A cure for slow play

[BostonBrew]

Monday afternoon, Memorial Day, our front nine took 3.5 hours. There was a 5-10 minute wait on every shot. I didn't get frustrated because of it but just couldn't believe how slow the pace of play was.

And one of the guys I was grouped with kept telling me shot in the low 80s. His swing and game said otherwise. He blamed it on his inebriation. But he would try and go for every par 5 in two, hit terrible shots every time, and then march around like the world was against him. Because of how backed up the course was, it didn't slow us down, but had it been clear in front of us, it would have bothered me. He quit after 12 holes and the rest of my day was much more enjoyable because of it.

[AmazingWhacker]

Originally Posted by saevel25

But the issue is, what constitutes slow play? Its different for everyone. sometimes slow play for me might vary depending on the day. If i am playing bad or really into a round, or with good company, i don't notice waiting. It doesn't bother me. Some days it does.

honestly i would never walk off the golf course, i paid for the round, i am damn well going to play the full round.

Well people stand over the golf ball to long because they have to many damn thoughts in there head, that's just being an amateur :p

The major violators i see are the guys who think they can reach the green 250 yards away when they can only drive the ball 200 yards. Yea, that's an issue. Really i hardly ever find someone who takes forever on a shot. the problem with slow play is the cluster effect. Everyone standing around watching someone else hit. Go find your own ball and get ready, geeze. I understand if your ball is ahead of another person, but play some sort of ready golf.

Besides that, pace of play is just relative to the level of golf people played for the day. Its golf, its played by multitudes of playing levels. If you can't deal with the slow pace, then learn to deal with it. If not, then get angry, and piss your round of golf good by. No sense in getting upset. If your planning on something else that day, oops, tough luck on that one, should have realized golf can actually take a long time in some cases.

In my opinion - a round of over 4 hours constitutes slow play.  If the sun is shining and the birds are singing - stll 4 hours.  If you're the only group on the entire golf course - still 4 hours.  If you got paired up with 3 naked super models . . ok, will make an exception there, lol, but you get the idea.  4 hours is plenty of time to play 18 holes.  People can say that everybody needs to learn to just deal with slow play . .but even if it doesn't drive somebody off the course, it makes them less likely to return.  Not only is it a waste of time, it's boring to wait on every shot when the course is backed up.  Courses *should* want to fix this . .and it is, in my opinion, fixable.

The thing that really kills me about these "faux-pros" is that they don't even know what it is they're doing when they go through the intricate motions of thier pre-shot routine . .they are just copying what they see on tv.  Instead of visualizing the shot, rehearsing a particular ball flight -  or whatever it is that the pros are doing .. they are basically following a script . .stand behind it, drop arms to sides, stare meaningfully into the fairway, approach the ball, now back off, one more meaningfull stare out into space, 3 practice swings, a waggle (of sorts), etc, etc.

[ChuckDee]

Originally Posted by BostonBrew

Monday afternoon, Memorial Day, our front nine took 3.5 hours. There was a 5-10 minute wait on every shot. I didn't get frustrated because of it but just couldn't believe how slow the pace of play was.

And one of the guys I was grouped with kept telling me shot in the low 80s. His swing and game said otherwise. He blamed it on his inebriation. But he would try and go for every par 5 in two, hit terrible shots every time, and then march around like the world was against him. Because of how backed up the course was, it didn't slow us down, but had it been clear in front of us, it would have bothered me. He quit after 12 holes and the rest of my day was much more enjoyable because of it.

Low 80's after 12 holes....yep.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by BostonBrew

Monday afternoon, Memorial Day, our front nine took 3.5 hours.

If it ever gets to where it takes me 3.5 hours to play nine holes I will find something else to do. I have plenty of patience on the course for what I consider slow play (about 2 hours for nine holes is slow) but much more than that and I'll just go fishing.

[BostonBrew]

Originally Posted by MS256

If it ever gets to where it takes me 3.5 hours to play nine holes I will find something else to do. I have plenty of patience on the course for what I consider slow play (about 2 hours for nine holes is slow) but much more than that and I'll just go fishing.

Probably the worst part about it, we started at 3 pm so we could take advantage of the twilight rate. Our goal was 27 holes and dinner at 7:30. We walked off the course almost 6 hours later and only got in 21. I know it was a holiday but wow...

[bplewis24]

The problem with the proposed strategy by the OP is in it's implementation.  Let's see this through (assuming 4:15 requirement):

• 5 groups go out in 10 minute intervals, starting at 8:00AM.
• Theoretically, group #1 should finish by 12:15PM, and group #5 should finish by 12:55PM.
• Group #1 gets around in a 4 hour pace and finished at 12PM.
• Group #2 is getting around at a 5 hour pace.  At 12:25 (their finishing deadline), they are on the 15th fairway.  The marshal then proceeds to escort them off the course.
• Groups #3-5 are necessarily behind their pace at least as much as Group #2 was, assuming they kept their spots directly behind them (let's assume they did).

The dilemma: Now groups 3-5, who were only behind pace because of group #2 and therefore earn a reprieve while group #2 is visible, can no longer use group #2 to justify their slow pace.  So theoretically they can either finish the final holes as slowly as they want and never be penalized, or ...???

This is to say nothing of groups 6-the rest of the entire day which may be affected by the one stinkin' group slowing everything down.  The strategy ruins the ability to time the rest of the groups as soon as one group falls significantly behind page because it's based on a start time and a deadline finish time.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker

In my opinion - a round of over 4 hours constitutes slow play.  If the sun is shining and the birds are singing - stll 4 hours.  If you're the only group on the entire golf course - still 4 hours.  If you got paired up with 3 naked super models . . ok, will make an exception there, lol, but you get the idea.  4 hours is plenty of time to play 18 holes.  People can say that everybody needs to learn to just deal with slow play . .but even if it doesn't drive somebody off the course, it makes them less likely to return.  Not only is it a waste of time, it's boring to wait on every shot when the course is backed up.  Courses *should* want to fix this . .and it is, in my opinion, fixable.

The thing that really kills me about these "faux-pros" is that they don't even know what it is they're doing when they go through the intricate motions of thier pre-shot routine . .they are just copying what they see on tv.  Instead of visualizing the shot, rehearsing a particular ball flight -  or whatever it is that the pros are doing .. they are basically following a script . .stand behind it, drop arms to sides, stare meaningfully into the fairway, approach the ball, now back off, one more meaningfull stare out into space, 3 practice swings, a waggle (of sorts), etc, etc.

Then you will probably be dissappointed more often then not. Cause honestly if you were not given a watch, i don't think you could tell the difference between +/- 15-20 minutes. Humans are horrible at experiencing time. Our focus, concentration, diverts us from being able to tell time internally. Its like running on a tredmill, you get in a grove, you can bust through 10 minutes like it was 5 minutes, you start watching that timer, and 5 minutes feels like an eternity. if you went out with out a watch and we timed your rounds, and asked you if they were slow or not, by your 4 hour metric, you would be horrible inconsistent, especially if your golf game fluctuates as well. If your having a bad round i bet you'd think 4h30 minutes would be playing fast, because you would be so into your round and not focused on pace of play.

If you really cared about golf, three naked super models wouldn't bother you :p

Honestly, i think a lot of you guys must have some weird demographics when it comes to golfers, because i hardly ever see anyone do what you say there in that last sentence. There is this one guy i play golf with, he will take two practice swings, back off, and visualize his shot, if he's uncomfortable he might back off again. But honestly, that takes less than a minute. really, all that hoopla about long routines is an illusions because your paying attention to it. The really time killers are poor play, lost golf balls, and waiting around watching everyone else hit when you could be getting ready to hit. I never seen anyone go over a minute from the time they select there club till they hit the ball, never.

to me i think most people just pay to much attention to slow play, and it just makes things slower, its like watching a clock tick on by, or watching water boil.

[ChuckDee]

Originally Posted by BostonBrew

Probably the worst part about it, we started at 3 pm so we could take advantage of the twilight rate. Our goal was 27 holes and dinner at 7:30. We walked off the course almost 6 hours later and only got in 21. I know it was a holiday but wow...

beers required

[JonMA1]

Originally Posted by clarkgriswold

SO, SO, SO agree.  I have played with more than a lot of shitty players that play ready golf and at a reasonable pace.

More often I find the biggest offenders to be the 20-something Backwards Hat "Dude" Brigade of pseudo-good golfers.  You know the type.  You may be the type.  Typically, 4 "dudes' or "bros" who dress like they can play and have the sticks that say they can play...then head to the bar and each come out with a cooler of Coors Light.  Then they proceed to each take a breakfast ball on the first hole since none of them "flushed one, bro" and battle it out for the best double bogey of the group.  All the while enjoing the finest of todays new country on their "smart phone" while playing.

On the third hole, a 550 yard Par 5, two of them pop up their drives 180 yards but proceed to wait for the green to clear before hitting their second shot.  One puts it in the 9th fairway, complete smother hook, the other a weak pop fly to right field splash down.  After the exchange of "dude!" disbelief they proceed to the the other two balls(15 yards ahead of them) who are using one laser range finder to tell them that they have 340 to the front.  Both pull 3 woods because "dude, DJ gets there from here ALL the time" and TaylorMade told them they have 17 extra yards to play with, so go for it.

An easy 5 on the 4th hole(a 142 yard par 3 from the whites but these players are too good for that, they are tippers) puts them over the hour and 1/4 mark for the front nine.  Right on pace!

After a 3 hour front 9, you can bet they refill their coolers and maybe do a shot of Jag at the turn which apparently has a negative impact on their hearing as they proceed crank up  the country tunes in their carts that is obviously helping their awesome tempo.  Guess how slow their back 9 plays out...cuz it's the tougher nine and they are now buzzing and bad.  More country music, louder, will probably help.  Right?

You get the picture.  THIS is the problem with pace of play...not beginners.  To me, it's the influx of sausage-fest NFL/NASCAR mentality mixed with the need to emulate what the they see on TV.

Thanks for the rant, I needed the laugh (Doesn't TST have awards for posts such as this?). I'm also glad you understand that just because some of us who are new to game of golf doesn't mean we are new to the concept of common courtesy.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by clarkgriswold

SO, SO, SO agree.  I have played with more than a lot of shitty players that play ready golf and at a reasonable pace.

More often I find the biggest offenders to be the 20-something Backwards Hat "Dude" Brigade of pseudo-good golfers.  You know the type.  You may be the type.  Typically, 4 "dudes' or "bros" who dress like they can play and have the sticks that say they can play...then head to the bar and each come out with a cooler of Coors Light.  Then they proceed to each take a breakfast ball on the first hole since none of them "flushed one, bro" and battle it out for the best double bogey of the group.  All the while enjoing the finest of todays new country on their "smart phone" while playing.

On the third hole, a 550 yard Par 5, two of them pop up their drives 180 yards but proceed to wait for the green to clear before hitting their second shot.  One puts it in the 9th fairway, complete smother hook, the other a weak pop fly to right field splash down.  After the exchange of "dude!" disbelief they proceed to the the other two balls(15 yards ahead of them) who are using one laser range finder to tell them that they have 340 to the front.  Both pull 3 woods because "dude, DJ gets there from here ALL the time" and TaylorMade told them they have 17 extra yards to play with, so go for it.

An easy 5 on the 4th hole(a 142 yard par 3 from the whites but these players are too good for that, they are tippers) puts them over the hour and 1/4 mark for the front nine.  Right on pace!

After a 3 hour front 9, you can bet they refill their coolers and maybe do a shot of Jag at the turn which apparently has a negative impact on their hearing as they proceed crank up  the country tunes in their carts that is obviously helping their awesome tempo.  Guess how slow their back 9 plays out...cuz it's the tougher nine and they are now buzzing and bad.  More country music, louder, will probably help.  Right?

You get the picture.  THIS is the problem with pace of play...not beginners.  To me, it's the influx of sausage-fest NFL/NASCAR mentality mixed with the need to emulate what the they see on TV.

Pretty funny.  Although 2 things:

1) I think the music thing is unrealistic, and

2) Realistically, they would require a 10 minute break while they all hit on the cart girl and buy hot dogs, bragging about being +2 on the front while omitting the 3 mulligans and 2 foot wedges.

[AmazingWhacker]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Then you will probably be dissappointed more often then not. Cause honestly if you were not given a watch, i don't think you could tell the difference between +/- 15-20 minutes. Humans are horrible at experiencing time. Our focus, concentration, diverts us from being able to tell time internally. Its like running on a tredmill, you get in a grove, you can bust through 10 minutes like it was 5 minutes, you start watching that timer, and 5 minutes feels like an eternity. if you went out with out a watch and we timed your rounds, and asked you if they were slow or not, by your 4 hour metric, you would be horrible inconsistent, especially if your golf game fluctuates as well. If your having a bad round i bet you'd think 4h30 minutes would be playing fast, because you would be so into your round and not focused on pace of play.

If you really cared about golf, three naked super models wouldn't bother you :p

Honestly, i think a lot of you guys must have some weird demographics when it comes to golfers, because i hardly ever see anyone do what you say there in that last sentence. There is this one guy i play golf with, he will take two practice swings, back off, and visualize his shot, if he's uncomfortable he might back off again. But honestly, that takes less than a minute. really, all that hoopla about long routines is an illusions because your paying attention to it. The really time killers are poor play, lost golf balls, and waiting around watching everyone else hit when you could be getting ready to hit. I never seen anyone go over a minute from the time they select there club till they hit the ball, never.

to me i think most people just pay to much attention to slow play, and it just makes things slower, its like watching a clock tick on by, or watching water boil.

I never said naked super models would bother me, lol.  I just meant I could understand if it slowed somebody else down . .not me, of course.  I would ditch them at the first possibility.

I agree with a lot of what you said . .but I still stand by 4 hours as the limit beyond which you are playing slowly.  Also - I have never played a round in 4.5 hours unless I was being slowed down by others.  Even when I was first starting to play - I would pick up to stay in position or keep up with my group - I don't think I was able to keep score for a complete 18 hole round for my first 2 years of playing.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker

Paying less for playing faster would just lead to golfers getting po'd when the group ahead was the reason they didn't qualify for the discount.

Paying less for slow play puts the honess on the course.  If there is a slow group backing up the golf course, they are looking at 40+ discounted or free rounds . .you bet they are going to intervene with that slow group!

As to your statement about slow play being impossible to remedy . .I disagree.  If a group is playing slow and is out of position, they should be warned a couple of times and then forced by a marshall to pick up thier balls and walk to the next hole and get back in position.  One course I play at specifically states that having to skip holes is a possible consequence of slow play . .but they never enforce it.  If greens fees were on the line, I bet they would.

Obviously would never ever happen in real life, but this is an awesome idea.  If everyone on the course pays less if the pace slows down below, say, 4.5 hour pace, you better believe that course has 4 ultra strict marshalls out at all times!  I'd pay a higher than normal rate (higher than normal given whatever the quality of the course) for a course like this, knowing no matter how busy the course I would never play a 5+ hour round!

[scv76]

saevel25 Well said, especially this part "The real (edited) time killers are poor play, lost golf balls, and waiting around watching everyone else hit when you could be getting ready to hit."

It has to be difficult for a player who seldom miss-hits their shots to watch a poor hitting player take 7-12 strokes on a hole; over and over again.

But that's not something anyone should complain about until a course posts a rule that says "no poor players allowed"..can you imagine?

Best advice to you is to not make any plans immediately after your golf round...maybe that way you will feel less obsessed with a time table.

Golfers, just like drivers on the roads need to lighten up about being in a hurry. Life goes by fast enough; you don't need to hurry it along.

The players I know of who want to get a fast round in usually do it in the early mornings.. Anything after about 9:00 A.M. is just asking to run into a slow day of golf.

And around here (So. Cal.), weekend golf is and always will be very slow.

Don't even think about it on holidays!!

[RayG]

saevel25 But that's not something anyone should complain about until a course posts a rule that says "no poor players allowed"..can you imagine?

Bethpage Black has that famous sign about it being for "advanced players", etc.... They started to enforce that with Rangers after the first Open... They patrolled and would either: escort you off and get a refund, or slot you in to one of the other courses. They might have eased off on THAT part, but people that don't belong will GENERALLY avoid it. It has it's reputation and that keeps them away. So on that course it isn't "poor or bad" players that slow it down, it's the supposed "better" players with the "pro" attitudes about their games. They still think they have to wait for the green to clear... from 320 out. "I've got a caddy, I'm a pro and can take however long I like.... I paid my $85 or whatever." 5 hours is probably a minimum most of the time. I caught a decent day last year midweek, midday and it was a tick over 5hrs. Now- We didn't wait for an excessive length of time at any hole. It was just the general pace was slower, but it was moving along. That I don't mind. What I don't like are the folks that think that it has to be 3.5 hours when they KNOW there is no chance of getting that. And there is no place to go. Constant hitting up close, and barely waiting for you to clear the green (or not sometimes) to hit up. Then screeching up to the next tee when you are up and getting ready to hit. You think I'm letting you guys go through when there's no place to go? Not likely.

[ToblaT]

The fastest cure for slow play would be if people would just stop deciding that anything over 4 hours is slow.

A few tips on how to not get bothered by rounds over 4 hours:

1. If you, before the round, decide that you have 5 hours to spare (which you should if you are going for 18-holes) then the rounds won't seem as slow.

2. Stop checking your watch while you play, it won't make it go any faster it will only make it seem slower.

3. For all of you who plays worse if you have to wait on the group before you, do everything a tiny bit slower. If walking to your ball takes you 30 sec, walk slower so it takes 40. If your pre-shot routine takes 20 sec, make an extra wiggle and make it take 25. If making a putt takes 15 sec, role-play a pro and take 1 min to do it.

4. Before starting a hole you can take a breather, maybe drink some water or make some swings with your driver.

5. If none of the above works for you, open a course yourself and the hang people who take longer than 4 hours.

Golf is hard enough without caring about minor issues like POP.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by ToblaT

The fastest cure for slow play would be if people would just stop deciding that anything over 4 hours is slow.

1. If you, before the round, decide that you have 5 hours to spare (which you should if you are going for 18-holes) then the rounds won't seem as slow.

When I play golf I typically have 10 hours to spare.  That doesn't make a 5 hour round seem fast.  It's still slow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToblaT

2. Stop checking your watch while you play, it won't make it go any faster it will only make it seem slower.

I don't have a watch.  Slow is slow.  Waiting for 5-10 minutes on a tee box is still going to make everything feel slow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToblaT

3. For all of you who plays worse if you have to wait on the group before you, do everything a tiny bit slower. If walking to your ball takes you 30 sec, walk slower so it takes 40. If your pre-shot routine takes 20 sec, make an extra wiggle and make it take 25. If making a putt takes 15 sec, role-play a pro and take 1 min to do it.

This doesn't seem like good advice.  We're now compounding the problem by encouraging folks to partake in bad habits, turning them into slow players.  We should be trying to fix the habits of the slow players instead.

[ToblaT]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

When I play golf I typically have 10 hours to spare.  That doesn't make a 5 hour round seem fast.  It's still slow.

I don't have a watch.  Slow is slow.  Waiting for 5-10 minutes on a tee box is still going to make everything feel slow.

Try doing the third one once, it might take the edge of the slowness at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToblaT

3. For all of you who plays worse if you have to wait on the group before you, do everything a tiny bit slower. If walking to your ball takes you 30 sec, walk slower so it takes 40. If your pre-shot routine takes 20 sec, make an extra wiggle and make it take 25. If making a putt takes 15 sec, role-play a pro and take 1 min to do it.

This doesn't seem like good advice.  We're now compounding the problem by encouraging folks to partake in bad habits, turning them into slow players.  We should be trying to fix the habits of the slow players instead.

I'm all for fixing the bad habits slow players have, but until that happens (never) there's not much to be done other than to slow down your own pace if you are caught behind some of the slower players. If slow play is ruining your play, and not just your mood, then you really should think about how to slow down instead of getting all flustered over the pace of play.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by ToblaT

but until that happens ... there's not much to be done other than to slow down your own pace if you are caught behind some of the slower players.

I agree.  However, depending on circumstances I'll do this in different ways.  If nobody is behind me I'll hit extra putts or chips on the green after I hole out, or perhaps play a 2nd ball (I play as a single a lot).

Or I'll take my time getting to the next hole, whether it's in a cart or walking.  But when I get there, I simply wait.  I don't want to change up my pre-shot routine and start having bad habits.  If anything, (like this past weekend where I had 10 minute waits at every tee), I will sit/lay somewhere for 8 minutes and relax and then spend 2 minutes warming up preparing for when I'm clear to tee off.