Bob Costas attacks CBS Sports for Ignoring the Masters' 'Racism and Sexism'

[Chas]

Bob Costas has the right to make a fool of himself with his politically correct garbage as much as he likes, and we have the right to call him on it.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by phan52

But it's not promoting in the sense of "self-promoting". He's not doing a commercial for Bob Costas. He is giving his views on a myriad of subjcts, sometimes to the point of being a little out of context (like the gun thing during a football game).

It is what Costas does. The guy has no problem speaking his mind on any issue and anybody who knows anything about him would be aware of it.

He was on the Dan Patrick show.  Nothing against him for doing that, part of his job to go out there and make appearances, sharing his opinions on different subjects.  That is promotion imo.  Mentioning the Masters the way he did guarantees he gets his name mentioned on various media outlets, stirs the pot.  If he went on shows and was "boring", his brand would suffer.

[Wisguy]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Yes, Augusta has a discriminatory history when it comes to race and women.  Numerous, maybe every club built before 1950/60 has a history with these issues.  But Augusta has adjusted with the times.  The racism issue was obviously brought to the forefront when Tiger won in '97.  Lee Elder was the first African American to play in the Masters in 1977 and Augusta has women and members of various races.  I don't think the current membership of Augusta that runs the tournament or deals with club policy is racist and/or sexist.  If Augusta was still not admitting members that weren't white and male then that might be something to talk about but not during the tournament.  It's a golf tournament, it doesn't make sense to me to bring up Augusta's discriminatory history during a rain delay or the competition.  Especially since the club is evolving further and further away from those archaic views

Let's not dislocate an elbow or shoulder congratulating yourself on how "fair" and "evenhanded" your opinions are about those wonderful folks down at Augusta National.  You are forgetting that the Masters did not invite a black golfer until 27 years after Jackie Robinson played his first game in the majors, until 14 years after the PGA abolished the color barrier, until 11 years after a black golfer first won a PGA tournament, until five years after the second black golfer became a two-time PGA winner (source:  PGA's website).  Why do caddies continue to be required to wear the ridiculous white jumpsuit?  "Tradition?"  No.  Because "We can't make a white man wear one of those things so we're going to abolish them" doesn't have a very media-friendly ring to it.  Don't forget that until pros were allowed to bring their regular caddies to the Masters in 1982, EVERY single bag-hauler at the Masters was black.  I read Tolkien the first year that they invited a black golfer to the Masters and 1982 is probably the first year I purchased beer, so that's not so far in the past.

Off the top of my head, I cannot think of any other signifcant sporting event outside of South Africa that practiced racist policies as late as Augusta National did with the Masters.  Anyone whose knowledge of sports trivia is greater than mine, please feel free to jump in with some other examples.

People have a right to freedom of association guaranteed by the First Amendment.  That includes the right to form clubs and if they want to start a Rich White Male's Bigotry Club, they have that right.  But they should not be granted non-profit status for tax purposes (I acknowledge this is a tangent to the present discussion, but I maintain it is an entirely appropriate policy - taxpayers should not have to subsidize bigots).  And professional sports associations and the media should neither sanction nor provide media coverage for events hosted by clubs that employ or encourage bigotry.  The difference between any old club and August National GC is that the latter hosts one world's five or ten most broadcasts sporting events (it was shown in almost every country on earth this year) - it is a very public event because of the media coverage.  Exercising at Curves isn't a public event, so the analogy to an all-women's heath club is not apt.

If the major networks had agreed not to cover the Masters unless they abolished the racism, at least in the invitations and the ranks of the caddies, I guarantee that notwithstanding the Masters' Committee's traditional petulance about not wanting to be told what to do by anyone, they quickly would have invited Charlie Sifford and Pete Brown to their little April tournament (both two-time PGA winners by 1970 - Lee Elder arguably did not meet standards for an invite until after 1970).  If the TV dollars dried up, ANGC annual dues would have tripled or quadrupled and that, combined with the loss of prestige for the club, particularly if the tournament's status as a major was at stake, would have bothered enough members to have made the change unless such a change required some sort of super-majority vote.  As for accepting the first black member back in the 1960s - well, they may have drawn the line at that.

Bigotry will always be present because some portion of the population will always be weak, selfish, and filled with hate.  But if you irradicate public bigotry, you will significantly reduce bigotry everywhere.  I'm guessing that not a single person who is taking the "shut up with your whining about racism" position has ever been discriminated against by virtue of their membership in a class protected by federal civil rights laws.  I have been - my next door neighbors when I was a kid told their two sons (both within one year of my age) they were not allowed to play with me or even speak with me because of my ancestors' countries of origins and my differing religion.  I even had a teacher scream bigotted epithets against me and try to have me expelled from school.  Bigotry isn't a issue I think about daily or even weekly.  But it does become a big deal for me when I see people attempting to trivialize and minimize its impact on our society or who make derogatory comments about those who say bigotry is wrong.

Any time anyone on this forum brings up the topic of bigotry, a number of people get very antagonistic and upset over the person who is complaining about the bigotry, far more so could be explained by "This argument is getting boring and passe" or "Dude, you're beating a dead horse" (which sometimes may be the case) - if it's really so boring to you, then stop reading the damn thread and just ignore it.  The only explanation I can fathom for these very strong feelings of antagonism are guilt or anger that someone is criticizing something that applies to the angered individual himself - i.e. "Us bigots really, really don't like to hear anyone criticize bigotry."

Finally, yes, Costa's comment was a dumb one.  CBS beats it into its employees' heads that if they dare to let slip the words "fans" or "rough" instead of "patrons' and "1st/2nd cut" they'll be kicked off the Masters coverage team and will jeopardize the continuing exclusive relationship between CBS and the Masters.  Ask Gary McCord (forget offending the Masters' decorum - his real "crime" was offending people with beyond a double-digit IQ who understand basic concepts of humor).  Of course no CBS announcer will dare disparage the Masters, its traditions and its history, unless he is planning on imminent retirement.

PS.  For those of you lamenting being exluded from membership at Curves, I bet if you shaved especially close, put on a wig, some lipstick and mascara, and pink sweats, you'd be able to get at least a free trial - you would likely be more attractive than some of the women I've seen walking in to one of our local Curves locations.

[noSnowman]

[ G entlemen O nly L adies F orbidden

[sacm3bill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Why do caddies continue to be required to wear the ridiculous white jumpsuit?  "Tradition?"  No.  Because "We can't make a white man wear one of those things so we're going to abolish them" doesn't have a very media-friendly ring to it.

I'm having a hell of a time understanding why you're saying they wear white jumpsuits. Can you rephrase?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisguy

I'm guessing that not a single person who is taking the "shut up with your whining about racism" position has ever been discriminated against by virtue of their membership in a class protected by federal civil rights laws.

Bill Cosby disagrees with you. Other black leaders feel the same way. They feel that the constant reminders of racism, especially when it isn't there, only hinders the process of moving past it.

Quote:

PS.  For those of you lamenting being exluded from membership at Curves...

No one has lamented exclusion, they were simply showing an example of it. But I think you knew that.

[onephenom]

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Let's not dislocate an elbow or shoulder congratulating yourself on how "fair" and "evenhanded" your opinions are about those wonderful folks down at Augusta National.  You are forgetting that the Masters did not invite a black golfer until 27 years after Jackie Robinson played his first game in the majors, until 14 years after the PGA abolished the color barrier, until 11 years after a black golfer first won a PGA tournament, until five years after the second black golfer became a two-time PGA winner (source:  PGA's website).  Why do caddies continue to be required to wear the ridiculous white jumpsuit?  "Tradition?"  No.  Because "We can't make a white man wear one of those things so we're going to abolish them" doesn't have a very media-friendly ring to it.  Don't forget that until pros were allowed to bring their regular caddies to the Masters in 1982, EVERY single bag-hauler at the Masters was black.  I read Tolkien the first year that they invited a black golfer to the Masters and 1982 is probably the first year I purchased beer, so that's not so far in the past.

Yes, let's ignore that things have changed. We should continue to complain about the past, that way we can continue to make them look bad for the rules of the past.

"so that's not so far in the past".... when is it far enough in the past that it's time to stop calling them out?

[Wisguy]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Bill Cosby disagrees with you. Other black leaders feel the same way. They feel that the constant reminders of racism, especially when it isn't there, only hinders the process of moving past it.

No one has lamented exclusion, they were simply showing an example of it. But I think you knew that.

I meant to include the word "here" as in "not a single person here on this forum" but I already corrected a mistake and apparently I cannot go back and edit something twice because of the site's rules or functioning.  Yes, I'm well aware of Cosby's often very appropriate line of criticism but my point was meant to apply on an "every one" basis only to the TST members; I think it applies to most but not all of the rest of the population.  When one is as verbose as I sometimes can be, it's hard to catch everything.

I'm betting at least one of the members here taking the loudest/toughest he-man, smack-down-those-damn-Nancies stance has at least once, secretly, tried on some lipstick and pantyhose and has actually had the thought of sneaking into a Curves enter his head.  Go ahead Chip or Brock or Bubba, admit it, you've got a slinky little black dress with matching stockings and a garter belt hiding behind that false panel in the back of your closet.

========

Onephenom, of course there needs to be a moratorium on condemning past discrimination.  My post wasn't intended to say "We can't ever move past what happened," it was to say "If you're going to bring up the past, don't trivialize, minimalize, or whitewash it."  Otherwise it becomes a vicious circle.  Someone should educate the younger generations about what happened in the not-too-distant past.  Who should do that?  Should it be Bob Costas?  How often does it need to be brought up again?  I don't know - those are good questions and I don't have an answer to the latter question better than "At least once in a while but not too often."

[zwlee12]

As much as I like Bob Costas as a reporter, he needs to shutup

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Bill Cosby disagrees with you. Other black leaders feel the same way. They feel that the constant reminders of racism, especially when it isn't there, only hinders the process of moving past it.

No one has lamented exclusion, they were simply showing an example of it. But I think you knew that.

I meant to include the word "here" as in "not a single person here on this forum" but I already corrected a mistake and apparently I cannot go back and edit something twice because of the site's rules or functioning.  Yes, I'm well aware of Cosby's often very appropriate line of criticism but my point was meant to apply on an "every one" basis only to the TST members; I think it applies to most but not all of the rest of the population.  When one is as verbose as I sometimes can be, it's hard to catch everything.

That's fair. (Btw, I think you can edit as often as you like but not past a certain time limit... 5 min? 10?)

I guess I'd just ask why it's ok for those like Cosby to want to move on from our country's racist past, but not for those of us on TST to ask for the same thing.

[Wisguy]

Sacm3bill, I think Cosby's position is "Don't sit there blaming your situation in life on what happened a century and a half ago and expect that the government should pay some sort of damages or stipend to those whose great, great, great, great, grandfathers were slaves - get off your *ss, get an education, work hard, make something of your life.  The opportunities are out there, do something with them rather than just sit there complaining about the past."  That's not the same thing as saying "The problems from the not-so-distant past actually did exist and don't try to sugar coat them because you don't like to cast your heroes in a less-than-positive light," which I believe is what we're discussing in this thread.  No one is saying that Augusta National needs to start admitting chumps as members or inviting them to play in the Masters.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Onephenom, of course there needs to be a moratorium on condemning past discrimination.  My post wasn't intended to say "We can't ever move past what happened," it was to say "If you're going to bring up the past, don't trivialize, minimalize, or whitewash it."  Otherwise it becomes a vicious circle.  Someone should educate the younger generations about what happened in the not-too-distant past.  Who should do that?  Should it be Bob Costas?  How often does it need to be brought up again?  I don't know - those are good questions and I don't have an answer to the latter question better than "At least once in a while but not too often."

The question becomes how do you educate younger generations about this part of our countries past without invoking all the negative and hurtful emotions associated with those times.  I'm not suggesting we forget the past or sweep it under the rug but there needs to be time to heal.

The media (including Costas) goes out of their way to exploit these emotions for their own gain (ratings, ad sales, personal promotion) on a regular basis .  People are murdered every day in this country, yet the media only reports the murders that will garner the most attention, which usually involves some sort of hate crime.  I don't believe the media does anything by accident, everything is calculated from the leading news story to the weather report to attract viewers.

Costas took a cheap shot at ANCC because they are an easy target and a way for him to get some public attention for his show and brand.

[14ledo81]

I'm betting at least one of the members here taking the loudest/toughest he-man, smack-down-those-damn-Nancies stance has at least once, secretly, tried on some lipstick and pantyhose and has actually had the thought of sneaking into a Curves enter his head.  Go ahead Chip or Brock or Bubba, admit it, you've got a slinky little black dress with matching stockings and a garter belt hiding behind that false panel in the back of your closet. ========

Regardless of what I think of your previous posts, this does not help get your point of view across.

[onephenom]

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Let's not dislocate an elbow or shoulder congratulating yourself on how "fair" and "evenhanded" your opinions are about those wonderful folks down at Augusta National.  You are forgetting that the Masters did not invite a black golfer until 27 years after Jackie Robinson played his first game in the majors, until 14 years after the PGA abolished the color barrier, until 11 years after a black golfer first won a PGA tournament, until five years after the second black golfer became a two-time PGA winner (source:  PGA's website).  Why do caddies continue to be required to wear the ridiculous white jumpsuit?  "Tradition?"  No.  Because "We can't make a white man wear one of those things so we're going to abolish them" doesn't have a very media-friendly ring to it.  Don't forget that until pros were allowed to bring their regular caddies to the Masters in 1982, EVERY single bag-hauler at the Masters was black.  I read Tolkien the first year that they invited a black golfer to the Masters and 1982 is probably the first year I purchased beer, so that's not so far in the past.

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Onephenom, of course there needs to be a moratorium on condemning past discrimination.  My post wasn't intended to say "We can't ever move past what happened," it was to say "If you're going to bring up the past, don't trivialize, minimalize, or whitewash it."  Otherwise it becomes a vicious circle.  Someone should educate the younger generations about what happened in the not-too-distant past.  Who should do that?  Should it be Bob Costas?  How often does it need to be brought up again?  I don't know - those are good questions and I don't have an answer to the latter question better than "At least once in a while but not too often."

That doesn't seem to be the point of this thread. No one is saying that their wasn't discrimination. They have fixed / are fixing the problems with discrimination.

Based on what I first quoted, you're telling mvmac that he shouldn't defend ANGC with his "fair" and "evenhanded" comments. He isn't saying the 1950s ANGC was completely fair. He is defending them because they have fixed the issues... so what does anything you say have to do with this conversation? It appears more like you're stirring the pot instead of adding to the discussion.

[iacas]

So Wisguy likes to wear lipstick and dresses? Okay. Whatever floats his boat. :) They're not only a private club, they're a private club with white males, black males, white women, black women, and other nationalities too. But hey, let's definitely keep blaming the guys who are in charge now who weren't even members 40 years ago. That sounds like a good use of our energies. I guess I'll never understand wanting to get all pissed off at stuff like this, that doesn't affect you in the slightest. What's the point? To what end?

[JerryTimes]

What a fool he is!

[Iacethemall]

So other races can have their exclusive clubs but if it is white then it isn't right?  Easy way to settle this, Get rid of ALL private groups then.  There problem settled, lol, never will happen.

[Chas]

I guess I'll never understand wanting to get all pissed off at stuff like this, that doesn't affect you in the slightest. What's the point? To what end?

It makes some people feel better about themselves, morally superior.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Someone should educate the younger generations about what happened in the not-too-distant past.  Who should do that?  Should it be Bob Costas?  How often does it need to be brought up again?  I don't know - those are good questions and I don't have an answer to the latter question better than "At least once in a while but not too often."

I agree younger generations should know about Augusta's past, I just don't think having a dialogue or a Bob Costas "So Now You Know" segment during the tournament is the right way to go about it.

Originally Posted by iacas

They're not only a private club, they're a private club with white males, black males, white women, black women, and other nationalities too.

Correct and the Masters field is made up of golfers from across the world.  Look at the winners from the past 20 years and you'll find players of different races/nationalities.