on the inside of the ball and up into his full top of backswing posi. then he whacks it. When I was playing with a straight arm I used to practice this drill and it worked beautifully. I think what it does is set a lag into the swing right from the start of the swing .....not from half way. It seemed to me that setting the lag from the start meant that it was easier to maintain for the whole swing. Give it a go.

[inthecup]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Good luck.

But we may have to change your handle to "Tin Cup."

I am going to take that as a jab meant without malice.  As I said I am relentless.  It will come if I kill myself in the process so be it.

I started a company in the beginning of  a recession and have experienced a second recession since then and I am still standing and doing well.

I am pretty confident I will get it not matter how long it takes.

[inthecup]

Originally Posted by logman

Check out a video by Martin Ayres. where he does a drill like this. I'll try to describe it accurately. So he sets up as per normal but puts his club head about 2 feet ahead of the ball(towards the target). Then he goes into his back swing.....dragging the clubhead across the mat like its made of lead and weighs 10 kilos. He drags the club on the inside of the ball and up into his full top of backswing posi. then he whacks it. When I was playing with a straight arm I used to practice this drill and it worked beautifully. I think what it does is set a lag into the swing right from the start of the swing .....not from half way. It seemed to me that setting the lag from the start meant that it was easier to maintain for the whole swing. Give it a go.

You are very interesting.  Have you ever gotten your hands in front of the ball as verified  by video and found the results to be not what has been described by dozens of people?  I don't think you have, I think you think it is impossible.  Weak, very weak.

Dude according to you are a 12 what is holding you back, you obviously know it all?

[logman]

Originally Posted by jclark

When you have stored lag on your downswing and your hands are 1" in front of the ball, your club head has a large distance to travel and your hands only travel a fraction in the time it takes for your clubhead to reach the ball; THAT IS TREMENDOUS CLUBHEAD SPEED! If your hand is 1" behind the ball at impact; your clubhead will be exceptionally slower than that of the previous scenario. Does that make sense?

No it doesn't. example 1: So you swing your club and lets say you have good lag coming into contact.....your hands are forward, your shaft angle is forward everything is hunky dory. Whack you hit the ball.....all good!

Example 2: so you swing the club and lets say you have good lag coming into contact......your hands are forward, your shaft angle is forward, everything is hunky dory......however instead of hitting the ball in a position where it was you've moved it 2 inches forward and you've "flipped". OMG !!! do you reckon that you've lost all the power because the clubs gone past your hands?

What's going to happen to the ball? its going to go a bit higher(good) with More spin(good).

[logman]

Originally Posted by inthecup

You are very interesting.  Have you ever gotten your hands in front of the ball as verified  by video and found the results to be not what has been described by dozens of people?  I don't think you have, I think you think it is impossible.  Weak, very weak.

Dude according to you are a 12 what is holding you back, you obviously know it all?

I try to keep my hands in front, with the bent arm swing lag comes from the elbow.

And If I don't get my hands in front the I've probably "flipped"...... big deal I reckon.....so the ball goes higher.....with more spin. Win,Win!

My point is that "flipping" isn't the destroyer of golf swings. If you build lag in your swing that power doesn't just disappear 2 inches later.

[jclark]

Flipping the ball is not good! It will cause nothing but a loss of power. You are increasing the loft of the club when you flip. All clubs are designed to have forward press at impact. Flipping and casting is just down right bad unless you want to hit a flop or high pitch

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

By boogie man I mean every few years there's a new "if you do/don't do..........(insert current boogie man here) then you can't hit the ball properly".

Nope. Flipping has always been bad. Again, basic geometry.

Originally Posted by logman

"compression" is just hitting the ball. I can't see how if you hit the ball with your hands in front of the ball then that's "compression" but as soon as the club head goes 1 inch past the hands, then OMG.......that's disaster!!.

Uh, yes, it is. Did you see the pictures above? You're now restricted from this thread because, once again, you've proven that you cannot respond to the information that's given to you. You don't seem to realize how bad "clubhead an inch in front of the hands" would be as an impact position.

Originally Posted by logman

Just on distance, Hasn't trackman showed us that generally, for amateur golfers with slower swing speeds that height in our shots is our friend as far as distance goes?

You're only trying to throw that in here because you were restricted from the other thread. The average amateur hits the ball too high because they DON'T have their hands far enough ahead of the clubhead at impact.

Originally Posted by logman

What's going to happen to the ball? its going to go a bit higher(good) with More spin(good).

It won't have more spin, and higher will rob the player of distance. The ball speed will likely decrease too, and again, the clubhead is likely ascending (basic geometry), so you will either hit the ball fat or thin unless you're just lucky enough to pick it perfectly (good luck).

Originally Posted by logman

And If I don't get my hands in front the I've probably "flipped"...... big deal I reckon.....so the ball goes higher.....with more spin. Win,Win!

Less spin, less compression, less ball speed, less distance, less clean contact (more fats and thins), more thrown about by wind.

Which one of those exactly is a win again?

Originally Posted by logman

My point is that "flipping" isn't the destroyer of golf swings. If you build lag in your swing that power doesn't just disappear 2 inches later.

If you have lag you aren't flipping. If you flip you've lost your lag prematurely. Basic stuff pal.

[inthecup]

Originally Posted by logman

I try to keep my hands in front, with the bent arm swing lag comes from the elbow.

And If I don't get my hands in front the I've probably "flipped"...... big deal I reckon.....so the ball goes higher.....with more spin. Win,Win!

My point is that "flipping" isn't the destroyer of golf swings. If you build lag in your swing that power doesn't just disappear 2 inches later.

So you have never experienced what you dismiss as BS.  Mad science there.

[jclark]

I'm starting to think most of the stuff logman says is to get a rise out of us! Arguing against all reason! P.s. I guess he has the right to believe and argue what he wants....

[boogielicious]

I think our Aussie friend has has been playing one long, elaborate April Fools joke on us.

[nondualistic]

Not seen this adviced anywhere but I found it really helps.

start swinging a club into an impact bag or old pillow using just your left arm or right arm, not both. This really stretches the wrists and gives a nice feel... really let the club load into the wrists (being careful not to injure yourself) and then wrip it into the pillow.

[inthecup]

Because of the weather I have only been able to get out and play 18 on my home course 2 x's.  My short game and putting is pretty rusty and holding my scoring back but my driver and iron game are in a better place for sure.

With Driver I had gotten into a place where I was all about controlling the club face.  It became stiff and controlled and short, very short.  By working on getting into a better position with lag and release I am swinging easier and hitting the ball a lot further.  I have some things I can do to get more distance but I am going to work on grooving what I have going on now before I try and add more to it.

With irons I also picked up a club or a club and a half of distance and the swing is smooth not strained.  The smoother I swing the farther it goes.  My shoulders, back and hips are taking less strain and my swing is just more controlled.

If your swing thought is pull hard with the forward shoulder to generate power I think you should get some good video of your swing and check your lag.  Rotating hard from the top destroys lag because the centrifugal force throws the club out, there is no way to stop it.  The position you want to try to get to is with the club shaft parallel to the ground when your hands are in from of your right thigh.  I am not quite there yet but getting closer.