Tobacco on the Course

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Its that type of, "Their smoke can't possibly bother anyone". That's the same type of response you hear from a person who's had to much to drink, "Oh i am perfectly able to drive". Then there taking out another car. Read up on 2nd hand smoke.

I agree ... that is EXACTLY the same thing.  Potentially inhaling a tiny fraction of a guys puff of cigarette that has dissipated some through the air for 40 feet is EXACTLY the same as being murdered by a drunk driver.

Hit the nail on the head!

[phan52]

Originally Posted by rehmwa

Yet 99% claim that they always use an ashtray, go outside and away from others to smoke, and never, ever throw the butt out of the car window or on the ground.

There's a disconnect in what they think and say they do, vs what they actually do.  Or, that 1% that doesn't care seem to stand at the entrance of every public building, and then run into the street to fill the gutters with butts and then light up and run to their cars so they can pitch a few more out the window in front of my car.  They must be very busy.

(It's REALLY bad, and it's bad everywhere.  But, because of this, whenever I actually, personally, see the rare smoker truly trying to be courteous in the ways the others just claim to, I'll go out of my way to thank them.)

I hate that. One day last week I was driving home from work on a nice day with the window open. Traffic was moving kind of slow and the woman in the car in front of me was flicking her ashes out her window and they were flying into my car. Disgusting.

The original poster was obviously talking about smokeless tobacco and, as long as they don't spit the crap on the golf course, I guess I am OK with them getting throat and mouth cancer.

[Wisguy]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

As a non-smoker, I tend to agree with this.  Not your take, but with the smokers sentiment that their smoke doesn't bother me, and if the smoke happens to be coming my way, rather than be unreasonable, I'll just move.

The least I can do is not give them shit about wanting to enjoy a cigarette or cigar outdoors.

(guys who toss their butts on the greens or tees when their done with them are another story though)

Years ago my wife and I spent a moderately large chunk of change on tickets for a blues festival and got there extra early so we could spread our blanket on a spot of grass in the perfect spot where we'd be near enough to the stage to get some great photos of the bands but not so near as to be deafening.  About an hour later as the first band started, other people around us wandered back to sit down and we realized that we were surrounded by smokers, not just a few, but dozens.  The smoke was so bad that we had to get up and move (causing some of these smokers to grumble because we were standing in front of their view of the stage for a few seconds).  By that time, the only space left was so far from the stage that literally we could not recognize the individual band members.  I've had to move many times at outdoor beer gardens or restaurants because some inconsiderate smoker came up and started blowing smoke near us.  Unless a person lights up in a specially designated area that is far from any non-smokers, any smoking in a public place, indoors or out, is inconsiderate.

I think the thing that most smokers (and their apologists) forget is that everyone has to breathe and many of us have allergies or respiratory problems that make tobacco smoke especially harsh and odious for us.  No one has to smoke - every single person who smokes either knew when they started or have known for decades that their addiction is extremely obnoxious to many people and unhealthy to all, yet they continue to smoke, to hell with non-smokers.  So when I hear smokers whining about their "rights" I have to ask why any of them deserve any privilege to smoke in a public place at all.

I don't get smokers who light up in their cars and then toss the butts out the window.  How is it that one moment they are putting the damn thing in their mouths and sucking on it like a thirsty baby pulling on an empty bottle, and the next it is so vile and disgusting that they cannot bear to have it in their car for one second longer and have to chuck it out the window?

[MPtheKid]

I don't think that the government should tell anyone whether they can or cannot use tobacco if they are of legal age. With that being said, I also believe that a responsibility comes with using tobacco. Tobacco users need to understand that not everyone views their habit in the same light. They should be respectful of others. As I said earlier, this is why I never spit on the course and carry a bottle with me to use. I do this for the same reason that I would not spit on the floor of a restaruant or home; I respect the other people present.

This becomes problematic for smokers, however. They are choosing to smoke despite knowing the risks of their habit. They can go outside or to designated areas to smoke, but second hand smoke can never be entirely avoided. What the appropriate steps smokers should take in order to be courteous of others that do not want to breathe second smoke are is a difficult question to answer.

As far as littering goes, just don't do it. Hold onto your cigarette butts and ashes until you can dispose of them properly.

[ridenemwild]

I understand the resentment of not wanting 2nd hand smoke bit at the same time smokers aren't allowed to smoke in so many places now that I think they enjoy the opportunity to smoke in outdoor locations. I know if I'm going to a bar or restaurant or outdoors location that allows smoking that I will in counter 2nd hand smoke. If you feel that strongly about 2nd hand smoke then don't go to these places. You are inconveniencing the smokers by complaining about their smoking as they are you by smoking. I think some of you take this issue too seriously. Remember that none of us are making it out of this world alive and will be remembered by how we treat others

[phan52]

Originally Posted by ridenemwild

I understand the resentment of not wanting 2nd hand smoke bit at the same time smokers aren't allowed to smoke in so many places now that I think they enjoy the opportunity to smoke in outdoor locations. I know if I'm going to a bar or restaurant or outdoors location that allows smoking that I will in counter 2nd hand smoke. If you feel that strongly about 2nd hand smoke then don't go to these places. You are inconveniencing the smokers by complaining about their smoking as they are you by smoking. I think some of you take this issue too seriously. Remember that none of us are making it out of this world alive and will be remembered by how we treat others

I feel absolutely no obligtion to smokers in a public environment. "Inconveniencing smokers"? Are you kidding?

We are curently having that debate at our club. Since we have a separate men's facility in a classic, historic building, it is quite an attraction to new members. We were allowing smoking on the nights of "men's day" in the lockerhouse/grill. I think the accommodation made it worse because people started making a point of coming on that night to be able to light up in an indoor environment, while it is not allowed virtually everywhere else in our state.

If it was just the actual smokers it would't have been so bad, but everybody all of a sudden became a cigar afficionado. It really got bad and we finally stopped it, to the consternation of a very vocal minority. They feel they are being "inconvenienced" and want to be "accommodated". Screw them, I want to be able to breath the next day.

[ridenemwild]

If you feel so strongly against 2nd hand smoke then why did you go to the clubhouse on the 1 night each week that they allowed smoking? You knew before you entered the clubhouse that there was going to be smoking. Why not wait till the next night or any other day of the week? I'm not saying you are wrong to hate 2nd hand smoke because that is your choice. Just like it is a smokers choice to smoke. The smokers where smoking on a designated night and you where upset that you went there and they where smoking.

[Wisguy]

Originally Posted by ridenemwild

I understand the resentment of not wanting 2nd hand smoke bit at the same time smokers aren't allowed to smoke in so many places now that I think they enjoy the opportunity to smoke in outdoor locations. I know if I'm going to a bar or restaurant or outdoors location that allows smoking that I will in counter 2nd hand smoke. If you feel that strongly about 2nd hand smoke then don't go to these places. You are inconveniencing the smokers by complaining about their smoking as they are you by smoking. I think some of you take this issue too seriously. Remember that none of us are making it out of this world alive and will be remembered by how we treat others

What you seem to fail to understand is that every human being on this planet has to breathe.

No smoker has to smoke - it's a purely voluntary and altogether unnecessary habit.  Smokers are the rude and inconsiderate ones - the overwhelming majority of them are the ones who treat others poorly.  I'd like to think that at the pearly gates St. Peter would be saying "Smoker?  Ok, well, we've got a spot for you down in the lower level lounge - you'll like how easy it will be to find a flame to light your cigarette."

Saying we need to stop invonveniencing smokers is about the same as saying we need to stop inconveniencing that guy with the airhorn who sneaks up behind you on the tee box and lets it blast right in the middle of your backswing.  Honestly, what's the difference?  At least the guy with the airhorn can say he gets a laugh out of it and laughing has been proven to be good for one's health.

[Wisguy]

Originally Posted by ridenemwild

I'm not saying you are wrong to hate 2nd hand smoke because that is your choice. Just like it is a smokers choice to smoke.

What an incredibly asinine argument.  I don't have a "choice" in hating smoke or being allergic to it (I get headaches, a sore throat, a stuffy nose, burning eyes, etc...)  any more than you would have a "choice" to hate it if someone came up to you and began slapping your face.

[ridenemwild]

The right to breathe has nothing to do with it. The point I was trying to make is if you knew before going to the clubhouse on that night that they where going to allow smoking the why did you go? You are perfectly free to go to any other restaurant in town because they don't allow smoking. Why would you purposely go to a place where there is smoking if you feel so strongly against it?

[ridenemwild]

I am also extremely allergic to cigerette smoke so if I know that a certain place allows smoking then I just choose to take my business elsewhere. If I happened to go to a public place where there is smoking then I just move away from it or leave. But just because you are allergic or dislike something doesn't mean you should say someone else shouldn't do it. I still say that nonsmokers making more no smoking zones and complaining are just as big of an inconvenience as smokers. How many guys here where cologne? I'm allergic to certain colognes and being near someone wearing it can cause me to have an asthma attack. Yet I don't jump up and down and complain if someone is wearing it and it bothers me. I just move or leave. It would be just as wrong to ask someone wearing a certain cologne to leave or move as it is to ask smokers to leave or move

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Years ago my wife and I spent a moderately large chunk of change on tickets for a blues festival and got there extra early so we could spread our blanket on a spot of grass in the perfect spot where we'd be near enough to the stage to get some great photos of the bands but not so near as to be deafening.  About an hour later as the first band started, other people around us wandered back to sit down and we realized that we were surrounded by smokers, not just a few, but dozens.  The smoke was so bad that we had to get up and move (causing some of these smokers to grumble because we were standing in front of their view of the stage for a few seconds).  By that time, the only space left was so far from the stage that literally we could not recognize the individual band members.  I've had to move many times at outdoor beer gardens or restaurants because some inconsiderate smoker came up and started blowing smoke near us.  Unless a person lights up in a specially designated area that is far from any non-smokers, any smoking in a public place, indoors or out, is inconsiderate.

I think the thing that most smokers (and their apologists) forget is that everyone has to breathe and many of us have allergies or respiratory problems that make tobacco smoke especially harsh and odious for us.  No one has to smoke - every single person who smokes either knew when they started or have known for decades that their addiction is extremely obnoxious to many people and unhealthy to all, yet they continue to smoke, to hell with non-smokers.  So when I hear smokers whining about their "rights" I have to ask why any of them deserve any privilege to smoke in a public place at all.

I don't get smokers who light up in their cars and then toss the butts out the window.  How is it that one moment they are putting the damn thing in their mouths and sucking on it like a thirsty baby pulling on an empty bottle, and the next it is so vile and disgusting that they cannot bear to have it in their car for one second longer and have to chuck it out the window?

Oh, I won't disagree with you on this one.  That is really unfortunate and annoying.  But I was purely thinking about it from a golf course example.  You're not stuck in one place for an extended period of time like you are at a concert.  On the golf course, I'm never going to be surrounded by more than 3 people who smoke and rarely for extended periods of time, and it would always be easy enough for me (not going to be presumptuous and speak for somebody who is allergic to tobacco smoke) to just go stand upwind of them.

[anthony]

I don't care if people smoke on the course, but don't put the thing out anywhere near the green. I think WTF?! when I see this.

I assume it's the same people whose ball marks I'm repairing on the greens.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by anthony

I don't care if people smoke on the course, but don't put the thing out anywhere near the green. I think WTF?! when I see this.

I assume it's the same people whose ball marks I'm repairing on the greens.

I "laugh" at this one because yesterday one of my playing partners had to fling a (seemingly) fairly recently extinguished butt off the green then almost immediately next to it repaired somebody else's ball mark.  We all agreed then and there that it was highly likely that the two were related.  Talk about a lack of consideration for others.

[MS256]

Second hand smoke? On a golf course?

Wow! Those courses ya'll play on really ARE crowded compared to where I play. Ha ha!

I don't like to breathe second hand smoke at all. For some reason it chokes me up more than all of the other toxic smoke and fumes I've breathed in all my life on the job as a welder. For some reason I can crawl down in a hole and weld for 8 hours in so much smoke that I can't see 3 feet in front of me and not even notice but somebody smoking a ciggarette 20 feet away in a room chokes me up.

(Can't figure that one out).

I figure all of that chromium and brass I've breathed will kill me long before the second hand smoke though. Plus the asbestos blankets we use to use to cover motors near where we we welding before anybody even knew that stuff would kill you.

Some of the guys that play in our Saturday game smoke but I've honestly never noticed the smoke while playing. On a calm day the wind is usually blowing 10 mph on that course so there's not much chance of the smoke lingering around enough to notice. The guys must do a good job of not leaving the butts laying around because I would notice that, but I haven't seen any.

[Dave2512]

I'm suprised our course hasn't burned up, pretty dry at times. I see patches of burned grass with charred butts in the middle all the time. Usually on tee boxes. I don't care if people smoke but that bugs me. I also see burn marks on the carts. That is why I don't like playing with smokers because it's not as simple as avoiding them when they're smoking. My experience is the dude dropping butts around the course usually is talking to you while he's smoking. Can only be subtle about trying to be far enough away to avoid the smoke so many times. Last smoker I played with lit one after another the entire time. Actually had a clip to hold lit cigs on his pull cart so he could take a shot.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by ridenemwild

If you feel so strongly against 2nd hand smoke then why did you go to the clubhouse on the 1 night each week that they allowed smoking? You knew before you entered the clubhouse that there was going to be smoking. Why not wait till the next night or any other day of the week? I'm not saying you are wrong to hate 2nd hand smoke because that is your choice. Just like it is a smokers choice to smoke. The smokers where smoking on a designated night and you where upset that you went there and they where smoking.

Because it is Men's Day and that is the day that I (and most members) end up hanging around in the evening. I've been doing it for thirty years, long before smoking began to get banned indoors. Eventually the club had to make a decision for health (and legal) reasons, but tried an accommodation that just made it worse on that one night. It is much better since they cut it out, attracts more members to hang around that night, and they actually are selling food now. Before, nobody would make the decision to order and eat food under an oppressive cloud of cigar smoke.

Heck, they should have made the accommodation on another night and it probably would still be going on. Doing it on the night of Men's Day is what killed it.

[MexBurtReynolds]

This Country was founded on tabacco.

I enjoy a few smokes during a round.  Played in a work tournament today, and there was no smoking allowed.  3 of 4 in the foursome were miserable.