My Swing (Mr Smell Good)

[Mr Smell Good]

I've been Playing Golf for: 10 years infrequently, 3 months consistent

My current average score is: 95

My typical ball flight is: i don't know how to answer this

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: missing center on iron shots (hooking especially)

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Videos:

[jimmyzl1]

Widen your stance, straighten your feet out, you're swinging from outside to in instead of inside to inside. Good hip rotation, but your weight transfer is bad. You look like you have a death grip on the club as well.

Just relax, spread your feet out more, straighten them out, and try to tuck your right elbow in more to create some more lag in your swing.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by jimmyzl1

Widen your stance, straighten your feet out

Please don't do either of those things. :) Maybe the stance can be a teeny bit wider, but don't "straighten your feet out."

[Mr Smell Good]

Originally Posted by iacas

Please don't do either of those things. :) Maybe the stance can be a teeny bit wider, but don't "straighten your feet out."

Widening the stance a little bit sounds good.  Maybe it will give me more balance.  Do you see anything else going on with the swing?

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

What I notice is how your hips rotate on follow thru. You are doing what it looks like expert golfers do, except that they don't move so effortlessly.

The downswing goes something like this: you open your hips to the target followed by shoulders and hands. But instead of pivoting the whole body like a dancer so you face toward the target in the follow-thru -- which is what you look like you are doing -- try posting your left leg, meaning straightening it so you have the sensation of hitting against your left leg as the clubhead impacts the ball. The power of the centrifugal force of your swing against your posted left leg is what drags your body around into the follow thru.

Again, the follow-through is not like a dance move, that you plan for. Instead, it is a natural and more or less uncontrolled consequence of the speed and power of the swing. You look like you are purposely spinning your hips into the follow-through as though you are in a golf ballet. How does this hurt your shots? I think it makes ball contact less predictable versus hitting against a posted left leg, which stabilizes the swing. br />
Another possible problem is this: your swing is on a rather flattish plane; nothing wrong with that. But your follow through with the club going high and then down your back is what one would expect from a vertical swing not a flattish swing. Is this related to the hooking? Might be, and might be related to a pronounced inside-to-outside and up clubhead path, instead of the normal inside to square to inside and around the body clubhead path.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris

The downswing goes something like this: you open your hips to the target followed by shoulders and hands. But instead of pivoting the whole body like a dancer so you face toward the target in the follow-thru -- which is what you look like you are doing -- try posting your left leg, meaning straightening it so you have the sensation of hitting against your left leg as the clubhead impacts the ball. The power of the centrifugal force of your swing against your posted left leg is what drags your body around into the follow thru.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/29616/the-biggest-secret-slide-your-hips

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

Lot of disagreement about the extent of the hip slide. There IS lateral movement of the hips. How much is the issue. And also what happens in the model golf swing is lateral slide + rotation + the release of the hands + the bending of the body into a reverse "C" as seen from the front.

Good link. But I'll quibble about one thing. At least some of the photos were taken not from dead in front of the golfer but from the front and a little to his left. From that position, rotation of the left hip backwards looks like it is a lateral movement.

By contrast, Mr Smell Good is not using a hip slide or post but seems to be spinning the hips into a model follow-through position. I think he is using a different muscle combination than should occur in the hip slide/rotation. The spin looks like it is on a horizontal plane and not around the spine tilt. I think he is using his thigh muscles lower down in the leg to produce this spin, and not the glutes & hip flexors.

But spinning ordinarily produces a slice and Mr SG reports a hook. There's something going on with the swing arc, and it may be the way that the follow-through is not symmetrical with the downswing.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris

Lot of disagreement about the extent of the hip slide. There IS lateral movement of the hips. How much is the issue. And also what happens in the model golf swing is lateral slide + rotation + the release of the hands + the bending of the body into a reverse "C" as seen from the front.

I don't know that that's very accurate. "How much" varies by the player and the shot they're trying to play, but the point remains that all good players tend to slide their hips forward, but poorer golfers do so the least or not at all.

Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris

But spinning ordinarily produces a slice and Mr SG reports a hook. There's something going on with the swing arc, and it may be the way that the follow-through is not symmetrical with the downswing.

It's highly unlikely that spinning more is the solution.

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

No argument there. You are the expert here. But what I think has happened is that Mr SG has a picture in his mind of how the swing finish should look, and he is moving to duplicate that picture. Hence the spin forward to a finish balanced on the front leg and on the toe of the back leg and with club pointing down the back.

I think he is not finishing his motion through the ball but is swinging inside out at the ball and then spinning and raising his club into the finish, whch basically does not complete the swing through the ball.

What I'd do to treat this is to have him focus his swing picture on the release and the idea of moving through the ball and what happens right after ball contact and get away from all preconceptions of what the finish ought to look like. If you swing all the way through the ball, the follow through takes care of itself.

When I was first trying to learn the golf swing, Johnny Miller was the superstar of the era and everyone was used to seeing his finish with his body bent into a bow, hands held high and club way down his back. So I tried to emulate that high finish -- even though I was being taught a flat hoganesque backswing! In general, the followthrough will mirror the downswing and this happens if you don't think about it. Here, I think that mental picture of the idealized follow through is causing a partially completed inside-to-out cut at the ball. Of course -- Caveat Listener! :)

[Mr Smell Good]

Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris

No argument there. You are the expert here. But what I think has happened is that Mr SG has a picture in his mind of how the swing finish should look, and he is moving to duplicate that picture. Hence the spin forward to a finish balanced on the front leg and on the toe of the back leg and with club pointing down the back.

I think he is not finishing his motion through the ball but is swinging inside out at the ball and then spinning and raising his club into the finish, whch basically does not complete the swing through the ball.

What I'd do to treat this is to have him focus his swing picture on the release and the idea of moving through the ball and what happens right after ball contact and get away from all preconceptions of what the finish ought to look like. If you swing all the way through the ball, the follow through takes care of itself.

When I was first trying to learn the golf swing, Johnny Miller was the superstar of the era and everyone was used to seeing his finish with his body bent into a bow, hands held high and club way down his back. So I tried to emulate that high finish -- even though I was being taught a flat hoganesque backswing! In general, the followthrough will mirror the downswing and this happens if you don't think about it. Here, I think that mental picture of the idealized follow through is causing a partially completed inside-to-out cut at the ball. Of course -- Caveat Listener! :)

Honestly, I think this is 100% spot on.  I could not have said it better myself.  The problem for me is this part " have him focus his swing picture on the release and the idea of moving through the ball and what happens right after ball contact"

Can you or anyone else elaborate on how i'm supposed to just focus and fix it?  Perhaps focusing on keeping my left arm straight at impact or something along those lines?

Thanks for the help!

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

There's a word they use now: "exit." The exit refers to what happens to your arms, hands and the club after you hit through the ball. I think it would help to think of that; not the follow through which is a matter of momentum and centrifugal force but the "exit."

Notice that word "through." One does not hit the ball and definitely not at the ball but through the ball, as though the ball you see is a shadow of a real ball an inch past the one you see.

IACAS demonstrated in his swing thread how he looks imitating Jim Furyk. A furykized swing. Notice his "exit." Furyk has a way of chasing the ball with his club face, of keeping the face square not for the instant it impacts the ball but for a longer time. Lee Trevino did that. Now neither Furyk nor Trevino have a swing you ought to imitate, except maybe in that way, right after impact. If you think about that, about the clubhead moving through the ball square and then the face closing as your wrists cross in a "release," it is a thought that can help.

The times I've tried to teach the golf swing I started out this way: I'd have the pupil hold a club loosely in a finger grip, one-handed, arm muscles relaxed, and then swing the club gently back and forth using the weight shift between the feet to move the arm and club. I'd have him feel the club face moving from square to open to square to closed, as well as the leverage that movement around the wrist gives. That I think is what you need, the feel of the club going from open to square and moving through the ball to closed. Especially that last, "through the ball to closed."

[Mr Smell Good]

Does this look like an improvement?

[BostonBrew]

You're stance looks much better, i.e. wider. Still looks like you're flipping at the ball though. I couldn't quite get the video to stop at impact so I'm only saying this based on your wrist action before and after.

[Mr Smell Good]

Originally Posted by BostonBrew

You're stance looks much better, i.e. wider. Still looks like you're flipping at the ball though. I couldn't quite get the video to stop at impact so I'm only saying this based on your wrist action before and after.

To work on that should I focus on maintaining that triangle with my arms after impact?

[BostonBrew]

Yes, absolutely. Here is a great drill from Michael Breed on how to maintain forward leaning shaft at impact. He uses it for chipping, but I believe the same drill applies to the full swing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeJY05E5rCY

Here is another one from Breed about where the arms and wrists should be after impact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvvMMZCNjdc

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris

Furyk has a way of chasing the ball with his club face, of keeping the face square not for the instant it impacts the ball but for a longer time. Lee Trevino did that. Now neither Furyk nor Trevino have a swing you ought to imitate, except maybe in that way, right after impact.

Not to pick a nit, but no they didn't. The face was rotating the entire time.