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woltaire

Iron lengths

35 posts in this topic

I bought a bushnell seeker.

Yesterday I used it in order to determine my proper lenghts.

It was a bit of a surprise because it seems that I overestimated my lenghts like many amateurs probably do.

Apart from that I recognized an interesting fact.

With higher clubs the differences in my lenghts get less and less.

At the beginning there are 14 meters in the end just 5 meters difference.

See my table here.

Full swing lenghts: (five same balls used on every club)

Ball used: Wilson DX soft

Temperature: 15° Celsius humid air

Lobwedge:     70 meters    79 yards    (cleveland 588)                                                       consistant ball flight

Sandwedge:   84 meters    92 yards    (cleveland 588 rusty)                                              consistant ball flight

Gapwedge:    98 meters   107 yards    (cleveland 910)                                                      consistant ball flight

Pitcher:        106 meters  116 yards     (callaway x-forged 2007 notchback project x 6.0)     consistant ball flight

9iron:           115 meters   126 yards         "                                                                     consistant ball flight

8iron:           124 meters   136 yards        "                                                                      consistant ball flight

7iron:           133 meters   145 yards        "                                                                      semi consistant ball flight

6iron:           140 meters   153 yards        "                                                                      not very consistant ball flight

5iron:           148 meters   162 yards        "                                                                      some left some right

4iron:           153 meters   167 yards        "                                                                      some left some right

Driver:          ~200 meters   219 yards

I would like to ask for some opinions on this.

My thought was to leave the 4 iron away and switch to a hybrid.

Or to combine with another iron set and use the 6, 5 and 4 irons of a more forgiving model...

or even change completely to more forgiving clubs...

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Are those distances carry or total?

Either way those shafts probably aren't helping you. I haven't hit Project X 6.0 in irons but I have them in my 17 & 20 degree hybrids (graphite) and like them, but I carry my 7 iron 150 meters so am swinging quite a bit quicker. It's hard to imagine you're really loading them up if you're getting the distances above.

Replacing your 4 iron with a hybrid with a more suitable shaft should help you launch higher and get more distance. That would be a good place to start without needing to spend too much money.

If you can try out the Mizuno Swing DNA that would give you a good indication of what shaft profile fits your swing and how far off you are with the Project X 6.0s. From there you would have a good idea if just changing the longer irons or the whole set would be the most beneficial.

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how much loft does you 7 iron have?

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Nothing looks too unusual about those distances. Those close gaps you have with the longer clubs should lengthen out as you start hitting them better because it appears you start losing consistency as the clubs get longer (nothing unusual about that either).

You didn't say anything about having a club between the 4 iron and the driver but if you don't carry anything in that gap it might help you to add either a hybrid or a fairway wood. Then even if you start hitting the longer clubs better it would still fit in. In the meantime there are probably too many par 3s that you can't reach without trying to hit a driver on them and too many par 4s that you can't reach at all in regulation, so a fairway wood or hybrid stronger than your 4 iron would give you more chances.

If you do have Project X 6.0 shafts like Mordan mentioned I agree with him that more than likely that's not the right shaft. That's what I have in my irons and I wouldn't even post my normal iron distances on the Internet because nobody would believe me anyway (and I wouldn't blame them).

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Originally Posted by woltaire

how much loft does you 7 iron have?

I play Mizuno MP-57s, the 7 iron has 35 degrees of loft.

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My iron leng th s:

4 iron = 39.50"

5 iron = 39.00"

6 iron = 38.50"

7 iron = 38.00"

8 iron = 37.50"

9 iron = 37.00"

pw     = 36.75"

uw     = 36.50"

sw     = 36.25"

lw      = 36.00"

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In my case the distances are all carrie lenghts without wind.

I measured them in the evening when it was getting cold and the wind slowed down.

Everything without tee except the driver.

Today I took my 3 and 2 hybrid with me.

I have the fli-hi iron hybrids with regular steel shafts.

3 went 160 meters

2 went 170 meters

3 wood went 185 meters

I also tried to use the distances from yesterday during the game.

But in many cases I was too long.

Played the 4 iron from the tee 175 meters (total) because there was some wind from behind.

Hit a 9 iron with side wind from 124 meters and ended up behind the green...

Played my driver twice 205 meters against the head wind...

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All I see from this is that you are a fairly typical bogey golfer - that is, you are inconsistent.  Trying to make any sense of your numbers is just going to frustrate you.  You seem to be able to hit your 9I anywhere from 114m to well over 124m.  You would need to take an average of maybe 25 or 30 swings with each club, then use those average numbers to actually get an idea of what is really happening.  Also, unless you have a much better equipped range than most of us do, those range balls will not be as lively as a regular game ball, so they are going to usually give you smaller numbers.

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Originally Posted by woltaire

I also tried to use the distances from yesterday during the game.

But in many cases I was too long.

Played the 4 iron from the tee 175 meters (total) because there was some wind from behind.

Hit a 9 iron with side wind from 124 meters and ended up behind the green...

Played my driver twice 205 meters against the head wind...

Were you long because you landed pin high but ran out off the back of the green, or did you carry your shots over the green?

If you're playing on firm greens, especially if your ball flight is lower and has less spin, you may even need to land the ball short of some greens to get it to stop.

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I landed pin high or even before with the 9 iron but it ran away.

I played it from the semi rough so I guess it was a flyer...

All measured distances where done with the same ball flight.

If I hit well it is a high draw hitting first ball then ground.

It is true that I usually end up with 90 shots on 18 holes.

But I don't have the feeling that distance is a problem here...

I usually am there with two, just miss the fairways and green.

Except of those 420 yard par 4s where I have difficulties.

I also usually have three double or triple bogeys during my rounds.

The reason is mostly that I loose some balls from the tee.

Funny is that when I play with people they tend to ask me what iron I used and so on...

So I always thought to hit far. :)

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Originally Posted by woltaire

I landed pin high or even before with the 9 iron but it ran away.

I played it from the semi rough so I guess it was a flyer...

All measured distances where done with the same ball flight.

If I hit well it is a high draw hitting first ball then ground.

It is true that I usually end up with 90 shots on 18 holes.

But I don't have the feeling that distance is a problem here...

I usually am there with two, just miss the fairways and green.

Except of those 420 yard par 4s where I have difficulties.

I also usually have three double or triple bogeys during my rounds.

The reason is mostly that I loose some balls from the tee.

Funny is that when I play with people they tend to ask me what iron I used and so on...

So I always thought to hit far. :)

You might be a little on the shorter side on the internet, but in reality you're not. I've played with single figure handicappers who play similar distances to you.

I think different shafts might help a little, especially in the longer irons and giving you a little more holding power with the shorter ones. But those hybrids and the 3 wood give you options at the longer end of your bag and we're not talking a night and day difference if you make a change.

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My distances are very similar.  I hit my short irons really nice .. and far .. but then my distances get less and less proportional (and consistent) as the irons get longer.  If you saw me hit a gap wedge, for example . .the ball flight would be really high, a nice divot would go flying through the air, etc, etc . .you might think I could hit a 7iron 165-ish . .but no . . I hit my 7iron about 145-150 with more of a sweeping strike.  Working on that.

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I thought about a crazy thing with the shafts:

Would it make sense to blend the shaft flex from 6.0 to 5.0 and parallelly blend the iron head type?

Wedges: 6.5 flex    Muscle Back Head

Short Irons:      6.0 flex    Notch back Club Head

Mid Irons:         5.5 flex    Cavity Back Club Head

Long Irons:       5.0 flex   Fully motorized comfort irons

The aim would be to generate constant distance gaps between the irons and maintain the workability and feedback of shorter irons.

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Originally Posted by woltaire

I thought about a crazy thing with the shafts:

Would it make sense to blend the shaft flex from 6.0 to 5.0 and parallelly blend the iron head type?

Wedges:           6.5 flex    Muscle Back Head

Short Irons:      6.0 flex    Notch back Club Head

Mid Irons:         5.5 flex    Cavity Back Club Head

Long Irons:       5.0 flex   Fully motorized comfort irons

The aim would be to generate constant distance gaps between the irons and maintain the workability and feedback of shorter irons.

I can't really see the logic in intentionally choosing shafts that don't fit you. If you're going to re-shaft or buy new clubs you might as well find out which one suits you best and get that throughout the set.

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Originally Posted by Mordan

Quote:

Originally Posted by woltaire

I thought about a crazy thing with the shafts:

Would it make sense to blend the shaft flex from 6.0 to 5.0 and parallelly blend the iron head type?

Wedges:           6.5 flex    Muscle Back Head

Short Irons:      6.0 flex    Notch back Club Head

Mid Irons:         5.5 flex    Cavity Back Club Head

Long Irons:       5.0 flex   Fully motorized comfort irons

The aim would be to generate constant distance gaps between the irons and maintain the workability and feedback of shorter irons.

I can't really see the logic in intentionally choosing shafts that don't fit you. If you're going to re-shaft or buy new clubs you might as well find out which one suits you best and get that throughout the set.

The wedges typically have a stiffer shaft than the rest of the set, the reason being that the shaft is so much shorter that it has lost much of its flex anyway.  Seems a bit odd to me to deliberately make them even stiffer by using a different shaft.  Most iron sets I've ever had have had approximately a 10 yard gap between clubs, and that is set by a combination of face loft and shaft length.  The shafts are stepped at 1/2" increments, or they should be if they were built properly.  This setup has always worked for me, and I see no reason why you would change the shaft and head through the set (what the hell is a "fully motorized comfort iron" anyway?).  I want the same feel from all of my irons, and for that reason I have my AP-2's down to the GW, same rated flex and same feel.  My 54° and 56° wedges are the only ones in my bag which aren't part of the set.

I think that Woltaire is over-thinking and over-engineering this.

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Originally Posted by woltaire

Pitcher:        106 meters  116 yards     (callaway x-forged 2007 notchback project x 6.0)

consistant ball flight

Are all your irons the Callaway X-Forged w/ 6.0 flex? (IF not, please let us know head model and shaft type.)

If so, these are excellent irons, but can be a bit difficult to hit. Also, the PX 6.0 is one of the "stiffest" S flex shafts around.

One problem we golfers have is that there is no industry standard for shaft flexes: Regular or Stiff vary from shaft model to model in firmness. One metric that allows comparison is the Frequency Cycle Matching (FCM) measurement. Originally, the FCM was designed to make sure shafts selected for an iron set all had the same "flex" within that model. Now, it is used to compare different shaft models within and across manufacturers.

For example, the True Temper Dynamic Gold stiff shaft, the S300 has FCM = 5.8 / The PX 6.0, however, has FCM = 6.5, about .7 a flex stiffer. The KBS Tour stiff has FCM = 6.0 (center of the universe?)

Let us know which type of irons you have.

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I have three cleveland wedges.

The rest is Callaway X-Forged 2007 model all with 6.0 Project X shafts.

I even have a 2 iron of the Callaway Tour Forged model with a 6.5 Project X shaft. (got it for 20 bucks and thought it would be fun...)

This one goes about 200 meters (40 m roll included)...

I swing pretty fast and can generate some power...
Looking at me while I swing usually results in people saying that I swing fast...

Have a look at my usual swing rhythm:

I have the feeling that I could swing anything and it wouldn't change much...

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Sorry! I typed my earlier answer without my glasses on. I failed to see the " (ditto) mark underneath the Calla X.Forged for irons 9 through 4. So, I now know you play X.Forged for PW and below.

That said, X.Forged are a bit of a challenge to hit. But, club designer Ralph Maltby had rated the 2007 X.Forged in the Game Improvement Category - challenging but not impossible.

As M256 and Mordan suggested, you might want to get tested on a launch monitor to see what shaft you need. If 6.0 is just too stiff, then reshaft the irons or get a new set. If the 6.0 is within range of your needs, consider softstepping the longer irons.

You might ask a clubfitter to softstep irons 4 through 7. Softstepping makes the shaft play about 1/3 a flex softer, and might help you get more consistent ball flight, and a higher launch. Procedure:

  • Remove shafts from 4i through 7i
  • Insert 4i shaft into 5i, and butt trim to length
  • Insert 5i shaft into 6i, and butt trim to length... et cetera.
  • Buy a new 6.0 shaft tipped for 3i, insert into 4i, and butt trim

What you are doing is make the tip section more flexible by inserting a shaft tipped for the next longer iron. The shaft will feel smoother, and the ball will launch a bit higher.

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